Big landslide in Big Sur
- Thread starter MAKG1
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Sure thing, I can understand why you would. . .you live in CA (I presume); and I think "fairly accurate" would lead me to beleive the numbers have enough slop to fall ouside the 1% tolerance amount that CA is being short changed on.You're trying to counter data with plausibility arguments. I remain unconvinced.
Did you even LOOK at the sources cited in the article?
https://osc.state.ny.us/reports/budget/2015/fed_budget_fy2013.pdf
That was the data that the Legislative Analyst's Office based their bar chart on, and the Howard Jarvis Taxpayer's Association thinks it's "fairly accurate."
As for the military spending, one of the sources cited makes it clear that this was taken into account. Of the five categories of federal spending accounted for, military spending enters into two of them:
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/researc...3/federal-spending-in-the-states-2005-to-2014
- Contracts for purchases of goods and services, from military and medical equipment to information technology and catering services. Defense purchases account for two-thirds of federal contracts.
- Salaries and wages for federal employees. Roughly two-thirds of this spending is for civilians, and one-third is for military personnel.
You say you don't have an incentive to make a study of it. The organizations and governmental bodies cited in the article HAVE made a study of it, so I hope you will understand why I give their data more weight than your doubts.
donjohnston
Pattern Altitude
And what if you're not home? What if you're driving on a bridge that collapses underneath you? Or on the 8th floor of an office building?
At least with a hurricane, we get a couple days warning and we can leave. I've never lived in a tornado area, but I think they get a little warning so they can try and take cover.
Seems to me every earthquake is pretty much a surprise.
The New York State Comptroller DOESN'T live in California!
And the issue is not a 1% shortfall, it's a 19% shortfall. That's how far California is below the national average in feeding from the federal trough.
More attempts to counter data with plausibility arguments.
The issue is the difference between the above number and the amount California pays (which you omitted for some reason), compared to the national average (which you also omitted)."
California gets 99 cents for every dollar paid. The national average is to get $1.22 for every dollar paid.
MAKG1
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MAKG
This is amazing.
EVERY statement is out of date, misquoted, or just wrong. You almost have to try to do that badly.
I'll give just one example, as proofreading every single reality-challenged post of yours is far outside my job description.
A single payer bill is starting debate right now. If you don't know how far that is from "passing," go back to Civics 101. It's not likely at all to pass both houses and the governor's desk.
I admit to doubting the plausibility of CA being under-fed from the Fed trough; Also, I admit I do not/not have the data or depth of knowledge to refute (or confirm) that is the case. But my knee-jerk reaction is the numbers you quoted are: 1. A estimate, with a probability of error probably about equal (or greater) than the short-fall you claim. 2. Why should CA expect to get a re-infusion of every dollar the Fed collects from CA, every year? 3. Without bothering to dig deeper, I wonder, for example, how that Fed subsidized higher education trough is being used by CA residents?
You say the reporting isn't a spin job, and every impact of Fed spending is accounted for? I dunno. . .
You say the reporting isn't a spin job, and every impact of Fed spending is accounted for? I dunno. . .
Morgan3820
Ejection Handle Pulled
OK setting facts aside, as that can go round and round forever. How about I do not like the values Kalifornia exports and its oversized influence that it has on the rest of us via Hollyweird and other media outlets. I feel that while I try to mitigate the influence, Kalifornia makes my job to raise a morally balanced Daughter harder than it has to be. That is why I want it to slide into the ocean. See no facts to dispute, easy-peasy.
I didn't say we should. I'm just saying that the whining about how much California is getting or might get in the future is not consistent with the available data.
I doubt that the Jarvis Foundation would be endorsing it if it were a spin job; I'm pretty sure that it is not composed of people who believe in unrestrained government spending. And I don't see what incentive the New York State Comptroller would have to spin things in California's favor.
As for whether "every" impact of federal spending is accounted for, I haven't said that either, but I'm pretty sure that the people who have come up with these numbers have done a heck of a lot more digging into it than you or I have the time or expertise for.
You seem to be saying that the data might not be accurate, and therefore we should just ASSUME that the errors come out in a direction that favors your opinion.
I want YOUR state to slide into the ocean. No fact to dispute, nor any reasons. Even easier.
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
I live in fear that New Mexico will slide into Denver....
Tantalum
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San_Diego_Pilot
Yikes..
RE: budget: it's a well known thing that politicians don't spend money well, that's not unique to CA. But again, this has no direct impact on my life. As much as I hate to say it I consider the taxes I pay (and no, I don't get money back at the end of the year) pretty reasonable for what I get in return. You'll also find that CA adds a lot to the US economy, both as a percentage but also in the tech and sciences field
A lot of folks don't understand CA. I was one if them. I grew up in the NE and moved out here several years ago (story for another time). Everyone kept telling me about the earthquakes and how much better snowstorms, hurricanes, etc are since you get a warning. Frankly, I don't miss any of that weather one bit. I've had extended family living here since the 80s and they've never been "devastated" by a quake. Heck, many of the homes around the SD suburbs are built in the 1950s and are still standing. CAN a serious quake happen and CAN it seriously ruin your day? Absolutely.. but I'll take that (low) risk any day in favor of the quality of life. I don't have the data next to me but I'm reasonably confident that tornadoes, floods, snowstorms, hurricanes, in the US have cost a lot more $$ and lives than CA quakes...
I enjoy tracking the US geology site.. many of the "thousands" of earthquakes aren't felt. The last one I "felt" I honestly wasn't sure if it was just the house settling until I checked the website. Most buildings are also built to strict coding for that. I feel reasonably safe in the newer office/condo buildings
Ouch. I don't get the "K" spelling... and no one is forcing anyone to watch a movie they don't want or listen to/watch media they're not interested in, etc. California, at least in my experience, is far more libertarian "live and let live" than any other state I've lived in or spent any meaningful time in. I don't agree with a lot of things CA does, but I feel like my individuality is far less threatened here than some place else. It's also not all #LAlife... and Bay Area tech elites, if you want to be around like minded people there are towns and cities here to suit just about everyone, everything from downtown lux condos to wide open sprawling ranches, farmland, deserts, etc. I haven't lived anywhere else that gives me that freedom
RE: budget: it's a well known thing that politicians don't spend money well, that's not unique to CA. But again, this has no direct impact on my life. As much as I hate to say it I consider the taxes I pay (and no, I don't get money back at the end of the year) pretty reasonable for what I get in return. You'll also find that CA adds a lot to the US economy, both as a percentage but also in the tech and sciences field
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denverpilot
Tied Down
You might want to look at the makeup of the Congresscritters and Senators y'all send to D.C. -- if you're Libertarian, it doesn't show up in who and what you're exporting.
Over fifty representatives with almost 3 out of 4 squarely leftists, and both Senators since 1992.
By comparison with my State, only seven and a 4:3 split, and a 1:1 split on Senators.
The "K" spelling is well deserved. California isn't libertarian. It's not even close to balanced between the two major cults.
Even if my home state were completely against California's leftist masses, it would take five Colorados to stop the current California cabal in Congress.
WELL deserved, that K. You're crazy if you think Kalifornia is Libertarian. Hahaha. That's almost side-splittingly funny.
You guys export massive leftist statist votes on the national stage that anywhere balanced, like here, has to deal with somehow. 40 of them out of your 54 national politicians and votes, at current count. We're at 4 out of our 9.
We're going to get slapped for talking politics here, but this post was simply meant as an explanation for your question. The math doesn't support your assertion of Libertarian bent. Your national delegation is 74% leftist. And it's massive compared to my home State.
Kalifornia hasn't sent a balanced delegation to national politics since before I was born. And I have plenty of grey hair. It went even further left in the early 90s.
If y'all are Libertarian you sure have a funny way of showing it. Ha.
Morgan3820
Ejection Handle Pulled
Why? Just because? Typical KA. I offered valued reasons for my position that Kalifornia is a virus on the country and you respond with nanny, nanny boo boo? Mature? Not. Without looking at my bio, signature do you even know what state I live in? You need therapy to accept the fact that a lot of people share my position.
You appear to be using the state's political makeup to defend California-bashing.
California is libertarian but not Libertarian. The latter seem to have sold out to one of the two major "cults," as you call them.
Don't worry, California gets the shaft by having two senators to represent 39 million people, vs. Colorado's two senators to represent 5.5 million. So much for one man one vote. Politically, I think you should reconsider who is exporting what to whom.
You're krazy if you think Libertarians are libertarian. Some of the positions they have endorsed do a good job of demolishing that notion.
The right favors their own version of statist votes, like trying to get governments to tell people who they can marry, for example, and even telling people of certain religions that they are not welcome in Amerika.
If you don't want to get slapped for talking politics, then I suggest that you quit using politics to justify California-bashing.
You offered reasons, but you endorsed ignoring facts. If doing the latter is justifiable, then so is the former. As for knowing what state you're in, your location is displayed at the left of every post. Is noticing that off-limits, for some reason?
You "need therapy" to accept the fact that we live in a diverse nation, and that happens to be one of its great strengths. The apparent assumption that everyone here agrees with your religious or political views is out of touch with reality.
As for my reasons, every time someone mentions California, the narrow-minded and self-righteous take that as a cue to engage in California-bashing. It gets tiresome, it's petty, and if it's OK to bash my home, then it's OK to bash your home. There should be no double-standard on obnoxious behavior.
Click on the user name of the person you want to ignore, and it will appear on the right-hand side of the screen.
donjohnston
Pattern Altitude
Senators don't represent the people of the state. They represent the state.
However you want to characterize it, and independently of whether you think it's right or wrong, it means that a voter in a large state has less influence on the course of the nation than a voter in a small state.
I just find it ironic and amusing that a post about a landslide continues to slide (figuratively speaking).
donjohnston
Pattern Altitude
This is not me characterizing it. This is about how James Madison characterizes it.
And the voter in a large state has the exact same influence as one in a smaller state through their representative in the House.
The House of Representatives is also referred to as "The Peoples House" while the the Senate acts as a check against more populous states forcing their will on smaller less populous states. The original intent was that Senators would be selected by the Governor or assembly of each state to represent the interest of the state.
Unfortunately, the 17th amendment changed all of this so now we have career senators who instead of acting as a representative to the state merely do whatever they can to get re-elected.
ircphoenix
En-Route
Saying corporations don't draw welfare is misleading and disingenuous. Corporations receive far more welfare than I.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Umm. Yes. Of course.
Not going there on this forum. I was responding to the preposterous statement that Kalifornia is libertarian. Nothing outside of California indicates this to anyone else who has to deal with the politicians you vote for, therefore -- untrue.
I did. I pointed out that our two Senators cancel each other out. This still leaves California at an advantage mathematically.
Again in the context of someone laughably stating that Kalifornia is libertarian, your complaint falls on deaf ears when you've sent all leftist Senators since a couple years after I was allowed to vote. I'm old and have grey hair now.
Again not the place for that conversation and also unrelated to what I was answering. It also doesn't refute what I said. Kalifornia is not libertarian. Little L or Big L, doesn't matter. Kalifornia is far-left. Pretending it's just an external problem that your politicians are mega-leftists but the people inside the warm chewy center are really libertarian is silly. Those people send the leftist forth to do their bidding. And have for three decades.
Again off topic. The question posed and answered was why does Kalifornia deserve its K and the answer is because that's what it's politics are. Both people and representatives.
I just answered the question. You seem quite defensive about it.
Kalifornia is simply not libertarian and it gets called Kalifornia to match the three decades of leftist votes. I'm not here to debate what a libertarian is and didn't even use the word "Democrat". I very specifically stuck to the worldwide accepted term, "leftist" to explain the math.
The numbers don't lie. Kalifornia is far left and has been for thirty years. 73% lefitist representatives.
It's really difficult to accept that a Kalifornian thinks a descriptive term like jokingly adding a K due to the flat out numbers involved, is "bashing".
How sensitive are you? Sheesh. Get over it. Want the K removed? Send a balanced political delegation out for the first time since the 60s. Otherwise it's just an apt and accurate nickname. It won't harm you. Act as "offended" as you like, you'll still wake up tomorrow. Kalifornia votes left. No big deal.
Even our balanced delegation from here is mostly due to the 2 MILLION California refugees who've moved here to escape the housing costs. That's literally half the size of the front range when I was a kid here. They mostly continue to vote left after they escape.
It's ok. We call them Koloardans.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
Here's one that's bucking the tide.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Like calling people narrow minded and self-righteous? LOL.
Bash Colorado all you like. I don't care. This bashing thing is a personal problem you appear to have emotionally. I may respond to lies, but hell, if your complaints keep more people from moving here, I may be quite alright with all of them. Even the lies. Haha.
ircphoenix
En-Route
Legalization of drugs?
Decriminalization of traffic offenses, felonies, and violent crimes?
Sounds like we're more libertarian here than people would like to admit.
Decriminalization of traffic offenses, felonies, and violent crimes?
Sounds like we're more libertarian here than people would like to admit.
N659HB
En-Route
Mods, can we get a lock on this thread?
N659HB
En-Route
Maybe we can get a lock if I say something about Nancy Pelosi?
Everskyward
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Everskyward
California and Colorado both have their plusses and minuses. In my case I'm comparing two specific properties so what I think is not relevant to the whole states of either California or Colorado. I will say that they are two of my favorite states. I'm glad many people hate California. It will keep people out now that I am moving there.
ircphoenix
En-Route
ircphoenix
En-Route
Also... I have nothing negative to say about any other state.
I have lots of negatives to say about my own state. But I wouldn't live anywhere else.
If you don't like California, don't live here. Housing prices are expensive enough.
I have lots of negatives to say about my own state. But I wouldn't live anywhere else.
If you don't like California, don't live here. Housing prices are expensive enough.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Here's one that's bucking the tide.
Sadly.
You arrived a long time before the mass exodus of the 90s I think. Even lived in a county with dirt roads outside the rat colony of Denver where most of the immigrants from California end up. Heh. I think you even predate "Highlands Ranch" the original California transplant colony,
complete with HOA Police patrolling the hood. Haha. Big malls that were the size of a small city, etc.
We'd never even heard of such a thing like that before that era started around here. Haha. Seriously.
Kalifornia exports more than just its politics. HOAs. Definitely a Kalifornia export to Colorado.
We heard stories of them from Kalifornia in the 80s on syndicated talk shows like Bruce Williams and the need to bring a lawyer to house closings and just laughed. (Bruce was cool by the way.)
Board of Idiots who thought they could tell you when to paint your house, or to fine you for not closing a garage door on Saturday afternoon? That crap will never happen here...
Yeah. We found out all it took was a couple million Kalifornians cramming themselves into some of the shoddiest built housing the State had yet seen at the time, to make that happen. Haha.
Lots of housing developments followed that mimicked Highlands Ranch, but it was definitely the original Kalifonicated hell neighborhood in Denver Metro. And it still pretty much sucks. Pretty little beige boxes.
denverpilot
Tied Down
We have those.
And oh by the way, "decriminalization" is just code for "You no longer get the right to a jury trial or to know your accuser" as it's implemented in most places.
Not exactly libertarian at all. Marketed as such, but not. It changes criminal law with its (venerable but avalable) checks and balances into a revenue generation Ponzi scheme.
Everskyward
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I moved here (Colorado) for the first time in 1979, and permanently in 1986. Although I moved from California, I was a transplant there too. I only lived there four years before moving to Colorado. I'm really from New Jersey, and not eager to return.Sadly.
denverpilot
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Hahaha. I've never met anyone who wants to return to New Jersey. And definitely never anyone who is overly-sensitive about anyone "bashing" it. LOL.
Everskyward
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At the time, I wanted to get out, and I stayed away for a long time (decades). When I finally went back to visit, the old neighborhood looked nicer than I remember it. There are nice parts of NJ, but still not eager to go back, LOL.
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
Does anyone else think that Pelosi looks a lot like Skeletor..??
What does the "K" in Kalifornia represent?
What does the "K" in Kalifornia represent?