BFR Question

[VWGhiaBob]

I completed the written portion of my BFR on the FAA Wings site. I completed the flying test portion with a full endorsement in my logbook.

In theory, my instructor would simply approve the flight portion on Wings, and all woud be good. Trouble is, he's having trouble doing so. He may lack computer literacy skills (he's an older guy) and he's no longer responding to my emails asking him to approve on-line as he did in logbook.

So my question...since I have proof of having completed both the written and the flight portions, am I good? Should I print out the completion credits from the on-line FAA Wings system and put in my log?

Frustrating! Advice appreciated.

 

[Wheels]

As long as the instructor signed your logbook, another instructor can validate the training in Wings. If you know any instructors besides the one who conducted the training then you can ask if they would be willing to do it for you.

 

[Henning]

If your log book is good, you are good, it's all you need. Nobody is looking at this hypercritically anyway. If for some reason that it was supposed to be entered into the database and wasn't, as long as it looks like you were operating in good faith, you will never see a negative issue come out of it.

 

[Archammer]

As long as the instructor signed your logbook, another instructor can validate the training in Wings. If you know any instructors besides the one who conducted the training then you can ask if they would be willing to do it for you.

I had to do that too in a similar scenario, because the instructor that had done a sign off left, and was unreachable.

 

[frfly172]

The log book should be sufficient .

 

[GeorgeC]

I take a few WINGS courses a year for general continuing education.

At a glance, however, it seems that doing WINGS in lieu of a BFR consumes more money and time than just getting a BFR; am I missing something?

 

[EdFred]

I don't get why someone wouldn't want to go up with a CFI for an hour or so. The Wings Program can't judge your flying ability, which is more important than knowing whether class D airspace is 4sm or 4nm in radius. Then again if my flying sucked, I wouldn't want a CFI telling me I was doing everything wrong, and would probably go the Wings route, too

 

[Henning]

I take a few WINGS courses a year for general continuing education.

At a glance, however, it seems that doing WINGS in lieu of a BFR consumes more money and time than just getting a BFR; am I missing something?

No, you're not missing anything, the Wings program was never intended to produce a cheaper, less time consuming, result; it was meant to produce a better result by increasing the frequency between training flights. If you participate in the program, you don't need a BFR because it is assumed you will be current to a higher level.

 

[Wheels]

I don't get why someone wouldn't want to go up with a CFI for an hour or so. The Wings Program can't judge your flying ability, which is more important than knowing whether class D airspace is 4sm or 4nm in radius. Then again if my flying sucked, I wouldn't want a CFI telling me I was doing everything wrong, and would probably go the Wings route, too

The Wings program requires you to fly with a CFI to meet the requirements. It has a knowledge section and a flying section just like a traditional Flight Review. Normally you have to complete three flying activities to earn a phase of wings. All three activities can be done on the same flight but they recommend that they be done at different times spaced out over the year, giving you more time flying with a CFI.

 

[JimNtexas]

I did Wings the old way for years. It did take a bit more flying (3 hours) compared to a one hour flight that's the traditional FR. The good thing was that I and my instructor got to decided what to cover on those those three training flights.

It was all done with logbook entries, no computer needed.

This new system is horrible, it seems designed to discourage pilots from using it.

The only good thing I can see about the current Wings system is that some contractor made some money off the government for breaking something that used to work.

 

[Henning]

I don't get why someone wouldn't want to go up with a CFI for an hour or so. The Wings Program can't judge your flying ability, which is more important than knowing whether class D airspace is 4sm or 4nm in radius. Then again if my flying sucked, I wouldn't want a CFI telling me I was doing everything wrong, and would probably go the Wings route, too

The Wings program has you flying with a CFI as well. I don't see where the opportunity to judge flying ability is missing. The way I see it, if implemented as intended, you're going to make 6-1 hr flights with a CFI evenly spaced in the same time frame that a 1 hr flight covers on Flight Revue schedule. You'll also have similarly increased exposure on the theoretical side of the training.

I see it as a better system that I don't personally take advantage of at this point because I have all my FR and IPC needs covered with a buddy, but we don't get together frequently enough to use the Wings program.

 

[EdFred]

The Wings program requires you to fly with a CFI to meet the requirements. It has a knowledge section and a flying section just like a traditional Flight Review. Normally you have to complete three flying activities to earn a phase of wings. All three activities can be done on the same flight but they recommend that they be done at different times spaced out over the year, giving you more time flying with a CFI.

Honestly, I just ignore the whole Wings program. If someone comes to me for a flight review, we talk until I'm convinced they know their stuff, and then we fly until I'm convinced they won't turn into a smoking hole.

 

[poadeleted20]

If you want to meet the flight review requirement by completing a stage of the Wings program, then all the elements of that training must be completed and documented in the Wings system including instructor validation of the flight training given. Having your instructor just sign the Wings training in your logbook isn't sufficient to meet the requirements of the Wings program, and as such, insufficient to meet the requirements of 14 CFR 61.56(e) to waive the need for a flight review. Also, most instructors would probably be reluctant to validate training given by another instructor.

What you should do is get your instructor together with a FAASTeam Representative to be schooled on how to do this. If you don't know who your local rep is, call the local FSDO and ask to speak to the FAASTeam Program Manager.

 

[poadeleted20]

If your log book is good, you are good, it's all you need.

Henning is correct as far as he goes, but for your logbook to be "all you need", it would have to include the flight and ground training for a flight review IAW 14 CFR 61.56(a) and the complete, regular 61.56 flight review endorsement signed by the instructor who gave that training. Simply having Wings flight training in your logbook signed by your flight instructor plus some on-line courses listed as completed in the Wings system is not sufficient.

 

[Wheels]

If you want to meet the flight review requirement by completing a stage of the Wings program, then all the elements of that training must be completed and documented in the Wings system including instructor validation of the flight training given. Having your instructor just sign the Wings training in your logbook isn't sufficient to meet the requirements of the Wings program, and as such, insufficient to meet the requirements of 14 CFR 61.56(e) to waive the need for a flight review. Also, most instructors would probably be reluctant to validate training given by another instructor.

Why would you be reluctant to validate training given by another instructor if he had made the proper logbook entry? When you validate training there is a block where you indicate whether or not you personally gave the training or if you are just validating it. If you check the no box, you are essentially just verifying that you saw the logbook entry not taking responsibility for the training that was given.

 

[brcase]

I generally give Wings credit for completing 3 flight credits when I do a BFR. If you are up to speed on your flying we can pretty easily complete 3 credits in an hour of flying.

I cover the same things on a flight review that many of the wings flight credits do, so you might as well get credit for it. Plus some insurances give discounts for participating in Wings.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[Unit74]

Also if you get dinged for something, WINGS could be the difference between a certificate action or a much less aggressive stern talking to.

 

[BillTIZ]

I'm a FAASTeam member and glider instructor. One of our glider club members presented to me copies of his Wings Ground Course completions, and his logbook showing his flights with an instructor. I know the instructor and I had no problem logging into Wings and validating the flight training to complete the online record that completed his Wings "Flight Review" requirements.

Any instructor conversant with the Wings process can validate flight training in the system.
Also try to help the computer troubled instructor get up to speed with online Wings.