Beyond Deadly Force ... Options To Use (n/a)

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Where it gets murky is when the firearm owning civilian confronts a guy breaking into his garage at night, sees something that looks like a weapon being drawn, and fires. Now maybe it was a gun maybe it wasn't and there's where it gets messy in court. This is just a natural consequence of having a right to confront people who are stealing from you and having a right to defend yourself.

And therein lies the beauty of the castle doctrine. Society gets together and says, "You know, sometimes mistakes happen, but we're going to put the burden of not making a mistake on the scumbag entering someone's residence with the intent to commit a crime rather than on the law-abiding homeowner who believes he's defending himself and his property."

Dear God. This whole thread is a bunch of suburban wanna-be Dirty Harry’s wishing some thug would break into their boring garage to steal their lawnmower. Here’s a hint: nobody really wants your lawnmower.
And yet, lawnmowers are stolen from boring garages in the suburbs every day. Even where it's legal to shoot the thieves for doing so. So someone really does want those lawnmowers.
 
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I'd love to live in a society that as a whole looked out for one another. I've lived in some rural areas where that was the case, but more highly populated areas here in the US tend to have less of that propensity.
First, thank YOU for your thoughtful, reasoned posts here and in the CC thread.
I think we actually do live in a society that looks out after each other - at least more than the media suggests we have. I've spent a good amount of time on the road to different places with a past job and most people are helpful, friendly, and honest, I believe. And I'd say the highly populated areas are definitely a mixed bag and not amenable to generalizations. I'm from New Orleans and know where I can - and can't - go any hour of the day or night and don't feel the need to carry even there, even downtown. Same with pretty much any other big city - and even rural places. It's all "risk management". I don't fly under bridges or power lines, either ;)

I wish we also had more of a balanced approach to a lot of things instead of the "who's with me" polarized approach. We've made enemies of each other which is directly indicative of point #1.
Sadly, I think that's actually by design, by people seeking power. On both sides of the aisle. By contrast, "It's hard to hate up close" is a good quote I've heard. It's a shame if someone decides before they've physically met someone that they don't like them strictly because of their on-line "presence". Basically until the Internet we only knew each other via direct face-to-face (or rarely just voice-to-voice) interaction. Now we can hate - or like - someone anywhere in the world based on what they type rather than who they really are. And the internet has pumped us full of an overwhelming amount of misleading info on both sides of any given issue.
 
My airplane is hangared in a really good neighborhood so the statistical likelihood I will have an engine out is extremely low. Therefore I do not worry about practicing engine out procedures.
I must admit, to me this is such an apples-to-tennis-balls analogy that it's bugging me. Equating a gun (tool) with training and a mindset (behavior) doesn't seem right. I think the better analogy is "My airplane has a parachute so even if I have an engine out I can land safely. Therefore I do not worry about practicing engine out procedures."

The risk for those who are fortunate enough/choose to get a plane with a parachute is to say "my plane has a parachute, so I'm not worried about flying near thunderstorms or into IMC if I'm not IFR qualified or even flying as low along a river as I want". The parachute (tool) doesn't get past the need for training and mindset (behavior) to properly address the threat at hand, including avoiding unnecessary risks (such as steering away from thunderstorms). And I think we'd all agree, including Cirrus drivers, that there are situations where the tool was used but the training would have gotten the same or better outcome.

Again, I have no big* problem with those who wish to CC doing so. I do think there's a tendency to overstate the threat and benefit, though. But that's situational; it sounds like your life has been filled with more dangerous things than mine, so it may make sense for you. But just like I may wish one day that I had a parachute in my Cherokee, on balance I don't choose to buy a plane with one right now, for my missions and risks.

(*I do think the more there are people CCing, the greater the risk to the population, typically by accidents. I mean, there are people I've met who don't even medically qualify for Basic Med who carry. Heaven forbid they ever discharge that thing in public. Just me.)
 
While I agree that this is a non aviation topic, first, this is "Hangar Talk" which by definition is for non-aviation related topics. But secondly, I think the critical thinking skills related to this are also invaluable to us as pilots. We constantly plan for those unfortunate possibilities in the air, why not plan the same way on the ground?

I'm glad you jumped in though, because it means that you are at least aware of the discussion. I hope that you never encounter any of these situations in the air or down here. If you do, I hope somebody with a badge is there to handle it for you. But if not, at least think through some of the (non-lethal) options being discussed in this thread that could let you and yours walk away safely. The aviation community is small enough. You are an important part of that and I don't want to see a thread stating that we lost you over something preventable.

Blue skies my friend!
I got that from the myriad of others telling me anything goes in hangar talk. With that being said, I actually replied to the original thread about carry weapons. I carry mine everywhere I am allowed and fly with my Walther on my hip. I just get irked when I have to wade through topics like dishwashers, stoves and all sorts of stuff not remotely related to aviation. For my daily fix of gun related content, I frequent a site called northeastshooters.com but I rarely discuss aviation topics there.
 
This happened last night. If I were the cashier being robbed, I’d be happy that armed citizen intervened. This is not far from my house.

https://kfdm.com/news/local/armed-c...ne-of-two-robbery-suspects-at-churchs-chicken
We need to be careful about shaping our beliefs just on anecdotes. This also happened in Texas:
https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/pas...ter-confronting-manhunt-suspect-sheriff-says/

Had the pastor not had a gun, he’d very, very likely be alive today. And even in the story you cite, we don’t really know if anyone would have actually been hurt or just scared to death had the bystander not been armed.

In the bigger, non-anecdotal scheme of things, we have one of the highest gun death rates in the developed world. I’d postulate that’s because we have more guns per person as well - a vicious cycle that, frankly, I’m not sure how to break.
 
In the bigger, non-anecdotal scheme of things, we have one of the highest gun death rates in the developed world. I’d postulate that’s because we have more guns per person as well - a vicious cycle that, frankly, I’m not sure how to break.


But the US murder rate per capita is well below average among nations, and that’s much more meaningful than “gun death rate.”

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-country

I would expect a country with more automobiles to have a higher automobile death rate. And a country with more airplanes to have a higher aviation death rate. The US has lots of guns, so it’s not surprising the gun death rate is higher than places with few guns. But that doesn’t really mean much.
 
You suggest a bright line that never actually existed. There has always been decisions about where to put limited resources. There have always been political and prosecutorial decisions based on the current conditions, political and on the ground. The War on Drugs is an example. My point is the more things change, the more they stay the same.

In the past the decisions have always been about not pushing weak cases or dropping a case for a friend, not deciding that a law wasn’t going to be prosecuted. The judiciary is not the legislative branch. The judiciary upholds the laws as they are written, not nullify them entirely. Do you not understand the difference between a policy that a DA prosecutes nobody and a policy that prosecutes the strongest cases? Or do you just ignore it because “winning” is the goal of your profession, not truth?

and no, it hasn’t “always” been that way. The war on drugs was a political choice, but it was a choice to pass new laws to more heavily prosecute the flavor of the day. Those penalties kept escalating while the drug of choice migrated to inner cities, which is why crack is more heavily penalized than cocaine. The war on drugs never said “oh, we don’t like this law so we’re just not going to prosecute anyone.” If I’m wrong, then show me that example.

the use of prosecutorial discretion to ignore laws entirely started while Obama was in office. It was a pretty big uproar at the time, surely you didn’t miss that?

my point is that things have changed and the number of wrong examples you have given suggest you are either gaslighting the issue or you don’t understand it. Lacking a judge to call you on it, you’re free of course to continue to ignore it, but in the end, you will know that you missed.
 
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Does this happen to you frequently?
The last time I was mugged I was 9 and two older kids were trying to steal my lunch money (I managed to get away). Years later, I surprised someone halfway into the window of my apartment circa 1990, but I just said "hello?" and he said (unconvincingly) "wrong apartment" and climbed back out the window.

Maybe he had a knife or gun, but I did nothing to make him feel threatened (didn't yell, run for the phone, make sudden movements, or approach closer than 20 feet), so I never found out. I did follow at a discrete distance and get his license number as he drove off down the alley.

I think maybe people watch too many cop shows, and start confusing TV drama with reality.
 
But the US murder rate per capita is well below average among nations, and that’s much more meaningful than “gun death rate.”

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-country

I would expect a country with more automobiles to have a higher automobile death rate. And a country with more airplanes to have a higher aviation death rate. The US has lots of guns, so it’s not surprising the gun death rate is higher than places with few guns. But that doesn’t really mean much.
If you compare the U.S to other OECD countries (high and middle income), it has the fifth highest murder rate out of 38 — only Colombia, Mexico, Lithuania, and Costa Rica are higher:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicato...=max&locations=OE&most_recent_value_desc=true
 
I think maybe people watch too many cop shows, and start confusing TV drama with reality.

I think that's true, along with the news. There's all sorts of emotional upset associated with firearms in the media, it's understandable that people are confused by it. They develop a belief the most violent crimes are related to or even caused by firearms, a belief that cooperating with violent people de-escalates a situation, and probably the worst is that LE is there to rescue you.

Probably the worst is the last one. I've worked with LE, trained with LE, and respect LE. They deter crime, they arrest suspected criminals, they get drunk drivers off the street. But they arrive AFTER the violent crime, not during to save the day, and they take a report and if there's anyone that needs help they call an ambulance. The interesting part is that urban areas, where response time from LE can be easily < 5 minutes, and with multiple officers, crime rates are typically higher than in rural areas where response time can be 15 minutes or more. As others have said, risk reduction is your problem, no someone else's.

Just as a random example... I grew up in a small town, part time police force, usually one officer on duty during the weekends and weekday days. One Friday night the police chief stops by our house and says to dad "hey, we've got a call about someone breaking into your shop. Can you come along? Bring a rifle if you have one." So they went down together to check it out. Turned out to be a false alarm. Neither had any advanced training, other than being in the AF in non-combat roles during the Korean war. They both knew the situation was dangerous, but much safer for two people than one. Nearest backup for the chief was the local sheriff, who was 30 minutes out. Nobody wanted to play dirty harry, nobody was looking for a fight. In that small town, the 20 years I was there, there was exactly 1 murder. Somebody ran over someone with a Chevy Blazer, allegedly over a gambling debt. That was in the 80s. Today, it's probably impossible, even in the south, but maybe not.

The story about people in the Netherlands feeling safe hitching is adorable. I'm not sure if it means the crime rates are lower there, or if people are less aware, or if "most of the time" it's even fine to do that in the United States, from a statistical perspective. I do know that from time to time there are predators looking for just that sort of victim, and that they don't need firearms to accomplish their task.

My point with both example is that I, like everyone, live in a world where there are risks, and I like to modify those risks in my favor. Sometimes that means avoiding places and times. Sometimes that means adjusting behavior. It doesn't mean, to me, staying home all the time, nor does it mean pretending to be any character from any movie or tv show.

Final thought. Nobody knows how effective stall training is. The number of times someone stalls without wanting to, pushes that stick or wheel forward, and saves the day. Happened to me once, will never forget it. It's not a recorded thing. Same is the time where someone sticks there head in a window, and instead of the voice of a full sized adult male that leads them away, it's the sight of a 70 year old lady holding a revolver. "Sorry, wrong window". I like a world where a 70 year old lady is potentially just as dangerous as a 20 year old male. I don't think that makes the whole world any more dangerous, overall. Just a little bit more even.
 
But the US murder rate per capita is well below average among nations, and that’s much more meaningful than “gun death rate.”

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-country

I would expect a country with more automobiles to have a higher automobile death rate. And a country with more airplanes to have a higher aviation death rate. The US has lots of guns, so it’s not surprising the gun death rate is higher than places with few guns. But that doesn’t really mean much.
Fair enough. What’s missing, though, is something I noted earlier: 60% of gun deaths in this country are suicides. Those don’t get counted as murders yet are gun deaths. I’d contend many of those are “deaths of opportunity”: if no gun was immediately available, the person would likely not have died of suicide. Our suicide rate is also one of the highest.

I’m not denying the right to carry. I’m saying it has consequences one may not see. Owning a gun increases the odds of suicide by the owner or their family 500%. That’s a high price to pay for the perception of protection from a risk that sure seems real but significantly overstated in most cases.
 
At the end of the day the protection I'm concerned with is abut my loved ones and myself. Citizens of all nations have the absolute right to protect themselves. It is not a right the government or even the constitution grants to you. It is a God given right. Keep in mind that if the government has the power to give you a right then they have the power to take it away.

I recently heard a man say, "If I can help you I will, if I can hurt you I won't." I like that idea. But don't mistake my meekness for cowardice, or my kindness for weakness.
 
Owning a gun increases the odds of suicide by the owner or their family 500%. That’s a high price to pay for the perception of protection from a risk that sure seems real but significantly overstated in most cases.

Not so sure I can go with that number. Guns may make it easier but I trust you are smart enough to know that if a person is bent on self destruction they will find a way to make it happen.

Should the misuse of an item by others be a reason for the responsible people not to have it? The world would be without a lot of good things if that were true.
 
[QUOTE="
I’m not denying the right to carry. I’m saying it has consequences one may not see. Owning a gun increases the odds of suicide by the owner or their family 500%. That’s a high price to pay for the perception of protection from a risk that sure seems real but significantly overstated in most cases.[/QUOTE]

That statistic doesn't even suggest causality. The argument trivializes the complexity and severity of mental illness and PTSD to make an invalid point. It suggests that restricting availability of method would be a benefit to reducing suicide rate, and perhaps by extension also violent crime. Both are silly. "Johnny isn't feeling well today, but we took all of the sharp knives out of the kitchen, so he should be fine now."
 
We need to be careful about shaping our beliefs just on anecdotes. This also happened in Texas:
https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/pas...ter-confronting-manhunt-suspect-sheriff-says/

Had the pastor not had a gun, he’d very, very likely be alive today. And even in the story you cite, we don’t really know if anyone would have actually been hurt or just scared to death had the bystander not been armed.

In the bigger, non-anecdotal scheme of things, we have one of the highest gun death rates in the developed world. I’d postulate that’s because we have more guns per person as well - a vicious cycle that, frankly, I’m not sure how to break.
The great thing about freedom is that you're free to choose to put your fate in the hands of violent criminal actors, and others are free to make a different choice.
 
Not so sure I can go with that number. Guns may make it easier but I trust you are smart enough to know that if a person is bent on self destruction they will find a way to make it happen.

Should the misuse of an item by others be a reason for the responsible people not to have it? The world would be without a lot of good things if that were true.
Actually, this study suggests I greatly understated the increased risk: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-n...associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html

I’m not a psychiatrist but do read my medical journals. Suicides ARE preventable in many cases. The availability of guns has been shown to increase the risk, like it or not.

On the flip side, the benefits of owning one appear anecdotal at best, from what I’ve seen of the literature. The risks are definitely real and significant.

Until a few years ago my feelings on this were pretty laissez-faire: guns tended to stay in the house and it was pretty Darwinian. Unfortunately we’ve seen quite a few Columbines, Sandy Hooks, and Las Vegases over the decades and recent years; our country’s taste for guns has definitely dragged more innocents into the tragedy - far more per population than other advanced countries.

I served my country for 24 years: I’m not “anti-gun”. Just opposed to fooling myself with anecdotes.
 
I guess we can both cite articles. When it comes to suicides there are many countries that are above us in the rate of suicide deaths and yet they don't have the guns we have.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/suicide-rate-by-country

Quote from the article:

The only western European nation with an exceptionally high suicide rate is Belgium, which ranks at number eleven with 18.3 suicides per 100k. However, it is worth noting that Belgium has some of the world's most liberal laws on doctor-assisted suicide, also known as euthanasia, which is likely to be a factor in its statistics.

So maybe we should ban doctors?
 
Suicides ARE preventable in many cases.
ALL suicides are preventable, as are most homicides. By definition they require intentional human action. If the human doesn't take that action, the suicide/homicide would be prevented. And, so, therefore?
 
:) Last I understood, doctors accidentally remove a lot more people from the landscape than firearms do. And based on recent experiences with the medical community, myself and family, I believe it to be true.

For that fix, though, I'd say we'd be better off by adding more nurses rather than removing drs...

That's the funny thing, just like pushing the nose forward isn't intuitive as a solution, for many solutions the intuitive solution isn't the right one. Starving deer on long island? Feed them? No, that makes it worse. But trying to tell some people that hiring professional hunters was a reasonable approach was like talking to a wall. That said, many of the world's largest ecological disasters were explicitly caused by a flawed understanding of the consequences by the respected scientists of the time. Science doesn't always have the right answers, especially imo the softer sciences. If we move much past math we're relying on some assumptions...
 
Last I understood, doctors accidentally remove a lot more people from the landscape than firearms do. And based on recent experiences with the medical community, myself and family, I believe it to be true.

For that fix, though, I'd say we'd be better off by adding more nurses rather than removing drs...
Given that people go to doctors when they’re extremely ill, that seems plausible. And I’m not exactly sure what your definition of “accidentally remove” is (and how that’s pinned on the physician rather than someone else in the healthcare process, for example, with a medication error).

And can you elaborate on how adding more nurses would fix that, especially since one can become a nurse with just two years of post-high-school education vs. a minimum of 9, (typically at least 11 and up to 15 - or more) for a physician? I’m not disagreeing - just trying to understand your point.
 
Given that people go to doctors when they’re extremely ill, that seems plausible. And I’m not exactly sure what your definition of “accidentally remove” is (and how that’s pinned on the physician rather than someone else in the healthcare process, for example, with a medication error).

And can you elaborate on how adding more nurses would fix that, especially since one can become a nurse with just two years of post-high-school education vs. a minimum of 9, (typically at least 11 and up to 15 - or more) for a physician? I’m not disagreeing - just trying to understand your point.

Looking for a nicer way to say "kill them". In one case, poor surgical technique followed by inappropriate medication following a bypass. In another case, miss-diagnoses of a neurological condition. Doctors are better these days, in my opinion, of reporting their peers when they are clearly making errors, but to me it's still one of the worst fields in the sense of people taking care of each other because they share that professional bond. The "Oh yeah, don't use that guy, but don't quote me on that". Don't get me wrong, I have a great GP, a great ophthalmologist, and I respect them. But to me the field is littered with people who just shouldn't be practicing medicine.

Re adding nurses - When things are working well, they are the ones that notice problems, trends, and anomalies. When things are working well, they spend more time with the patients, and can help advocate for them. In healthcare, in the US, I don't think we have an education problem as much as we have a "lack of spending on people in general" problem. Everyone seems to be overloaded, the companies are pushing for higher efficiencies, and the lack of staff causes stress for all involved. Just my 2 cents as an outsider, with friends and relatives in the field.
 
We lived in Germany and Norway while in the Air Force. What a contrast. In Norway, our 10-year-old daughter and her friends routinely rode the public bus on their own to go see movies downtown and she and her 7-year-old brother walked on their own to a shopping area a mile away, on a busy street. We never feared for them, either for crazies or traffic: the European culture is so different than ours. They look after each other to an incredible degree, especially in Norway. I once picked up a teen girl hitch hiking on a back country road; as a father, I was really concerned for her. I asked her if she was worried about anything happening and she, in all seriousness, asked “like what?” In hindsight it was wonderful living in countries where people didn’t think they needed to carry

Them fruity eurosexuals don’t understand what FREEDOM is! ‘Murica!

Gotta love the folks who claim they refuse to live in fear and won’t wear masks, but simultaneously run around packing heaters like they’re headed to the O.K. Corral.
 
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If someone asks for my wallet/keys/phone/etc I will give it to them. Realistically if someone has a gun already pointed at you are you going to be able to draw and fire before you yourself are turned into a human colander? Unlikely. Real world most people are somewhere between 3 and 4 seconds from the draw to the first shot when the turd hits the oscillating device.

If I did carry a gun I sure wouldn’t talk about it on the internet on an open forum that could later be used as evidence against me if I ever needed to use said gun to defend myself or someone else.
 
Owning a gun increases the odds of SUCCESSFUL suicide by the owner or their family 500%. That’s a high price to pay for the perception of protection from a risk that sure seems real but significantly overstated in most cases.
FIFY

Many suicide attempts are aborted while in progress, hard to do that with a gun.
 
Fair enough. What’s missing, though, is something I noted earlier: 60% of gun deaths in this country are suicides. Those don’t get counted as murders yet are gun deaths. I’d contend many of those are “deaths of opportunity”: if no gun was immediately available, the person would likely not have died of suicide. Our suicide rate is also one of the highest.

I’m not denying the right to carry. I’m saying it has consequences one may not see. Owning a gun increases the odds of suicide by the owner or their family 500%. That’s a high price to pay for the perception of protection from a risk that sure seems real but significantly overstated in most cases.

Once again you are misstating facts and ignoring others, and making conclusions without facts.

look at the suicide rate in Japan... a country with almost no guns in the hands of civilians. It's lower than the US rate, but not by much

Have you ever looked at the number of suicides committed by people who had access to guns but used a different method?

Have you ever considered the number of deaths that have been prevented by someone having a firearm and using it defensively?
 
Once again you are misstating facts and ignoring others, and making conclusions without facts.
OK - can you share some facts about the value of CC and make conclusions about the benefit of CC with facts (and not anecdotes)?

And please don’t misunderstand my question to mean I agree with you: it’s well-established that the availability of a gun increases suicides, like the data or not.
 
On the flip side, the benefits of owning one appear anecdotal at best, from what I’ve seen of the literature. The risks are definitely real and significant.

It’s not all anecdotal. You must have missed the study the CDC did during the Obama administration:

“According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, almost every major study on defensive gun use has found that Americans use their firearms defensively between 500,000 and 3 million times each year.”

There have actually been several studies. See https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhs...ked-about-defensive-gun-uses/?sh=3f2fcdd4299a .

Part of the problem is deciding just what constitutes “defensive gun use.” Showing the attacker a gun? What about reaching under your coat and saying, “I have a gun?” Some people will answer a survey one way, some another.

Some won’t ever say they’ve used a gun defensively even when they have. And most of these defensive gun uses don’t get reported to the cops or make it into the news.
 
And please don’t misunderstand my question to mean I agree with you: it’s well-established that the availability of a gun increases suicides, like the data or not.


No, it’s not. It’s established that a gun, when available, is the preferred method of suicide. That’s a different conclusion.
 
No, it’s not. It’s established that a gun, when available, is the preferred method of suicide. That’s a different conclusion.
That’s factually incorrect. Please see the Stanford article I cited earlier as one example.

“Our findings confirm what virtually every study that has investigated this question over the last 30 years has concluded: Ready access to a gun is a major risk factor for suicide,” said the study’s lead author, David Studdert, LLB, ScD, MPH, professor of medicine at Stanford Health Policy and of law at Stanford Law School.

and

“Suicide attempts are often impulsive acts, driven by transient life crises,” the authors write. “Most attempts are not fatal, and most people who attempt suicide do not go on to die in a future suicide. Whether a suicide attempt is fatal depends heavily on the lethality of the method used — and firearms are extremely lethal. These facts focus attention on firearm access as a risk factor for suicide especially in the United States, which has a higher prevalence of civilian-owned firearms than any other country and one of the highest rates of suicide by firearm.”


https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-n...associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html
 
It’s not all anecdotal. You must have missed the study the CDC did during the Obama administration:

“According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, almost every major study on defensive gun use has found that Americans use their firearms defensively between 500,000 and 3 million times each year.”

There have actually been several studies. See https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhs...ked-about-defensive-gun-uses/?sh=3f2fcdd4299a .

Part of the problem is deciding just what constitutes “defensive gun use.” Showing the attacker a gun? What about reaching under your coat and saying, “I have a gun?” Some people will answer a survey one way, some another.

Some won’t ever say they’ve used a gun defensively even when they have. And most of these defensive gun uses don’t get reported to the cops or make it into the news.
Thanks - that’s a start. The ones you cite seem to only look at the number of times a gun was used defensively - not that their use drove a better outcome. Are there studies showing documented better outcomes?

It’s interesting that, on the one hand, we seem to be saying the presence of a gun was a good thing simply because it was used defensively regardless of need/alternatives yet we say the higher suicide rate via guns is somehow inaccurate because they would have killed themselves some other way (a factually incorrect statement, as I noted above). We seem to want it both ways here…

Again, I’m not trying to dissuade anyone from carrying - just hoping people truly understand the consequences and risks. Heck - I fly a gyro, which most on here think is foolish, but I’m not denying the risks and do what I can to mitigate them.
 
In the past the decisions have always been about not pushing weak cases or dropping a case for a friend, not deciding that a law wasn’t going to be prosecuted. The judiciary is not the legislative branch. The judiciary upholds the laws as they are written, not nullify them entirely. Do you not understand the difference between a policy that a DA prosecutes nobody and a policy that prosecutes the strongest cases? Or do you just ignore it because “winning” is the goal of your profession, not truth?

and no, it hasn’t “always” been that way. The war on drugs was a political choice, but it was a choice to pass new laws to more heavily prosecute the flavor of the day. Those penalties kept escalating while the drug of choice migrated to inner cities, which is why crack is more heavily penalized than cocaine. The war on drugs never said “oh, we don’t like this law so we’re just not going to prosecute anyone.” If I’m wrong, then show me that example.

the use of prosecutorial discretion to ignore laws entirely started while Obama was in office. It was a pretty big uproar at the time, surely you didn’t miss that?

my point is that things have changed and the number of wrong examples you have given suggest you are either gaslighting the issue or you don’t understand it. Lacking a judge to call you on it, you’re free of course to continue to ignore it, but in the end, you will know that you missed.

Everyone is entitled to their own belief system. You may want to believe that the world is becoming a much worse place. This example doesn't support that belief. They only real difference is that some of these prosecutorial decisions have been announced to the public, rather than just made internal policy. It is a sign of our polarized times, but then, we have been polarized before.
 
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Ok, I’m going to go with gaslighting then.
 
I think maybe people watch too many cop shows, and start confusing TV drama with reality.
I think maybe people watch too many news stories and start confusing tv drama with reality.
Yes, both, actually. News media (whatever their political persuasion) cover the exceptional, not the routine, because the routine isn't news. I remember decades ago when my local paper ran an April Fool's edition — they'd had a reader survey that told them people wanted more good news, so everything on the page was positive. One of the lead headlines was "[x] thousand planes land at Kingston Airport without crashing."

I don't personally know anyone who has been killed or injured during a robbery, but I know two who died in household accidents (one while cleaning his gutters, and another while trying to move a dresser down the stairs). Neither one made the headlines, because that kind of death is, sadly, too common to be news.
 
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