Best way to get sharp on ATC com comprehension

[WDD]

Suggestions requests on getting sharper on listening to ATC communications, specifically when IFR.

I have no issues when VFR in flight following. But in IFR (training with CFII) here in Atlanta I need to up the game.

Anything to suggest vs just listening to ATC live . Com / “ATC language immersion”?

 

[snglecoil]

If you have a home PC sim, I highly recommend the PilotEdge ATC service. I personally used it before and during my instrument rating. I recommend it to all of my instrument students. Only one has signed up for it though, but the difference before and after (and compared to other students) pretty shocking.

 

[luvflyin]

Suggestions requests on getting sharper on listening to ATC communications, specifically when IFR.

I have no issues when VFR in flight following. But in IFR (training with CFII) here in Atlanta I need to up the game.

Anything to suggest vs just listening to ATC live . Com / “ATC language immersion”?

You specifically said ‘listening.’ Are you missing calls? Not understanding Clearances?

 

[luvflyin]

If you have a home PC sim, I highly recommend the PilotEdge ATC service. I personally used it before and during my instrument rating. I recommend it to all of my instrument students. Only one has signed up for it though, but the difference before and after (and compared to other students) pretty shocking.

Do they get ‘busy’ sometimes? Talking to a lot of different planes at one time?

 

[WDD]

You specifically said ‘listening.’ Are you missing calls? Not understanding Clearances?

1) yes at times.
2) mostly ok with clearances / CRAFT and whatnot.

An example. Skyhawk 123, when at 3000 turn heading 190. In”heard” turn 190. I was still climbing to 3000.

I think this is similar to becoming fluent enough in a new language so that you pick up things easily enough while doing a lot of tasks in the airplane

 

[snglecoil]

Do they get ‘busy’ sometimes? Talking to a lot of different planes at one time?

Yes, sometimes annoyingly so. It is only a handful of controllers covering every position in a given service area. So while you’ll frequently hear the same voice for clearance delivery, ground, tower, tracon, and up, that person treats each new position as if he/she is a different person. It works sort of like the real world when a TRACON controller works multiple frequencies. You may only hear the controller side of the conversation, but may not hear every pilot’s response. So with only a few controllers working a huge area like the entirety of LA center, the radios stay busy even with 20-30 pilots logged in. It’s a very authentic experience.

 

[Velocity173]

PDK was a madhouse the other day! Glad I was just transitioning.

 

[Hang 4]

A big part for me was learning to anticipate what might be coming. Frequently, there is a lot of information jammed into one transmission and some of it is irrelevant. A big one for me was "Bugsmasher 124 you are XX miles from DUMBO" I would spend a bunch of mental time trying to figure out why he was telling me that and finally realized that it was a clue that he was about to give me a final approach clearance. My mind would still be processing where DUMBO was instead of getting ready to copy the clearance.

 

[Hang 4]

Another gotcha is "Radar Service Terminated" when you are in IMC. That seems to be a bit of a regional flavor. I never get it in my local FL area. I went to KRYY from FL in solid soup the last 45 minutes. Got on the RNAV 9 and when they handed me off to tower, they said Radar Service Terminated while I was still IMC. I briefly freaked out. Just went to tower and flew the rest of the approach and broke out at 800 or so AGL. Apparently, that's a common thing. I had just never heard that before and since I was descending it really got my pulse going.

 

[benyflyguy]

It’s get better the more you fly in the system. Go out and practice where you are going to be doing a lot of quick approaches, one after another and another. I always struggled with accepting and reading back my approach clearance. I have now learned to anticipate what my clearance is going to be- makes it easier to get the readbacks right.

 

[Deelee]

For me, two things really helped - 1. learning to fly from a class D in the SFRA where even on VFR days, I had to talk to ATC from the get go - get weather, get squawk and departure freq, get taxi clearance, get takeoff clearance, when instructed switch to departure... 2. getting flight following even on short VFR flights since I knew I was going right to IR training 3. listening to live ATC 4. using XPLane with VATSIM (not exactly real, but pretty darn close on a busy Friday night when all the kids are controlling from their mom's basements) 5. wait that was more than two, but those things really helped me. Oh, and learning from early on that it is ok to ask for either a repeat or clarification. Never assume the intent if you aren't sure of an instruction.

 

[eman1200]

listen
write down
read back
execute

 

[Velocity173]

Another gotcha is "Radar Service Terminated" when you are in IMC. That seems to be a bit of a regional flavor. I never get it in my local FL area. I went to KRYY from FL in solid soup the last 45 minutes. Got on the RNAV 9 and when they handed me off to tower, they said Radar Service Terminated while I was still IMC. I briefly freaked out. Just went to tower and flew the rest of the approach and broke out at 800 or so AGL. Apparently, that's a common thing. I had just never heard that before and since I was descending it really got my pulse going.

If radar coverage doesn’t exist within 1/2 mile of the runway end of a controlled airport, the approach controller is required to tell you “radar services terminated.” If you went into ATL you wouldn’t have gotten that transmission.

 

[Sudburian]

Yes, sometimes annoyingly so. It is only a handful of controllers covering every position in a given service area. So while you’ll frequently hear the same voice for clearance delivery, ground, tower, tracon, and up, that person treats each new position as if he/she is a different person. It works sort of like the real world when a TRACON controller works multiple frequencies. You may only hear the controller side of the conversation, but may not hear every pilot’s response. So with only a few controllers working a huge area like the entirety of LA center, the radios stay busy even with 20-30 pilots logged in. It’s a very authentic experience.

I'm a current PPL student and also a "PilotEdge" student, and will echo the recommendation. It seems crazy to me that student pilots don't use PE routinely. It's about $20 a month. Apparently the plan for me if I hadn't discovered PE (thanks to a fellow user here btw) was to spent some $200 an hour learning the same foundation? I'm not really seeing the benefit of doing it that way. (There is, of course, the added cost if you aren't already a flight simulator fan, which means you'll need to buy computer hardware to get going on it. But you can do that economically too if you're okay not bathing in the luxury of Microsoft's beautiful scenery while simming).

Yes, the airspace is crowded in a sense, because of what snglecoil explains. It's not necessarily the case that at a single airport you are sim-landing at there are tons of other customers also landing. But I've found the toughest part of ATC communication was (a) getting over the initial hump of mic fright, and (b) getting a bunch of hours of practice in so that the rhythm of "aviation English" starts to make sense to my ears and brain. Because PE's controllers are so strict and by the book, the added bonus is you're getting the academic foundation for how airspace works drilled into you pretty solidly.

This is purely from the VFR perspective. It's also useful for learning IFR materials and the IFR pilot-students who use PE also seem to be happy with it, but I'm not one of them yet.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Another gotcha is "Radar Service Terminated" when you are in IMC. That seems to be a bit of a regional flavor. I never get it in my local FL area. I went to KRYY from FL in solid soup the last 45 minutes. Got on the RNAV 9 and when they handed me off to tower, they said Radar Service Terminated while I was still IMC. I briefly freaked out. Just went to tower and flew the rest of the approach and broke out at 800 or so AGL. Apparently, that's a common thing. I had just never heard that before and since I was descending it really got my pulse going.

Yes it's a common thing. All it means is they are no longer tracking you on radar once they hand you off to tower. "Radar contact lost" enroute means the same thing but is less common (I got my first one of those on my first solo IFR flight). Nothing to get excited about.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Suggestions requests on getting sharper on listening to ATC communications, specifically when IFR.

Just like VFR communications, the ATC end of the mic follows a consistent pattern. When you listen to ATIS, what was at first confusing became easy because "airport-information-time-wind-vis-etc" is always in the same order and your mind began to compartmentalize in the same way. And you learned to anticipate. Coming into a towered airport from the northwest when runway 35 was in use, it was a good bet you'd get an instruction to enter left downwind.

It's the same for almost all IFR communications. Mnemonics like CRAFT and PTAC exist because they reflect sequences we use in every IFR flight. And we learn to anticipate instructions based on experience and situational awareness.

In the long run, exposure teaches us both sequence and content anticipation. But to speed the process there are books like Bob Gardner's "Say it Again," apps, YouTube IFR videos (I still find myself trying to copy clearances I'm less familiar with), LiveATC, and sites like PilotEdge. What might work best for you only you can say.

 

[sarangan]

A big part for me was learning to anticipate what might be coming. Frequently, there is a lot of information jammed into one transmission and some of it is irrelevant. A big one for me was "Bugsmasher 124 you are XX miles from DUMBO" I would spend a bunch of mental time trying to figure out why he was telling me that and finally realized that it was a clue that he was about to give me a final approach clearance. My mind would still be processing where DUMBO was instead of getting ready to copy the clearance.

One common mistake I have seen in students is they start writing down as soon as they hear their tail number. They focus on writing everything instead of listening. Anything that needs writing will typically be preceded by ATC telling you "advice when ready to copy". On the other hand, "XX miles from DUMBO, maintain 3000 until established" doesn't need any writing. It is always the same song, same dance, just different words. With practice, you will learn to zoom in on the differences rather than the whole sentences.

A good exercise is to go to the liveatc.com archive, pick an unfamiliar airport and listen to clearance delivery.

 

[luvflyin]

One common mistake I have seen in students is they start writing down as soon as they hear their tail number. They focus on writing everything instead of listening. Anything that needs writing will typically be preceded by ATC telling you "advice when ready to copy". On the other hand, "XX miles from DUMBO, maintain 3000 until established" doesn't need any writing. It is always the same song, same dance, just different words. With practice, you will learn to zoom in on the differences rather than the whole sentences.

A good exercise is to go to the liveatc.com archive, pick an unfamiliar airport and listen to clearance delivery.

I’d say that for the OP and his concerns, listening to Approach would be more valuable.

 

[Velocity173]

I tell students to just speak plainly and don’t get too wrapped up on read backs in the air. Too often I hear students whether military or civilian struggling to speak in a perfect format and repeating everything ATC says. They’d be amazed about how little ATC is required to have on a read back and how little they care about minor phraseology issues.

Controllers want brevity. Don’t over think it and minimize extraneous verbiage as much as possible.

 

[PaulS]

Keep studying, I found out there is no magic in IFR calls. It's mostly structured, done the same way just about every time. Listen, write it down, read it back, then interpret. You'll learn what you need to read back. Such as when cleared for the approach, they tell you how far you are from a fix, a heading or clearance to a fix, usually an altitude to maintain until established, and the clearance for the approach. You only need to read back your heading or clearance, the altitude to maintain, that you are cleared for the xxx approach, and your call sign.

If they are talking too fast, or mumbling, make them repeat it, they usually slow down. Be patient, don't be a dick.

I was flying into LCI a week ago in actual and the controller was busy plus he was a mumbler. I had no problem with him, but he told another guy he was flying him through final. The other guy comes back with a snarky, whiny, "why am I flying through final?". Unnecessary, the answer is almost always for other traffic. Don't be that guy.

It will come, especially as you understand better what is going on.

 

[Deelee]

PTAC

I had to look that mnemonic up... never learned that one. But the concept is important to understand - anticipate that ATC is going to say something like, "Arrowe 1234R 2 miles from FUBAR, turn left fly heading 180 to intercept the localizer, maintain 3000 until established, cleared ILS runway 18." or something like that... but the pattern is the same, so anticipating that pattern can help. I guess flying more in the system with your CFII will help. Even after getting your rating, maybe have your safety pilot play ATC if you are shooting approaches in VMC. Partner and I do that - we'll give each other vectors and try to use phraseology similar to what ATC is going to use.

It seems crazy to me that student pilots don't use PE routinely. It's about $20 a month.

Ouch. That seems steep. And last time I checked, they only had coverage in the western part of the US. For ****es and giggles, I'll pop on VATSIM from time to time if I'm messing around with xplane and they seem to be a good job. And it's free. Just wonder what the difference is between the two.

 

[Rich Holt]

Controllers want brevity.

This is cannot be understated.

When I was learning to (control) I practiced radio comms everywhere. In the car, in the shower, in my sleep. Over and over again until I didn't have to think about what to say. That will prepare you for 90% the of comms. The shortest amount of time broadcasting should be your keys to success. Anticipating the next radio call is also important.

The other issue I read? from your question was about how to cope with busy airspace/frequencies. The key is to learn to listen for your call sign. This sounds like it is easy and doesn't need to be mentioned, but it is a skill that gets overlooked. Especially if you have to monitor more than one frequency(getting ATIS/Trucking through a MOA). With practice, you will get there. I was able to get to a point where I could monitor 4 frequencies at a time (call sign recognition) while (controlling) on at least one of those.

*control is in parenthesis as not to offend the FAA controllers who do a fine job. For 2 hours at a time.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I had to look that mnemonic up... never learned that one.

LOL. Neither did I. But I've heard it used by mnemonically-driven pilots and instructors.

 

[Timbeck2]

"Arrowe 1234R 2 miles from FUBAR, turn left fly heading 180 to intercept the localizer, maintain 3000 until established, cleared ILS runway 18."

And to the OP, the read back would be: "Left one eight zero, maintain three thousand until established, cleared approach, three four romeo"

 

[Timbeck2]

*control is in parenthesis as not to offend the FAA controllers who do a fine job. For 2 hours at a time.

You know you're not gettin' in the club don't ya?

 

[tawood]

I'm hard of hearing, not just sound levels, but also with clarity...so often I can hear the sound, but it is distorted at times, so I had a particular difficulty hearing clearances at times. Part of it is just learning what to expect to hear, then you recognize it when you hear it. For my IR, I took my little hand held aviation radio down to the local, busy, class C, and sat at the approach end in their long term parking on an IFR day. After listening to a day of plane-after-plane getting approach clearances, I had that down pat.
I'm also not afraid to ask a controller to slow down. I know I've ****ed off a few with that (I know because a few have come back then R - I - D - I - C - U - L - O - U - S - L - Y slow), but so what? I always think of them as working for me.

 

[Mahneuvers]

During my IFR training last year I found the Pilot Workshops IFR Communications Guide helpful. I would listen to LiveATC every chance I had.

 

[Rich Holt]

You know you're not gettin' in the club don't ya?

There are some aspects of aviation that I am too old for. Who'd thought it?

 

[PaulS]

I'm hard of hearing, not just sound levels, but also with clarity...so often I can hear the sound, but it is distorted at times, so I had a particular difficulty hearing clearances at times. Part of it is just learning what to expect to hear, then you recognize it when you hear it. For my IR, I took my little hand held aviation radio down to the local, busy, class C, and sat at the approach end in their long term parking on an IFR day. After listening to a day of plane-after-plane getting approach clearances, I had that down pat.
I'm also not afraid to ask a controller to slow down. I know I've ****ed off a few with that (I know because a few have come back then R - I - D - I - C - U - L - O - U - S - L - Y slow), but so what? I always think of them as working for me.

Yes, I've had a few do that to me too, not sure if it's them being passive aggressive or just not wanting to repeat a third time, it's probably more of the latter. Doesn't matter though, as long as I get what I need.

 

[Mahneuvers]

My hearing has gone to crap and now I have the pleasure of contending w/ Tinnitus. An ANR headset is absolutely mandatory equipment for me, but even with it, my uptake is slow if controllers tell me something I'm not expecting.

 

[Groundpounder]

Dial up JFK ground on a busy SWAP afternoon and practice your listening skills.

 

[wayne]

Suggestions requests on getting sharper on listening to ATC communications, specifically when IFR.

I have no issues when VFR in flight following. But in IFR (training with CFII) here in Atlanta I need to up the game.

Anything to suggest vs just listening to ATC live . Com / “ATC language immersion”?

Practice. Listening to it will help, but you will have to stay focused like you are flying or it won't sink in as much. You'll get better with time, flying the approaches, departures and arrivals.

IFR will have new pieces that you didn't get with VFR flight following. You'll learn them. How far along are you with your IR training? If you are far enough along, going out on a nice day with a safety pilot and shooting a few approaches is great practice. Even better if your safety pilot is IR. Shoot two or three on the way to lunch then talk about it; don't expect them to be your CFII, but they can help. Then shoot two or three on the way back. Taking a break can help from getting saturated and frustrated. Or just go out for a few approaches and then do it again another day.

I've learned to pull up the approach for an airport even on a nice day when IFR. They will often reference fixes on the approach even if you are being vectored for the visual approach. If they have an ILS for that end of the runway, that's usually the one they'll use for the reference. If not they'll use the GPS/RNAV. Heck, pull it up in your GPS ahead of time if you want (load, don't activate). Then you can just select the fix and turn to it. But just having the approach pulled up on your App, or on paper, will be a big help if they tell you "direct XXX" and that wasn't on your flight plan.

 

[coma24]

A big part for me was learning to anticipate what might be coming. Frequently, there is a lot of information jammed into one transmission and some of it is irrelevant. A big one for me was "Bugsmasher 124 you are XX miles from DUMBO" I would spend a bunch of mental time trying to figure out why he was telling me that and finally realized that it was a clue that he was about to give me a final approach clearance. My mind would still be processing where DUMBO was instead of getting ready to copy the clearance.

It's a borderline tragedy that your instructor didn't brief you on what a PTAC was, walking through lots of examples, before you ever got into the airplane for the instrument flight. The only things that are 'news' are the heading and altitude. Even then, the heading can be predicted 4 out of 5 times, really just leaving you the altitude.