Best way to buy a car these days?

Unit74

Unit74

Final Approach
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Unit74
Looking for a new Subaru Accent. Wife decided she doesn’t like her 2018 VW Atlas. Power sucks, transmission sucks, always turns off at lights and no way to stop it from doing so, no cargo capacity with third row up..... she’s has enough and want the Subaru.

Is there any wizbang way Subaru drivers are getting the best deals? Bought this VW via text message with the sales guy.
 
Only thing I’ve found to be consistent is buying them out of southern states where they don’t actually need the AWD, used anyway. New, no idea. Around here they always sell at a premium.
 
I just recently got a Forrester for 2k under MSRP for my kid, which is a good price in Texas...not sure there is much discounting on the Accent though...but flat southern state is probably the only way.
 
Unit74 said:
always turns off at lights and no way to stop it from doing so
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You’ll find that with many of the newer vehicles today. Both of my parents cars have it, but it can be disabled in theirs.
 
Ryanb said:
You’ll find that with many of the newer vehicles today. Both of my parents cars have it, but it can be disabled in theirs.
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On some you can only disable it for one start cycle.

On some you can also hack the damn thing and disable it forever or next dealer firmware upgrade — at risk of voiding warranty. Just order the right cables and software online from the usual suspects.
 
denverpilot said:
Only thing I’ve found to be consistent is buying them out of southern states where they don’t actually need the AWD, used anyway. New, no idea. Around here they always sell at a premium.
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You live in Subaru-land though. I think Denver and Seattle are the natural habitat for Subaru trees or something.

If I were buying a new one... I would shop around, know exactly what configuration I wanted, search the manufacturer's site to find that configuration at a nearby dealer, arm myself with information regarding pricing, go to that dealer and tell them they have one chance to give you a good number to take it off their lot. If they play games or don't give you a good deal, just go to other local dealers, play the numbers game with them, and they'll probably be able to grab the car from the dealer who has it (in exchange for something else, of course).

Last time I bought a new car, I knew exactly what I wanted... I had to shop around for a dealer. The first four were, well, stereotypical car dealers. The fifth one gave me a good deal and didn't jerk me around, so they got my business... And they got me the car off another dealer's lot.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
You live in Subaru-land though. I think Denver and Seattle are the natural habitat for Subaru trees or something.

If I were buying a new one... I would shop around, know exactly what configuration I wanted, search the manufacturer's site to find that configuration at a nearby dealer, arm myself with information regarding pricing, go to that dealer and tell them they have one chance to give you a good number to take it off their lot. If they play games or don't give you a good deal, just go to other local dealers, play the numbers game with them, and they'll probably be able to grab the car from the dealer who has it (in exchange for something else, of course).

Last time I bought a new car, I knew exactly what I wanted... I had to shop around for a dealer. The first four were, well, stereotypical car dealers. The fifth one gave me a good deal and didn't jerk me around, so they got my business... And they got me the car off another dealer's lot.
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I did that years ago — the look it all up and make an offer to four dealers — thing. It worked. Had a deal call in half an hour and they wanted $80 more bucks.

Pro tip: Send the offer via fax. Nobody knows what the hell to do with a fax anymore so they’ll hand it to the fleet manager. LOL. It’s worth finding a fax machine or using an online service. Proper wording of the letter also helps.

I made the mistake a while back of doing that same sort of online research today. The difference today was you have to give contact information to the manufacturer to get to their database now.

I had slimy salespeople calling and emailing me (at my alternate number and email address, I didn’t give the real ones) for weeks. God they were annoying. “Do you want to come in for a test drive this weekend?” No I don’t. I didn’t want to give you contact info in the first place. Go away. :)
 
Sam's Club, Costco, and AAA have decent auto-buying programs. So do USAA and Navy Fed if you're a veteran. My experience is that all of these services do basically the same thing: They pre-negotiate the best price the dealer can do. I'm told that they deal with the Fleet Sales divisions, but in most cases you still pick up the vehicle from a local dealership.

I used to enjoy haggling. Nowadays, I'm perfectly happy letting someone else do it for me. If you belong to any of those organization, I'd give them a shot. This is a good time of the year for car shopping.

Rich
 
denverpilot said:
I had slimy salespeople calling and emailing me (at my alternate number and email address, I didn’t give the real ones) for weeks.
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Pick your least favorite buddy, use their name and number...:lol:

Or use your area code and 867-5309


When I am vehicle shopping I do not need or want a vehicle. Haggling is the funnest part of car shopping. If we reach what I consider a fair price for me, then we start talking about trade in.
 
Ouch!

Expensive lesson on the VW. Just sayin'.

That said, my contribution stops here. I've never bought a new vehicle in my life, and I really hate vehicle dealerships with a passion.
 
When we bought a new Toyota Corolla three years ago we had excellent results with the "Build & Buy Car Buying Service" on the Consumer Reports website. Otherwise, we and our kids have bought four vehicles over the last fifteen years from Hertz, and have been satisfied each time.
 
Fax an RFP to the 20 closest dealers. Ignore the ones who want to talk. Spreadsheet with all the 'out the door' prices. Lowest bidder wins. Lowest bidder is whoever can provide a purchase order with the correct VIN and the agreed upon price.
 
On a lark, I submitted a req to the Costco program on an Ascent last week.

Dealer basically emailed back saying "yeah we have a few" and nothing else -- he was 45 minutes away. No invoice price, no invitation to drive, no data at all. Was super underwhelming... but then again, here, those things must be selling like hotcakes -- I see em all over.

Drove one too, as dad got one as a courtesy car for his Crosstrek. Pretty nice. I'm no fan of the turbo 4 banger and wish my 3.6 was an option for it, but it was no slouch. If only I knew 5 other people I wanted to spend time in a car with, it'd be a contender :D
 
It is 2019. If you are trading in a 2018 just accept the fact that you are going to take a bath. Better yet, tell her to live with it for at least two more years. Or maybe you swap cars with her.
 
When I bought my Ram I found a dealer that was a high volume one and discounted their vehicles heavily off of MSRP. They were a quantity dealer and made things easy for an out of town purchase. Saved me probably $10k vs if I’d tried to buy local, and they had exactly what I wanted in stock.

I’d imagine a similar dealership exists for Subaru, but maybe not.
 
I shopped for my 2016 F-250 nationally on the internet looking for the best price on what I wanted. Autotrader is good for that. Found a price I liked and then found a similarly-equipped truck at a local dealer. Called and told the salesman that if they would match my price with no runaround, then I would buy that evening. Also, I wanted a couple mfr. rebates that I qualified for in addition to the price point. They agreed over the phone, and I drove the truck home that night. Don't know if that is the best way but it worked for me.
 
Best way to buy a car?

For years now, have been done with new cars and dealerships.

Of 9 cars, 8 were Craigslist and 1 was Ebay.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Best way to buy a car?

For years now, have been done with new cars and dealerships.

Of 9 cars, 8 were Craigslist and 1 was Ebay.
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I can't begin to count how many cars I have bought (I had 18 cars, trucks, and motorcycles on my property when I got married in 1996 if that gives you any idea - new wifey not thrilled) and my 2016 Ford was the first new one ever. Did buy a Yamaha R5C brand-new in 1972 though. Regarding the truck, figured I would treat myself and give it a try. Jury is still out if I would do that again.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
If I were buying a new one... I would shop around, know exactly what configuration I wanted, search the manufacturer's site to find that configuration at a nearby dealer, arm myself with information regarding pricing, go to that dealer and tell them they have one chance to give you a good number to take it off their lot. If they play games or don't give you a good deal, just go to other local dealers, play the numbers game with them, and they'll probably be able to grab the car from the dealer who has it (in exchange for something else, of course).
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This!

Competition and the internet are your friend. Going through this right now, have it narrowed down to a Honda Ridgeline or the Chevy Colorado/Canyon. Certainly the dealers have a game they want you to play, but it isn't necessary to play that game. Agree with Flyingcheesehead, know what you want, do the research on cost, incentives and rebates, AND be willing to say no and walk if they start to play games. The way dealers do business does seem differ. While it is pretty difficult to pin down a to-the-dollar dealer cost, seems that one can get pretty close. Generally I'll visit a few just to get a feel for the vehicle, its look in real life and take a drive, making it perfectly clear I'm not buying today, also gives me a chance to evaluate the salesperson, they do differ within the dealership. When down to that last choice or two, then it is time to talk numbers. Have one dealer that we've dealt with before that was very knowledgeable (pet peeve - really dislike sales folk that don't know their product), easy to work with and gave a decent price upfront. Due to some internet research, I knew that Honda was having an unadvertised manufacturer-to-dealer incentive of $1500. The dealers initial price didn't include that, when I asked the salesman about it, he gave me a wry smile and instantly deducted the incentive. I'm in SE PA, so there are a pretty good number of dealers not too far away, yes they trade cars all the time, and it isn't that hard to play one off the other, after all it is a competitive business. I tend to use an all-in, out the door price as the negotiating process, don't get too hung up on the individual line items unless something weird shows up.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Best way to buy a car?

For years now, have been done with new cars and dealerships.

Of 9 cars, 8 were Craigslist and 1 was Ebay.
Click to expand...

The Ram was the second new vehicle I’ve bought (my first new vehicle purchase was my first Ram). On the whole I agree with you, the rest of what we buy is used. But when it comes to what I wanted from a truck, new made sense. Sometimes new makes sense, and sometimes someone just wants new in which case, have at it.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I’d imagine a similar dealership exists for Subaru, but maybe not.
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Heuberger in Colorado Springs, CO is the highest volume Subaru dealer in the US.

Good luck getting any deals from them.

Ironically they were the dealer who did my fax deal, back when they were selling VW.

They sold the VW rights across the street for the much more lucrative Subaru market here.

Place is a printing press for money for the owners now.
 
Best way to buy a car. Show up to seller with money. Give money to seller. Get car. The end.
 
I use truecar.com to get a feel of a good price, then email dealers around me. Best price and vibe gets my business.
 
denverpilot said:
Heuberger in Colorado Springs, CO is the highest volume Subaru dealer in the US.

Good luck getting any deals from them.

Ironically they were the dealer who did my fax deal, back when they were selling VW.

They sold the VW rights across the street for the much more lucrative Subaru market here.

Place is a printing press for money for the owners now.
Click to expand...

Yeah, like I said, I didn't know what the deal was with Subarus. With Ram there are basically two huge dealers - the one in North Carolina I went to, and I think the other one is in Idaho. They provide minimal dealer service and amenities, but they focus on making it easy to buy vehicles there from far away.
 
I know you asked about Subaru, but I don't have any insight into that particular make. I can, however, tell you the best way for a pilot to buy a new Ford at a no-haggle price that will be about as good as you can get. 5 simple steps.

Step 1: Join EAA
Step 2: Visit the "Ford Partner Recognition Program" page on EAA's website, login and get a code.
Step 3: Go to Ford.com and order a brochure on the car or truck that interests you.
Step 4: Wait for the brochure to come in the mail, it will most likely include a "Private Cash Offer" voucher that will save you another $500 to $1500 depending on the vehicle.
Step 5: Find the car you want online at https://www.fordpartner.com, then go to the dealer and tell them you have "X-Plan". They will stop haggling, pull out the invoice and show you the X-Plan price. From that price, you still get to deduct any rebates, incentives, and the private cash offer. Doc fees are also capped.

That's it. Drive home in your new Ford. On rare occasions, the dealer may be able to offer you a better price than X-Plan. The entire tone of the car buying process changes when you have X-Plan.
 
Costco has contract rates with dealers ... I wonder how the Costco plan compares to the X Plan?

Edit - google knows all ... or at least knows someone who knows someone who knows ...

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/313857-costco-vs-x-plan-vs-negotiating.html

clip from above:

I am a Sales Manager at a Ford dealership. X PLan is about $100 to $300 over invoice, depending on the MSRP of the vehicle. Dealers get reimbursed a few hundred dollars for doing the X Plan. As far as how good a deal, it's a pretty good deal. Can you spend 5-8 hours on a Saturday going from dealer to dealer and save a couple hundred dollars? Probably. Worth it? Not in my opinion. You can walk in to a dealer and get a great price right away without any negotiation. Watch out for a dealers adding useless adds to the price like window etching, nitrogen in the tires, and paint/fabric sealant. That's where a lot of profit is made. These are a complete rip off.


and

Usually the Costco plan is $XXX over invoice and there's no wiggle room. I believe, from reading here that the best deal is the X Plan and getting any additional rebates on top of that.. My last truck was purchases w/ the Costco Plan, but I'd be happy to get the truck at invoice (Minus any rebates)

and here https://www.f150forum.com/f118/buying-new-truck-costco-409040/index2/
it appears that X Plan beats Costco hands down ...
And skilled negotiators beat X Plan ... ???
 
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Dam, that X-Plan sounds nice.
My wife and son both bought Mitsubishi cars just under two years ago. Offered cash deals, would not budge on price shopping around between a couple of dealers.
They walked away with what they wanted, and paid a little under 5K under sticker price for vehicles with no manufacture rebates they sell so well. (I do not negotiate anymore, I let my wife does it, she has gotten a much better price than me every time)

Tim
 
My FiL is retired from Ford, so we get to buy on the Z plan, which is basically the A plan but for retirees. Confused yet? The A/Z plan is better than the X plan, being that A/Z is true invoice minus the holdbacks. So it's basically the same price the dealer really pays for the car. About as good as you can get and zero haggling.
 
Years ago I was friends with a retired Ford exec. He knew I was looking at buying a new truck, and offered to get me set up with the X-plan if I bought an F-250/350 instead of a Dodge. This was 2004 and the PowerStroke 6.0L was the engine of choice, which I did not want given all the issues it was known for having.

After turning down my friend's generous offer, I did find myself wondering at various points if I wouldn't have been better off using that X-plan discount to get a nicer equipped F-250/350, at least a 4x4 version (something I didn't get in a foolish attempt to save money).

Of course then in 2017 I bought a 2003 F-350 with a PSD 6.0, and found out that my 20 year old self was right and that my 33 year old self had managed to get not just uglier than my 20 year old self, but also dumber.
 
I dunno. I managed to snag my '08 F-150 SuperCrew Lariat (basically Platinum edition before it existed) in the height of the economy collapse, so they were practically giving trucks and large SUVs away at every dealership. I got it for $13K off sticker. First new truck I've ever bought (and probably the last new vehicle). I'm still driving it 12 years later and it just rolled over 150K miles. No regrets there, but man that $30K was still a ton for me to stomach. So, my advice would be that the best way to buy a car is to wait for an economic recession!
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
Yeah, like I said, I didn't know what the deal was with Subarus. With Ram there are basically two huge dealers - the one in North Carolina I went to, and I think the other one is in Idaho. They provide minimal dealer service and amenities, but they focus on making it easy to buy vehicles there from far away.
Click to expand...

That would be Dave Smith ( https://www.davesmith.com/ ) They claim to be the largest Jeep Ram dealer in the world. I certainly see a lot of license plate rims for them around the PNW.
 
Ghery said:
That would be Dave Smith ( https://www.davesmith.com/ ) They claim to be the largest Jeep Ram dealer in the world. I certainly see a lot of license plate rims for them around the PNW.
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Yeah, I never even bothered to check them out. North Carolina was closer, had exactly what I wanted at a good price, and then honored my supplier discount credit as well. Win for me.
 
Thunderbird83 said:
I know you asked about Subaru, but I don't have any insight into that particular make. I can, however, tell you the best way for a pilot to buy a new Ford at a no-haggle price that will be about as good as you can get. 5 simple steps.

Step 1: Join EAA
Step 2: Visit the "Ford Partner Recognition Program" page on EAA's website, login and get a code.
Step 3: Go to Ford.com and order a brochure on the car or truck that interests you.
Step 4: Wait for the brochure to come in the mail, it will most likely include a "Private Cash Offer" voucher that will save you another $500 to $1500 depending on the vehicle.
Step 5: Find the car you want online at https://www.fordpartner.com, then go to the dealer and tell them you have "X-Plan". They will stop haggling, pull out the invoice and show you the X-Plan price. From that price, you still get to deduct any rebates, incentives, and the private cash offer. Doc fees are also capped.

That's it. Drive home in your new Ford. On rare occasions, the dealer may be able to offer you a better price than X-Plan. The entire tone of the car buying process changes when you have X-Plan.
Click to expand...

This... If you want a Ford, and you want it now, the EAA membership will pay for itself many times over if you use the X-Plan. In fact, I kinda wonder how many EAA members have no interest in aviation and just wanted to buy a Ford. ;)

I bought two Fords - One was X-plan. The other, I was actually able to get a better deal than X-plan, but that's because I bought it on the last day of the month, the dealer really needed to sell one more that month to keep their qualification for some incentive program from the factory, and they had one that had been sitting on the lot for several months (probably because it didn't have a black interior, which I can certainly do without).


I suppose that's one other thing worth mentioning. If you're not going to use the EAA-Ford X-Plan, buy in the last couple days of the month and/or quarter, and there'll sometimes be good deals to be had. Offer to come back the following week and see how they react. If they really want to sell the vehicle now, you know there's some negotiating room.
 
Here's another trick, for buying used:

Really do your research on the model you're interested in. Look at a ton of used listings, learn to spot what the different options look like in the pictures. See if there's a VIN decoder available as well, sometimes that can tell you what engine or some other "invisible" option a car has.

I've discovered that it's quite common for dealers to mis-list used cars. I would guess 5% aren't represented properly in their ads. If you can learn to spot which ones are mis-listed, you can get a screaming deal.

I bought my wife a Nissan Rogue SL (the top trim level) that was loaded with goodies, for about 30% under market value because the dealer screwed up. It was listed as an S (the lowest trim). Only the SL had leather seats standard, so I just searched for S models (where leather wasn't even an option) with leather seats, and voila... Found a car that had a pretty good price even if it had been an S, but also clearly had leather seats, the higher-end infotainment system, and even SL badging visible in a picture or two. There were two in the country that were similarly priced and mis-listed at the time, and one of them was only about an hour away from me. Went down, took it for a test drive, whipped out the checkbook, and only then did the dealer discover their error.

Their sales manager tried really hard to guilt me into paying more (hah! Yeah right) but thanks to our state's consumer protection laws he really had no choice other than to not sell the car at all. I paid well under the NADA trade-in value for it.

Caveat emptor: There are even more cars that are mis-listed in the other direction, promising trim levels and features that just aren't there, so it's definitely worth doing your research any time you buy a used car so that you don't get screwed.
 
For used, the best advice I can give is to buy under 100k miles. All the used vehicles I've bought with under 100k miles have lasted me well. The ones I've bought with over 100k miles, even if it's only more in the 130-140k range, have been much bigger problems on the whole. The way vehicles are designed it seems that the first 100k miles it's pretty hard to screw things up and you're still at the very beginning of when things are starting to wear out. Sometimes you get lucky and get a fantastically maintained vehicle (like my E55), but more often that's not the case.

My first Excursion and my wife's Mercedes GL550 were/have been really solid and reliable vehicles. Bought the Excursion with 90k and the GL550 with 94k. In both cases let the first owner absorb something like 70-80% of the purchase price in depreciation and get reasonable reliability.
 
Unit74 said:
Looking for a new Subaru Accent. Wife decided she doesn’t like her 2018 VW Atlas. Power sucks, transmission sucks, always turns off at lights and no way to stop it from doing so, no cargo capacity with third row up..... she’s has enough and want the Subaru.

Is there any wizbang way Subaru drivers are getting the best deals? Bought this VW via text message with the sales guy.
Click to expand...

Subaru does not budge much on price especially with a new vehicle like the Acsent... they are behind on the demand and already pushing the 2020. I have purchased two Subies in the past five years from two different dealers.. same story they pretty much hold to their price. Now this is in Southern Ca where the Subaru is a popular car, this may be different in other parts of the country...
 
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