JCranford
En-Route
anyway out of California is good
Beat me to it!
Best way out of S0-Cal
- Thread starter Tom-D
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Beat me to it!
Shawn
En-Route
Shush you Constitution hatin soft on crime earthquake lovin gun regulating hippie!...no fun here...all evil state...stay away.
ircphoenix
En-Route
Worst. State. Ever.
Also, I didn't know Chino could get green. And of course the people there are friendly... They're all cops. Especially Chino Hills. Lol
Also, I didn't know Chino could get green. And of course the people there are friendly... They're all cops. Especially Chino Hills. Lol
CrimsonFlyer
Pre-Flight
Oh, so much love for my California here. Gorgeous state. Only state where I can split lanes on my motorcycle. Countless days for VFR flying--OK, maybe not this month. Tough gun control. Forefront of clean energy. Both houses and governorship are controlled by Dems. Solidly liberal. Talented, diverse people. Kick-ass universities. Resistance center against Trumpian autocracy and insanity. What's not to love, guys? Sometimes I truly wish the economy here were worse and people would stop moving here so it would not cost $1.5 million to buy a 2-bed-1-bath.
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Love visiting California, great diverse state with so many beautiful places. I love flying in, renting a motorcycle, and riding to yet another interesting place. Cost of living and crowding in populous areas is a barrier for many who might want to live there. I'll continue to visit when I can.
Kevin16587
Pre-takeoff checklist
Do you have any statistics to back that up?
About 80% of my job is "educating" truckers exceeding the speed limit. I was in court about 2 hours ago for a trucker fighting a ticket. I'm also a former trucker myself.
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jkaduk
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John Kaduk
Yep, love me some earthquakes. Beats hurricanes, blizzards, and tornadoes I've lived through.
Kevin16587
Pre-takeoff checklist
Talk to most interstate truck drivers and they will tell you about the taxes they pay at ports of entry in Oregon and Washington. Also, most drivers hate going to Arizona because of the reputation for heavy handed enforcement there.
I've never heard of targeting a vehicle to pull over based on which state the plate is from. Hell, before illegal aliens were issued licenses in CA most of them had Washington plates on their cars (while living and working in central CA).
Edited to add: I have lived in CA for most of my life, but the political climate does not line up at all with mine. I'm a transplant from the Midwest and plan on relocating to a different state after retirement.
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ircphoenix
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People are so fragile about where they live. Goodness people... it's like being a nationalist without having lived in other countries. Settle down. =)
Tom-D
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Tom-D
I'm not worried about truckers or illegals, I hate doing 55 when every other vehicle is doing 75. that speed limit is a hazard to other traffic.
Kevin16587
Pre-takeoff checklist
Shepherd
Final Approach
Vote Republican.
Ghery
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Ghery Pettit
4th generation native Californian. Moved out in 1995 and am NOT moving back. It's a beautiful state, I have lots of relatives still there. But the lunatics are running the asylum. What happened?
Ghery
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Ghery Pettit
4th generation native Californian. Moved out in 1995 and am NOT moving back. It's a beautiful state, I have lots of relatives still there. But the lunatics are running the asylum. What happened?
mscard88
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Tom-D
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Tom-D
Same thing that's happening here .
Hank S
En-Route
- Splitting lanes is a good way to get run over.
- Lots of places have good VFR weather.
- Since your gun control is so tough, there must be little violent crime. Whoops! Guess I was wrong . . . Wouldn't a gun be better for defending yourself?
- How's that clean energy going? Adding alcohol,to gas lowers fuel economy, and growing corn for alcohol requires more fuel for the farmers than it saves after adding to the gasoline. The solar companies are going broke, even with free government money they don't need to pay back. Nobody wants wind farms near where they live, work or play . . . But isn't clean energy great? By the way, didn't you shut down all of your nuclear power plants?
- I've noticed much resistance to Trump, including references to killing him, blowing up the White House, seceding from the country . . . But I've not seen any of the "autocracy" that has the precious snowflakes all melting.
- What's not to love? Ridiculous real estate prices, stupendous income and property tax rates, business-killing regulations, plutocrats in charge who all think they know better about how I should love and work (but don't live or work themselves by the rules they promulgate for everyone else), Nancy Pelosi (you know, she who said, "pass the legislation first, then find out what's in it."), loudmouth celebrities who think because we enjoy watching them act and speak things that others have written that we also care about their personal opinions, etc.
- Nah, I don't even want to visit . . .
SoCal RV Flyer
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MAKG1
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MAKG
Yeah, I guess 1/8 of the US population must be wrong.Geez, haters gonna hate.
Sometimes people forget that. California's "business killing regulations" have supposedly done so since the 70s. If that were the case, how did the state go from the 8th largest economy in the world to the 5th? The state should be empty from all the people and businesses leaving....yet the local economy here is booming.
Hank, suit yourself and stay away. More space for those of us who realize that if it really were as crappy a place as you say, the real estate prices might not be so high. Like, perhaps, Alabama.
Oh, and there are several Californias, not just one. We don't all hang out on the beach in Malibu.
RalphInCA
Cleared for Takeoff
Why?Hey now, leave Alabama out of it!
If we are going to beat up on states, Alabama is a good one to beat up on. Hot, too humid, too many bugs, too many corrupt politicians, and cops. A backwards population trying to hang on to ideals that were outdated 50 years ago.
There is a reason real estate costs in Alabama are some of the cheapest in the nation. Who would want to live there?
I do however hear that some Alabamans have learned how to wear shoes. That's good.
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
So, you won't be moving here then? Good.
RalphInCA
Cleared for Takeoff
Nope. And I suspect you won't be moving to California. So I guess both of us will be happy.
jkaduk
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John Kaduk
Wow, hyperbole much?
Assuming you've never been, that is the difference between you and I. I've been to Alabama and lived next door in Mississippi. So I make my judgement based on personal experience. Nothing wrong with Alabama. There's good things to be found in every state IMO. It just doesn't have access to the things I like to do.
BTW, this is my first post here.... I fly my C-172 (lots of hours) up and down the West Coast quite a bit, especially between the Bay Area and LA. Here are some of my thoughts on routing as far as the Willamette Valley, especially in winter.
(1) An instrument rating might come in handy; if nothing else, it removes some of the suspense. Note that the weather can change rapidly this time of year, both quickly and with geographic distance. You can proceed with a VFR ticket but be prepared to spend a night or more in a hotel on the way, even if the weather mostly looks "good" at departure time. The usual problems even on some of the "better"days are: post-frontal mountain obscuration over much of the route and dense fog/low ceilings in the Central and Willamette valleys, especially mornings,
(2) Regarding your question, the route up I-5 is safer than the Hwy-395 route for a couple of reasons. First, you may encounter eye-popping up/downdrafts from about Inyokern all the way north (and beyond) the CA/Nevada border. This can happen nearly anytime the wind is from 180 deg to 360 deg (most of the time) and exceeds 25 kt at 12,000 ft, especially if the wind flow is laminar and stable (again, most of the time). In fact, depending upon your level of experience, you may wish to limit yourself to winds of 20 kt on the Hwy-395 route, and a mountain flying course will help. You didn't say how much weight you'd be carrying but a C-172 climbs significantly better at 300-400 lb below gross (you, a bag, and fuel?). Still, any non-turbo'ed piston aircraft is hardly a homesick angel much above 10,0000 ft. The I-5 route is significantly lower than the I-395 route BTW, excepting perhaps over the Tehachapi range and over the Siskyious on I-5. Second, there are more airports and continuous communication with ATC (UNLIKE the Hwy-395 route below ~12,000 ft) at nearly any altitude along the I-5 route,
(3) That said, the "I-5 route" has a couple of options to work with. For a VFR trip headed north, I like to proceed along the San Gabriels (or head across the San Fernando Valley, taking care to avoid Van Nuys and Burbank Class D airspaces), climbing to between 8,500 and 12,500 ft depending upon the wind speed over the Tehachapi Range. If the winds are in excess of 20 kt, go high. head for the Gorman VOR but cut east a little over the ridge to avoid the venturi effect through Tejon Pass and (possibly) the turbulence in the lee of Mt. Pinos. Descend to a more comfortable altitude, say 6,500-8,500 ft once you are north of the ridge. It is a big help to contact SoCal Approach for flight following (they will take you when they find out you are climbing high right through their airspace). Also, keep your head on a swivel in the LA Basin, even if your plane is ADS-B equipped,
(4) Once north of the Tehachapi Range, you will be handed off to Bakersfield Approach, then SoCal approach (again), and then Oakland Center. There is a large, annoying MOA used by Lemoore NAS that forces a choice. If the Central Valley floor is foggy, take the westerly route via the AVE-PXN VORs. If there is also some residual mountain obscuration over the Coast Range, stay at 8,500 ft. Certain peaks of the coast range are deceptively high. Incidentally, if this sort of mountain obscuration is present--as is normal after cold front passage--I am assuming you have sufficient training to fly VFR over-the-top. However, if the Central Valley is not foggy, you can fly up Hwy-99, up the middle of the Central Valley instead. You want to avoid flying over the center of the Central Valley if it is foggy below in case you experience an engine failure. BTW, "tule" (or radiation) fog burns from the bottom, so the bases tend to lift from zero to several hundred feet as the day progresses and, if a sunny day, may burn off completely by noon,
(5) keep flying your route (Coast Range [I-5] or up the middle [Hwy-99]) past PXN or ECA, respectively, all the way to Redding. From here, the territory rises quickly and you will need to climb. I-5 passes just to the west of 14,000 ft Mt. Shasta (bring your camera). Once again, the more wind the higher, I go and it is not unusual for me to climb to 12,500 ft, descending maybe to 8,500 ft around Roseburg. Somewhere around Redding, check the weather along your route further north, either through ADS-B in (if so equipped) or with a call to FSS. Do not proceed if there are clouds below and you are not wholly comfortable with VFR over-the-top, and make SURE the tops are below your flight altitude. This will get you up to Eugene and even to Portland, where I defer to more experienced Seattle/Portland-based pilots,
(6) 'Couple of things. First, you will need to make one or two fuel stops along the way. Excellent stops for cheap avgas include: KTCY (Tracy), C83 (Byron), KVCB (Vacaville/Nut Tree), and either Colusa, Willows (KWLW), or Orland. Willows has a restaurant on-site, and the excellent Fenton's is a ten-minute walk from the Nut Tree ramp. Unfortunately, all of these can be fogged in, especially before noon, although fog seems to dissipate sooner north of Sacramento. BTW, avgas is expensive between Orland and about Eugene. Second, you didn't ask about the coast route: say Santa Monica-Santa Barbara-Lompoc-San Luis Obispo-Salinas-Livemore-etc. While gorgeous, you will be flying over the ocean at points, and it will take a bit longer than the I-5 route. I prefer the I-5 route (along the eastern side of the Coast Range) in-general.
Happy landings always,
Don
(1) An instrument rating might come in handy; if nothing else, it removes some of the suspense. Note that the weather can change rapidly this time of year, both quickly and with geographic distance. You can proceed with a VFR ticket but be prepared to spend a night or more in a hotel on the way, even if the weather mostly looks "good" at departure time. The usual problems even on some of the "better"days are: post-frontal mountain obscuration over much of the route and dense fog/low ceilings in the Central and Willamette valleys, especially mornings,
(2) Regarding your question, the route up I-5 is safer than the Hwy-395 route for a couple of reasons. First, you may encounter eye-popping up/downdrafts from about Inyokern all the way north (and beyond) the CA/Nevada border. This can happen nearly anytime the wind is from 180 deg to 360 deg (most of the time) and exceeds 25 kt at 12,000 ft, especially if the wind flow is laminar and stable (again, most of the time). In fact, depending upon your level of experience, you may wish to limit yourself to winds of 20 kt on the Hwy-395 route, and a mountain flying course will help. You didn't say how much weight you'd be carrying but a C-172 climbs significantly better at 300-400 lb below gross (you, a bag, and fuel?). Still, any non-turbo'ed piston aircraft is hardly a homesick angel much above 10,0000 ft. The I-5 route is significantly lower than the I-395 route BTW, excepting perhaps over the Tehachapi range and over the Siskyious on I-5. Second, there are more airports and continuous communication with ATC (UNLIKE the Hwy-395 route below ~12,000 ft) at nearly any altitude along the I-5 route,
(3) That said, the "I-5 route" has a couple of options to work with. For a VFR trip headed north, I like to proceed along the San Gabriels (or head across the San Fernando Valley, taking care to avoid Van Nuys and Burbank Class D airspaces), climbing to between 8,500 and 12,500 ft depending upon the wind speed over the Tehachapi Range. If the winds are in excess of 20 kt, go high. head for the Gorman VOR but cut east a little over the ridge to avoid the venturi effect through Tejon Pass and (possibly) the turbulence in the lee of Mt. Pinos. Descend to a more comfortable altitude, say 6,500-8,500 ft once you are north of the ridge. It is a big help to contact SoCal Approach for flight following (they will take you when they find out you are climbing high right through their airspace). Also, keep your head on a swivel in the LA Basin, even if your plane is ADS-B equipped,
(4) Once north of the Tehachapi Range, you will be handed off to Bakersfield Approach, then SoCal approach (again), and then Oakland Center. There is a large, annoying MOA used by Lemoore NAS that forces a choice. If the Central Valley floor is foggy, take the westerly route via the AVE-PXN VORs. If there is also some residual mountain obscuration over the Coast Range, stay at 8,500 ft. Certain peaks of the coast range are deceptively high. Incidentally, if this sort of mountain obscuration is present--as is normal after cold front passage--I am assuming you have sufficient training to fly VFR over-the-top. However, if the Central Valley is not foggy, you can fly up Hwy-99, up the middle of the Central Valley instead. You want to avoid flying over the center of the Central Valley if it is foggy below in case you experience an engine failure. BTW, "tule" (or radiation) fog burns from the bottom, so the bases tend to lift from zero to several hundred feet as the day progresses and, if a sunny day, may burn off completely by noon,
(5) keep flying your route (Coast Range [I-5] or up the middle [Hwy-99]) past PXN or ECA, respectively, all the way to Redding. From here, the territory rises quickly and you will need to climb. I-5 passes just to the west of 14,000 ft Mt. Shasta (bring your camera). Once again, the more wind the higher, I go and it is not unusual for me to climb to 12,500 ft, descending maybe to 8,500 ft around Roseburg. Somewhere around Redding, check the weather along your route further north, either through ADS-B in (if so equipped) or with a call to FSS. Do not proceed if there are clouds below and you are not wholly comfortable with VFR over-the-top, and make SURE the tops are below your flight altitude. This will get you up to Eugene and even to Portland, where I defer to more experienced Seattle/Portland-based pilots,
(6) 'Couple of things. First, you will need to make one or two fuel stops along the way. Excellent stops for cheap avgas include: KTCY (Tracy), C83 (Byron), KVCB (Vacaville/Nut Tree), and either Colusa, Willows (KWLW), or Orland. Willows has a restaurant on-site, and the excellent Fenton's is a ten-minute walk from the Nut Tree ramp. Unfortunately, all of these can be fogged in, especially before noon, although fog seems to dissipate sooner north of Sacramento. BTW, avgas is expensive between Orland and about Eugene. Second, you didn't ask about the coast route: say Santa Monica-Santa Barbara-Lompoc-San Luis Obispo-Salinas-Livemore-etc. While gorgeous, you will be flying over the ocean at points, and it will take a bit longer than the I-5 route. I prefer the I-5 route (along the eastern side of the Coast Range) in-general.
Happy landings always,
Don
Hank S
En-Route
Assuming can get a person into trouble . . .
I enjoyed much of my recent visit to San Fran, and was pleasantly surprised by some of the people. But when homes are all in the millions, people can afford to be nicer. Yeah I stayed near the waterfront within walking distance of the cruise ship I was there to board. Across the Bay where temps are 100+ are a different ballgame. And no, that wasn't my first trip to the People's Republik.
I've lived in 8 states, lived overseas twice and have visited 43 states. I think I can say there are some that are nicer than others, some too cold, some not very friendly at all. There can also be significant variation within a given state just by traveling another 50 miles.
You don't get out much, do you?
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
I read the title without my glasses and thought I saw..."Best way out of a 50-Cal....."
Hank S
En-Route
Geez, haters gonna hate.
Life is too short to hate. Just pointing out that what he calls "benefits" aren't looked at the same by everyone. I prefer to keep my constitutional rights, as well as my whole lane on the road; that second part keeps my truck out of the body shop and me out of the hospital. Driving between lanes on a motorcycle is asking to get run over by someone changing lanes or drifting a little bit sideways (we all do that, no one drives a consistent distance from the line for much more than a hundred yards, watch while driving get to work tomorrow).
Alabama may other be the best place to live, but this part of the state is pretty nice. I've been here almost three years.
CrimsonFlyer
Pre-Flight
Hank S, appreciate your disagreeing with me. No point arguing... except for the lane splitting thing. Man, do you ride?!! I have never met a fellow motorcyclist who doesn't envy us Californian riders being able split lanes. There are of course safe ways to do it and stupid ways to do it. But you sound like you're not a biker. How unfortunate.
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Hi again,
I've one additional comment to add. The freezing level will drop as you proceed north from LA. It will often be surface-4,000 ft in wintertime by the time you reach the Willamette Valley. You need to be especially careful in a C-172 to avoid overflying thick layers of ice-laden clouds, a common weather condition over the Siskiyous and into Oregon. Always leave yourself an out! The experimental icing forecast addressable from www.aviationweather.gov will give you a sense of the cloud tops but here is something you really want to check with Flight Service as you approach Redding from the south. Redding (KRDD) or nearby Benton, by the way, are your last lowland airports northbound along I-5 before crossing the mountains into Oregon.
Best,
Don
I've one additional comment to add. The freezing level will drop as you proceed north from LA. It will often be surface-4,000 ft in wintertime by the time you reach the Willamette Valley. You need to be especially careful in a C-172 to avoid overflying thick layers of ice-laden clouds, a common weather condition over the Siskiyous and into Oregon. Always leave yourself an out! The experimental icing forecast addressable from www.aviationweather.gov will give you a sense of the cloud tops but here is something you really want to check with Flight Service as you approach Redding from the south. Redding (KRDD) or nearby Benton, by the way, are your last lowland airports northbound along I-5 before crossing the mountains into Oregon.
Best,
Don
What lane splitting with a bike allows you to do is move up to the front during a red light, beat everyone off the line and have open road in front of you.
SoCal RV Flyer
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The splitting lanes thing is not that big a deal...freeway lanes are pretty generous in width, and I never feel the need to crowd over to one side to let a biker through. Just becomes normal after a while. And, hey, if a biker goes down because of his own Darwin Award mentality (splitting lanes at stupid-fast speeds), well, that's more donor organs for people in need of transplants (provided those kidneys or whatever are still in usable condition). Driving in SoCal for 38 years, I've never had a motorcycle make contact with my car.
You mention high real estate prices, but wages here tend to be higher so it evens out to some extent.
Love the geographical diversity here too....an hour's drive can take you up to the mountains for skiing; another hour to the high desert; and another to the beach. I love using pilotage flying around in the basin, because of the scenery and so many references to where you are...coastline, mountains, reservoirs and the freeway system. The toll roads are lightly traveled and would make excellent emergency strips.
See how I tout the positives and don't reel off a list of negatives about the Deep South? The point is to celebrate where you live, and be happy there. Why so much bitterness for California if you like it just fine in Alabama?
denverpilot
Tied Down
Hank S
En-Route
It's a problem because so few people are able to qualify for $1,000,000 -$2,000,000 mortgages, leaving home ownership and appreciation out of reach.
MAKG1
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The solution is very simple. Don't live in Palo Alto or San Francisco. There are cheaper houses in many places, even in the middle of Silicon Valley.
If no one could qualify, that would be self regulating....
If so few people are able to qualify for home ownership, wouldn't the supply/demand equation dictate that the price would go down?