Best Twin Engine Under $60k

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JoseCuervo

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JoseCuervo
What is the "best" twin that can be bought for under $60k for time building and cross country travel.

If you wanted to get to a 100 hours of multi time, and have some fun for a year, what would you buy?

Likely 2 people and a few bags, maybe some sporting goods, so useful load 500-600 plus fuel would be adequate.

Speed doesn't matter.

Low cost, reliable, and, in 100-200 hours, a reasonable chance of selling with out too much effort.

And if the answer is a Bugsmasher 420, are there certain years that are better and certain ones to avoid?
 
310 or Aztec, don't worry about which years to avoid, at <$60k, it'll be all of them.:rofl: Seriously though, a Geronimo Apache, any of them, are probably going to give you the 'best' plane for your money under $60k, with the Travelair providing a better option for a bit more money to find a really good copy. If you're interested, I know a Travelair for sale around $70 that is in very good condition with an top level last generation panel with a King Silvercrown stack (including the 89 or 90 GPS) HSI, Flight Director, and STEC 60-2 Autopilot. He doesn't particularly have it for sale, but needs STOL plane now, so would likely sell it. I found it for him about 10 years ago and it's a solid plane.

I used a Travelair for my personal transport and time builder and enjoyed all 10 years of it.
 
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What is fuel burn and speed for flight planning on a Travel Air?
 
You won't get the best of them but you can get a twin Comanche for 60k. Good speed, economical, a great flying aircraft. Travel air is also at the top of my list but it does burn a couple of gallons more per hour.

Bob
 
JoseCuervo said:
What is fuel burn and speed for flight planning on a Travel Air?
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20gph got me 170kts, 16gph got me 147, 10 got me 125. I had the Riley turbos on mine and would out pace 55 Barons above 12,500 and could hold over 13,000' OEI.

I normally ended up flowing 8 per side because that's where the engine sounded happiest and cruised the 147 because it was cheaper, but my buddy runs 170 with no problems.
 
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Alright, I'm going to throw a dumb question out there. Why didn't anyone mention the Seminole. I thought it would be a good choice since flight schools use them.
 
Because you won't get one in that price range and it's not that great of an airplane.

Bob
 
rbridges said:
Alright, I'm going to throw a dumb question out there. Why didn't anyone mention the Seminole. I thought it would be a good choice since flight schools use them.
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Number one they don't make the price cut exactly because flight schools make money with them. The other issue is that why buy an Arrow when a Bonanza is Cheaper.:dunno:
 
Looking thru Trade-A-Plane, lots of them have 2k hours on the engines. Maybe all those imaginary engine reserve accounts don't really have $$$ in them?

And, it looks like $60k is more than adequate for a budget.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Looking thru Trade-A-Plane, lots of them have 2k hours on the engines. Maybe all those imaginary engine reserve accounts don't really have $$$ in them?

And, it looks like $60k is more than adequate for a budget.
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Travelair uses a straight valve O or IO 360 which are pretty much 3000 hr+ engines if you don't let them sit and rot, so most people don't do anything until the oil analysis of filter inspections indicate something is wrong that warrants an overhaul. Regular operators run the 320 and 360 4000 hrs.

The best value really is to buy a good plane priced as a run out with recently runout engines that have seen at least 100 hrs a year for the last 20. Any hrs you put on them will be "free".
 
I had a beech travel air. Ran it for over 800 hrs,and it was fun.
 
Old twins under 60K are going to be expensive
The Apache is about as bullet proof as they come
Yup, it's slow, fat, and ugly
It also has abundant used parts available for it
It has simple systems
It has a useful of 1000# + -
Avoid the weird looking ones with big engines
Buy one for ~30K and figure on putting 10K into it immediately to make it actually usable
Fly the living bejabbers out of it and then part it out at the end
The education will be priceless
 
unsafervguy said:
Because you won't get one in that price range and it's not that great of an airplane.



Bob
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This. You won't find a Seminole that low unless it is wrecked or has something seriously wrong with it. And flight schools are about the only thing they are good for.
 
Since its slower than all the rest, a Cessna Bobcat should qualify....
 
Henning said:
Hot props are nice, 2 run out engines is what is probably scaring people away.
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That s a very nice looking one. That would be a good one if you were looking to keep it for a while. Not going to be under $60k once you overhaul both engines.

I don't think I'd want to try and keep running those engines without OH though.
 
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Fearless Tower said:
That s a very nice looking one. That would be a good one if you were looking to keep it for a while. Not going to be under $60k once you overhaul both engines.

I don't think I'd want to try and keep running those engines without OH though.
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It depends, 30 year old engines with 2000 hrs could go either way. I'd wait to see if the cam made metal before I tore into it.

I don't much like 6 cylinder Lycomings with carbs though.
 
Henning said:
It depends, 30 year old engines with 2000 hrs could go either way. I'd wait to see if the cam made metal before I tore into it.
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But they aren't 30 year old engines. Look at it again: OH was in 1965. That's 50 years since overhaul!

There was top done in the early to mid 80s.

My point is simply it isn't going to be a short term time builder. You probably aren't going to squeak 100-200 more hours out of it and then sell it. Too much of a chance that you'd get stuck with the engine bill to make it worth it.
 
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Fearless Tower said:
But they aren't 30 year old engines. Look at it again: OH was in 1965. That's 50 years since overhaul!

There was top done in the early to mid 80s.
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Ahh, so that's 3000 on the bottoms. I'd still likely see what the oil analysis shows. Depending on how they have been operated and cared for, there's another potential 1000 hours there. As for 50 years old, I went to sea with a single Atlas Imperial vintage 1927 (world's oldest running Atlas), and have run Miki tugs across the Pacific on their original bottom ends. Old engines don't scare me, neglected engines scare me. This plane isn't striking me as having had a neglected life.
 
What is the scrap value of the Aztec?

How much financial risk is there really?
 
Henning said:
It depends, 30 year old engines with 2000 hrs could go either way. I'd wait to see if the cam made metal before I tore into it.

I don't much like 6 cylinder Lycomings with carbs though.
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much better than a 6 cylinder TCM....:mad2:
 
JoseCuervo said:
What is the scrap value of the Aztec?

How much financial risk is there really?
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Basically that's pretty close to salvage value if the engines aren't making metal. Actually, if it's in really good condition, you'd make money on the salvage. The props are worth over half of that.
 
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An older 310 under 60 will cost huge money at the first annual. I know of a few apaches out there that are pretty good deals around 50 but again these are not cheap to annual correctly. the seminoles are unobtainium unless they are timed out and therefore junk when you are finished. the idea here is to buy a 60K twin, fly it for 100 hrs and sell it for 60 when you are done. SOOO find the best one to start with. twin comanches are cheap right now due to the inability to insure them unless you have lots of twin time and even then, they have a 10K deductible for gear ins or collapses. Travelers and older barons are very obtainable right now and the gear systems are pretty reliable.
good luck!!
 
Bang for the buck what little I know about twins I think I'd want to go with a twinkie.

Cheap oil won't be here forever.

The Aztec's at our field I see the guys working and working and working on them constantly. Maybe they're not good ones, but they sure appear to need a lot of maintenance.
 
txflyer said:
Bang for the buck what little I know about twins I think I'd want to go with a twinkie.

Cheap oil won't be here forever.

The Aztec's at our field I see the guys working and working and working on them constantly. Maybe they're not good ones, but they sure appear to need a lot of maintenance.
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How much maintenance a plane gets is not necessarily well indicating of how much it needs. That has more to do with the quality of the person working on it, and the maintenance and operating philosophy of the owner.

I maintained a lawyer's T210, he used it to commute weekly LV-LGB. He dropped it in front of the hangar every trip for a full inspection and repair any squawks he had or we found. Never was there nothing found, rarely was something substantial found (nothing ever got to that point), but he was a "I didn't buy this plane to go slow" ROP kind of guy, so lots of fussy valve stuff and a jug here and there. If you ever saw the plane on LGB it was likely being worked on. That would have been a great plane to buy, it didn't need a lot of maintenance, but it got a lot. That's one end of the spectrum.

Then you have the end where the mechanic can never manage to fix a problem, or the owner doesn't want to spend the money to do it right.

Hard to tell which case it is just because you see them working on it all the time.
 
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Henning said:
The TCM plenum is way better, and I'm not particularly keen on them with a carb either. Either with FI is just fine, it's mostly about the ability to get lean evenly.
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Ok a fuel injected Lycoming would be better than a carb'd engine any day. I'd still prefer a Lycoming. Much better cylinders.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Henning when were you a mechanic for a lawyer? :lol::rofl:
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That time was working for Foley's on LGB, but I have been the mechanic for many lawyers and even a judge on various cars and yachts as well. I don't fear lawyers, I have nothing they can sue me for. :lol:
 
$60k and annualed :goofy:

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coloradobluesky said:
Whats the fuel burn on a Beech 18?
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I think the engines are 450hp per side so 900hp total times 55% cruise equal about 500hp times 0.5 pounds per hp BSFC equal 250 pounds per hour or just over 40 gph total.
 
alfadog said:
$60k and annualed :goofy:
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Got to read the fine print: it's been out of annual for a year, but they'll give you a fresh annual IF you buy it.

If you think that is a good deal, I have a few bridges I could sell you with great return on investment!
 
Fearless Tower said:
Got to read the fine print: it's been out of annual for a year, but they'll give you a fresh annual IF you buy it.

If you think that is a good deal, I have a few bridges I could sell you with great return on investment!
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I don't think I said anything essentially different. And I think I expressed what I think of someone seriously buying that with the emoticon. That said, if you're looking for somewhere interesting to spend all your money, well there you go.
 
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