DesertNomad
Pattern Altitude
The biggest airport I've landed at in my Dakota was Havana, Cuba which cost about $350... Atlanta sounds cheap at $50.
Best time for a Touch n Go at ATL?
- Thread starter RyanB
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I just logged my first Bravo airport back in June flying in to KPHL. I did it mid-day. It was really quite easy though if you're not familiar with flying in and around a Bravo, especially a busy bravo, it can certainly be daunting.
I would recommend doing it IFR; it's just easier. Particularly for a busier airport like KATL. When I was flying out on the West Coast, I did a bunch of night flights over the LA Basin and LAX regularly had planes lined up well out over the mountains. The line to get into LAX tended to start at LAS, 200NM away so I cant imagine they'd be "happy" to work me in, in my slow piston, if I had just shown up VFR. Even calling ahead VFR seems sketchy since there's no real guarantee of when you'll make it there and they aren't actively sequencing you until you "pop up" with the approach controller to get in. Sure they might know you're coming and can advise on the best time to come (or not come) but what if they have a shift change, change of station or even just a bathroom break or if you get delayed or decide to change your plans; its not like they are going to create a hole and hold it open for you until you decide to show up.
If you dont want to do IFR or IFR the whole way, you can do like I did. I actually flew VFR to KTTN 30NM away and then picked up an IFR clearance out of KTTN. If you do that, I would recommend trying to put into an airport with an operating control tower since they'll give you a hold for release and get you airborne once they've made the space for you. Doing it out of a non-towered airport presents many of the same issues as popping up VFR, sure you're giving ATC some notice that you're coming but they cant really control when you take-off or arrive all that well.
I dont remember the exact landing fees at KPHL but remember the total came out to $75 which included the landing fee, security fee and ramp fee (which was ultimately waived as I got fuel since it was a rental plane and I was reimbursed some of that cost). As others have commented, if KATL is something you really want to do, I wouldn't let a $50-75 landing fee stop me. I might give pause if the landing fee was significantly over $100 but then I haven't found an airport yet with a landing/security/ramp/handling fee that high for my single-engine piston piper.
As to the people questioning why Bravo's are a bucket list item for so many? Well why do you want to land at the airports that you want to land at? I would hazard a guess that for most its likely because its an experience not many have. Bravo airports are no different in that not many GA pilots go into the big airports so landing at A bravo airport does seem like a fairly normal bucket list item just to be able to say you've done it. Fewer still can say they've landed at all of the Bravos (or at least at all the one's you possibly can considering NKX-Miramar and ADW-Andrews are military bases and some others are just not really feasible [LGA] and/or require a lot of additional effort [DCA] for GA) but that's a loftier goal and I dont know that I'd set out with that goal in mind so much as I would keep it in the back of my head, avail myself of the ability to land at a Bravo I have yet to land at any time the opportunity presents and maybe once I hit a significant majority of them then set out to cross whichever ones remain off the list.
I would recommend doing it IFR; it's just easier. Particularly for a busier airport like KATL. When I was flying out on the West Coast, I did a bunch of night flights over the LA Basin and LAX regularly had planes lined up well out over the mountains. The line to get into LAX tended to start at LAS, 200NM away so I cant imagine they'd be "happy" to work me in, in my slow piston, if I had just shown up VFR. Even calling ahead VFR seems sketchy since there's no real guarantee of when you'll make it there and they aren't actively sequencing you until you "pop up" with the approach controller to get in. Sure they might know you're coming and can advise on the best time to come (or not come) but what if they have a shift change, change of station or even just a bathroom break or if you get delayed or decide to change your plans; its not like they are going to create a hole and hold it open for you until you decide to show up.
If you dont want to do IFR or IFR the whole way, you can do like I did. I actually flew VFR to KTTN 30NM away and then picked up an IFR clearance out of KTTN. If you do that, I would recommend trying to put into an airport with an operating control tower since they'll give you a hold for release and get you airborne once they've made the space for you. Doing it out of a non-towered airport presents many of the same issues as popping up VFR, sure you're giving ATC some notice that you're coming but they cant really control when you take-off or arrive all that well.
I dont remember the exact landing fees at KPHL but remember the total came out to $75 which included the landing fee, security fee and ramp fee (which was ultimately waived as I got fuel since it was a rental plane and I was reimbursed some of that cost). As others have commented, if KATL is something you really want to do, I wouldn't let a $50-75 landing fee stop me. I might give pause if the landing fee was significantly over $100 but then I haven't found an airport yet with a landing/security/ramp/handling fee that high for my single-engine piston piper.
As to the people questioning why Bravo's are a bucket list item for so many? Well why do you want to land at the airports that you want to land at? I would hazard a guess that for most its likely because its an experience not many have. Bravo airports are no different in that not many GA pilots go into the big airports so landing at A bravo airport does seem like a fairly normal bucket list item just to be able to say you've done it. Fewer still can say they've landed at all of the Bravos (or at least at all the one's you possibly can considering NKX-Miramar and ADW-Andrews are military bases and some others are just not really feasible [LGA] and/or require a lot of additional effort [DCA] for GA) but that's a loftier goal and I dont know that I'd set out with that goal in mind so much as I would keep it in the back of my head, avail myself of the ability to land at a Bravo I have yet to land at any time the opportunity presents and maybe once I hit a significant majority of them then set out to cross whichever ones remain off the list.
bluerooster
Pattern Altitude
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shorty
Sinistar
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Brad
I've got a landing at the MSP Bravo all researched and ready to go. Someone here told me that it would have to be a full stop. More importantly, they pointed me to the A/FD which for MSP indicates no training flights but does not specifically rule out touch and go's... which are probably called training flights. So I will just full stop and pull into Signature. It will probably be right around $100 to say I did it but I will get 8gal of 100LL out of the deal.
So I looked at ATL's A/FD and it includes this statement:
"All rwys, touch and go ops, low apchs, and practice inst apchs not permitted".
More specific than ours but pretty much the same thing. So unless the tower deviates from this, looks like it full stop or no landing (unless emergency of course).
I'm gonna try for a landing while the sun is up. I'm thinking my odds of a landing deviation are like 200x worse at night since I've never landed in a sea of lights like these places have.
So I looked at ATL's A/FD and it includes this statement:
"All rwys, touch and go ops, low apchs, and practice inst apchs not permitted".
More specific than ours but pretty much the same thing. So unless the tower deviates from this, looks like it full stop or no landing (unless emergency of course).
I'm gonna try for a landing while the sun is up. I'm thinking my odds of a landing deviation are like 200x worse at night since I've never landed in a sea of lights like these places have.
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
I think it is simply a matter of what someone finds interesting in aviation. Actually landing on a long, wide runway isn't the hard part of landing at a Bravo. For some folks, it is the radio work. For others, it is fitting in with heavy iron (if you can work in wake mitigation at a Bravo, the GV you get stuck behind at your local airport will be a breeze). For others, it is the challenge of flying under less than perfect conditions and getting to test your ability to control your aircraft under those conditions. It is super easy to shoot a textbook Category A approach into your local Delta, fully configured for the approach 2 miles from the FAF. At a Bravo, with a "keep your speed up" and wake mitigation, it really can test you.
You can get that waived with a relatively modest amount of fuel. Though, it would still be $7.49 a gallon at the cheapest (Signature 50 cents off weekends).
MCI really has no business as a B. It should really be a C. Huge, beautiful field without a ton of commercial traffic.
BrianNC
En-Route
I saw in a video recently where someone landed at ATL in a C210 and they didn't have any avgas, and said they hadn't for several months, possibly to discourage GA traffic. When he took off he had to go east over to CVC to get avgas.
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
They publish an AvGas price, which means it is on offer. @Martin Pauly did a video into KSFO and had the handling fee waived by Signature because they publish an AvGas price and didn't have any when he went. Signature, for all their foibles, is good about that sort of thing. The major US airport I know of that very clearly doesn't publish an AvGas price and the FBOs make clear that it isn't on offer is LAX.
BrianNC
En-Route
From July. About the 14 second mark: "We're at Signature FBO. They don't have any avgas...they've been out for months..."
Don't know if it's still not available.
It never hurts to call an FBO ahead of time, ask about what they have available and what sort of discounts they can offer. Sometimes they have weekend fuel discounts, even at Class B airports.
If you don't ask, you'll pay the maximum possible amount.
- Martin
If you don't ask, you'll pay the maximum possible amount.
- Martin
Okay, so I’m revisiting this thread because I’m thinking now is my chance to do this, and I might even be able to slide in during the day with as low of traffic volume as it appears on FlightAware.
So, I’m going to call the tower tomorrow to see what they recommend, but here’s my question... I’m not needing any services from the FBO, I just want to land and then taxi back for departure, is that possible? If I have to land and taxi into the FBO to pay some landing fee I’m going to bag it, but if I can just land and taxi back that would be ideal.
So, I’m going to call the tower tomorrow to see what they recommend, but here’s my question... I’m not needing any services from the FBO, I just want to land and then taxi back for departure, is that possible? If I have to land and taxi into the FBO to pay some landing fee I’m going to bag it, but if I can just land and taxi back that would be ideal.
455 Bravo Uniform
Final Approach
I don’t see why you couldn’t land and taxi back.
I did an IFR actual training flight to IND 2 weeks ago, did exactly that. We picked up our return clearance on the 10 minute taxi, lol.
I did an IFR actual training flight to IND 2 weeks ago, did exactly that. We picked up our return clearance on the 10 minute taxi, lol.
Let us know what you find out. I've been wondering the same. Might be the perfect time for a landing at ATL. I missed my opportunity several years ago when I was flying over late at night. Wasn't thinking about how late it was until I was over the airport and saw nothing going on.
I want to get out and do a little flying anyway.
Wilco!
Have you called the FBO? Or maybe just write down their number. I'm sure they will let you give your CC number over the phone instead of walking in if they need to collect landing fees and such. Better over the phone than the radio.
Haven’t called them yet, but I would expect them to say that I’ll need to swing into their ramp, even if I don’t need their services, which is why I was wanting to get a hold of tower to see what they actually require. Like I say, if they stick everyone for a landing and handling fee just to do a full stop taxi back, I’ll probably scratch the idea.
Maybe we could get a POA touch-n-go line going on one of the 5 runways.
Since we can't get in groups of more than 10 and need to observe the 6' of social distancing.
It shouldn't be a problem for the tower and approach control. ATL (and probably all the rest) are barely in use right now. One of my friends works there and says "the airport is dead". We can see the planes arriving and departing at night from our rooftop deck. Lately it's hard to find any planes at all. Normally we can see lines of them, especially when they are landing to the west. Plus many more flying around in the area. Now, there are just a few every now and then.
Since we can't get in groups of more than 10 and need to observe the 6' of social distancing.
It shouldn't be a problem for the tower and approach control. ATL (and probably all the rest) are barely in use right now. One of my friends works there and says "the airport is dead". We can see the planes arriving and departing at night from our rooftop deck. Lately it's hard to find any planes at all. Normally we can see lines of them, especially when they are landing to the west. Plus many more flying around in the area. Now, there are just a few every now and then.
Yeah, that’s why I was thinking this would be a good time to do this. I might try to call the FBO after dinner and see what they say.Maybe we could get a POA touch-n-go line going on one of the 5 runways.
Since we can't get in groups of more than 10 and need to observe the 6' of social distancing.
It shouldn't be a problem for the tower and approach control. ATL (and probably all the rest) are barely in use right now. One of my friends works there and says "the airport is dead". We can see the planes arriving and departing at night from our rooftop deck. Lately it's hard to find any planes at all. Normally we can see lines of them, especially when they are landing to the west. Plus many more flying around in the area. Now, there are just a few every now and then.
Maybe we could get a POA touch-n-go line going on one of the 5 runways.
Well, one of those runways is full of parked airliners, so don’t use that one.
bflynn
Final Approach
Hartsfield Jackson area traffic, Bugsmasher 334 is 3 miles out on a 45 for 8 left, traffic in the area, please advise, Hartsfield Jackson.
Listening to the tower right now, it sounds really quiet.
Well, one of those runways is full of parked airliners, so don’t use that one.
Forgot that that was happening. They are probably parked out on the 5th runway.
With how light the traffic is right now I imagine it would be really easy to fit in some GA traffic.
Sinistar
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Brad
I don't think you re going to get that Touch N Go unless they are in a good mood. From post #84. From ATL's AF/D
"All rwys, touch and go ops, low apchs, and practice inst apchs not permitted".
...they want their landing fee and apparently don't want training there. But I am sure Signature or whoever is there will happily take you full stop, process the $$ landing fee (hopefully under $40 for a small plane) and they'll probably want $80 or so for ramp fee or convert to $8/gal 100LL if they have it. Some Signature FBO's will reduce 100LL a decent amount on weekends.
"All rwys, touch and go ops, low apchs, and practice inst apchs not permitted".
...they want their landing fee and apparently don't want training there. But I am sure Signature or whoever is there will happily take you full stop, process the $$ landing fee (hopefully under $40 for a small plane) and they'll probably want $80 or so for ramp fee or convert to $8/gal 100LL if they have it. Some Signature FBO's will reduce 100LL a decent amount on weekends.
A touch n go is not allowed.
Do you have to go to the FBO, or just taxi back to the beginning? While I'd rather touch-n-go, I'm fine with taxiing back. Nail the speed and it won't be too far.
I'm planning on going flying tomorrow. Maybe I'll swing by ATL and get a landing in.
It's not going to get much better than right now to get one in. Too bad there's no IMC tomorrow or I could get an approach into ATL in too.
It's not going to get much better than right now to get one in. Too bad there's no IMC tomorrow or I could get an approach into ATL in too.
Sinistar
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Brad
How else will they collect the landing fee?
When I called the TRACON, they told me that touch and goes are not allowed, it has to be a full stop, so I’m assuming a full stop - taxi back would be acceptable.
Let me know if you do get a landing in there. I still haven’t been able to get a hold of anyone at the tower. Curious to hear a PIREP.I'm planning on going flying tomorrow. Maybe I'll swing by ATL and get a landing in.
It's not going to get much better than right now to get one in. Too bad there's no IMC tomorrow or I could get an approach into ATL in too.
Stop talking, just do it already!
BrianNC
En-Route
I'm planning on going flying tomorrow. Maybe I'll swing by ATL and get a landing in.
It's not going to get much better than right now to get one in. Too bad there's no IMC tomorrow or I could get an approach into ATL in too.
Seriously, do it. All they can do is say yes or no. Just request a landing and taxi-back either they'll ok it or they won't. They're great about clearing VFR traffic into the class B. I can't see why they wouldn't do it other than you needing to go to the FBO.
BrianNC
En-Route
And don't forget the GoPro! Or at least somebody in the right seat with an iPhone videoing.
And if you need a right-seater just let me know.
Wilco! You can bet that it will be video’d when I do it!And don't forget the GoPro! Or at least somebody in the right seat with an iPhone videoing.
And if you need a right-seater just let me know.
That would be great. I don't have a GoPro and I doubt my wife would like to go just for giggles. If we're going on a trip she's all-in, but just fartin' around, "you go have fun".
Brian, if it weren't for the COIVD-19 issue I'd be more than happy to take you. Right now I'm not sure I want to take anyone else. Quite possibly more for the ninnies than the risk:
One county in Kentucky actually put a form on a website to report people that might not be doing social distancing.
BrianNC
En-Route
That would be great. I don't have a GoPro and I doubt my wife would like to go just for giggles. If we're going on a trip she's all-in, but just fartin' around, "you go have fun".
Brian, if it weren't for the COIVD-19 issue I'd be more than happy to take you. Right now I'm not sure I want to take anyone else. Quite possibly more for the ninnies than the risk:
View attachment 84237
One county in Kentucky actually put a form on a website to report people that might not be doing social distancing.
So I'm assuming you didn't do it today since you don't mention it in your post?
Nope, ended up working on my wife’s closet. Plannng on flying tomorrow morning.
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Well, one of those runways is full of parked airliners, so don’t use that one.
From the NOTAMs it looks like two of them are closed.
Skywalker
Cleared for Takeoff
He is on his way back now! I am disappointed though - no IFR approach and only one touch and go before returning home...
A C150 was doing traffic patterns in Detroit Metropolitan (DTW) yesterday. It’s super quite in the Detroit area right now...
A C150 was doing traffic patterns in Detroit Metropolitan (DTW) yesterday. It’s super quite in the Detroit area right now...
Weird, His flight doesn’t show when I pull it up on flight aware.