Best options for a current 141 student to switch

[Albany Tom]

Posting this to provide some unsolicited help to a friend of mine. He has a son in local community college aviation program, 1 semester in, and the kid is doing great but the program seems to be struggling a bit. Partly weather, partly seems management, not looking to toss any group under the bus here, and I don't have all that much info anyway. All I'm certain of is - he's a semester in and his current status is "waiting for PPL checkride", along with most of the rest of the class. It's behind schedule for the class and seems incredibly slow to me. Pretty sure it's a 141 setup.

Right now they're working on a couple options, including staying put, and maybe ATP in Arizona, largely to avoid the NY weather.

So... In true POA form, I haven't searched through all the forums, and I'm fully expecting responses that include "buy a champ and learn at home". But in all seriousness, does anyone have recommendations on how much of a PITA it is to switch to another 141 setup, and of places that have their act together at a reasonable price? Oh, the goal is a career in commercial aviation, he's right out of high school, and I don't believe interested in the military.

Thanks in advance!

 

[saddletramp]

Perhaps the pace & demands of a 141 school are a bit much right now. I used to instruct an airport that was 20 miles from another airport that had a well know community college part141 flight program. We used to inherit some of their "washouts". Most of them went on & became great pilots. The more relaxed atmosphere of our Part 61 school seems to appeal to them. Just a thought.

 

[Albany Tom]

Oh, he's doing great when he can get flight time. Sorry, I didn't explain it well. They're often down to 0 or 1 plane ready to fly, for whatever reason. He can't get the time/hours in, and neither can anyone else. I don't think the school planned it that way, just they're over-committed or understaffed on maintenance or something.

 

[Clip4]

Posting this to provide some unsolicited help to a friend of mine. He has a son in local community college aviation program, 1 semester in, and the kid is doing great but the program seems to be struggling a bit. Partly weather, partly seems management, not looking to toss any group under the bus here, and I don't have all that much info anyway. All I'm certain of is - he's a semester in and his current status is "waiting for PPL checkride", along with most of the rest of the class. It's behind schedule for the class and seems incredibly slow to me. Pretty sure it's a 141 setup.

Right now they're working on a couple options, including staying put, and maybe ATP in Arizona, largely to avoid the NY weather.

So... In true POA form, I haven't searched through all the forums, and I'm fully expecting responses that include "buy a champ and learn at home". But in all seriousness, does anyone have recommendations on how much of a PITA it is to switch to another 141 setup, and of places that have their act together at a reasonable price? Oh, the goal is a career in commercial aviation, he's right out of high school, and I don't believe interested in the military.

Thanks in advance!

Is this kids family writing the checks for school/flight training or is he on loans and assistance?

 

[Tools]

You can only transfer 50 percent to the next 141 school. So... find a 141 school you like and have him train under 61 rules, where there is no restriction on credit transfer. Once PPL, re-enroll in 141 if you like.

It’s the FAA, just the way it is. It’s the same training, same knowledge, just different rules for the SCHOOL.

If it’s a 141 associated with a college and an accredited degree, you should still be able to use tuition assistance even if being trained under 61 rules. If you’re paying out of pocket, this is a no brainer.

 

[Clip4]

You can only transfer 50 percent to the next 141 school. So... find a 141 school you like and have him train under 61 rules, where there is no restriction on credit transfer. Once PPL, re-enroll in 141 if you like.

It’s the FAA, just the way it is. It’s the same training, same knowledge, just different rules for the SCHOOL.

If it’s a 141 associated with a college and an accredited degree, you should still be able to use tuition assistance even if being trained under 61 rules. If you’re paying out of pocket, this is a no brainer.

The 141 regulation on transfer credit is limited to 25%. To receive tuition assistance you have to be in an accredited college program and those programs are 141.

At Community Colleges, the pilot training is usually a minor for some type of Aviation Technology Degree. You can use the assistance to get the degree, but have to go out of pocket for flight training outside the college program.

 

[Tools]

I think 25 percent is transferring in 61 credit. I think it’s 50 from another 141... helps a little.

 

[Albany Tom]

Is this kids family writing the checks for school/flight training or is he on loans and assistance?

Pretty sure this is 100% out of pocket for them.

 

[Albany Tom]

Thanks for all of this, guys. So if he transfers from the current 141, to another 141, he's going to lose half those hours. That's going to a hit, but likely better than staying put and having this process drag on for years.

Can anyone recommend a 141 school that doesn't mind taking a transfer, and where a student is likely to be able to get some instruction time their after they get their commercial and CFI?

 

[dmspilot]

The 141 regulation on transfer credit is limited to 25%.

14 CFR 141.77 (c) A student may be given credit towards the curriculum requirements of a course for previous training under the following conditions: (1) If the student completed a proficiency test and knowledge test that was conducted by the receiving pilot school and the previous training was based on a part 141- or a part 142-approved flight training course, the credit is limited to not more than 50 percent of the flight training requirements of the curriculum.

 

[Tools]

It would be unusual for them to NOT take a transfer. Would have to be specifically written into their TCO that they don’t...

And any 141 school can train under part 61.

I only know all this arcane stuff because I’m currently writing all the docs to convert a part 61 school to part 141. I’d be happy to talk with them directly if it would help them. Just ping me back channel.

All the hour transfer credit and such only applies to THEM and their ability to credit the student with proper training to recommend for a practical. The student NEVER loses any hours, experience, what ever.

If a student isn’t doing well, many schools will remove them from 141 enrollment and continue under 61 so it doesn’t affect their pass rate which is important for conversion from provisional school to school, and to get and maintain designation authority.

All this is transparent to the student. It DOES matter if he wants to take advantage of reduced hour benefits, such as getting commercial at 190 instead of 250 hrs, and the atp at 1250 instead of 1500. If a pilot has their own plane, and building those 60 or 250 hrs isn’t a huge deal, then again, won’t matter.

I don’t think it really matters from a resume point of view. What say the group on this?

 

[Tarheelpilot]

The easiest transition occurs at the completion of the certificate currently in progress. Finish the private and decide. If elect to stay the next decision gate is at completion of instrument. Not saying he can’t leave other times just that this is the easiest time to transfer.

 

[Albany Tom]

Thanks guys...truly appreciate the info.