Best batteries for today's ANR headsets.

I apologize that my first hand real world experience that I am sharing does not measure up and is inadequate to your analytical data that you read from some online article.

From the source YOU posted:

"As you can see, testing and comparing batteries is not as straightforward as having a magical unit where you can plug the cell in and a number comes up. Depending on how you test the battery, you can end up with a different result, and not all results are likely to be equivalent or even meaningful depending on the final application of the cells"

Would energizers work just as well?...probably, but for us it is also a brand standard so that when I need to send someone out to a local store to grab some more batteries they are not making a subjective choice and we know what we are gonna get.

Understood. You sidestepped the question posed (when was the last time you tested any of them if you only buy one brand) and also ignored that I wasn’t speaking at all of Energizer or Rayovac specifically.

“Years of experience” sending some guy to the store to buy the same thing, isn’t applicable test data. It’s just a habit.

Not necessarily a bad habit, as I said, Duracell are fine, just a habit.

We’ve also at least gotten to the reality that this AV worker habit is applicable to wireless mics, and has almost nothing to do with the duty cycle seen in an aviation headset. You were dead set against rechargeables, and many here seem to indicate that in Aviation headsets, they’re good, maybe even superior for the task.

Funny thing is, I’m a Duracell guy also, and for the same reasons as you. They work well and consistently in AV gear. But I don’t cheat and say they are the only good option for other applications.

That lack of cheating comes from having designed various electronic gadgets on my workbench and testing. Duracell isn’t always the right answer.

For AV people, it’s the old “when all you have is a hammer” problem, when talking batteries. They’ve always had a massive box full of fresh Pro cells sitting backstage if their supply chain isn’t screwed up, and WalMart consumer Duracells in a pinch.

I doubt you’ve “hand metered” ten other battery brands in a decade? Am I right? :)

“I’ve got 10,000 hours of flight time... in the pattern doing T&G...” :) :) :)
 
Am I right?

No, you are not right....and you have made some gross inaccurate assumptions in your quest to discredit my sharing of real world experience and why they are the best choice for us. I am sharing what I have learned through experience...not read on the internet.

Try adding value to the conversation rather than making POA a place no none wants to contribute to in your quest to be correct.
 
Holy crap - even a thread about headset batteries can turn into a penis measuring contest!
 
No, you are not right....and you have made some gross inaccurate assumptions in your quest to discredit my sharing of real world experience and why they are the best choice for us. I am sharing what I have learned through experience...not read on the internet.

Try adding value to the conversation rather than making POA a place no none wants to contribute to in your quest to be correct.

Holy crap - even a thread about headset batteries can turn into a penis measuring contest!

It helps if idiots read what was posted. I said the public third party evidence doesn’t match his “experience” (of which he didn’t provide any new public data or evidence).

The statement is still accurate. All he’s provided so far is that he sends the random kid to the store to get Duracells because that’s they way AV people do it.

Which is fine. It has nothing to do with the public testing or solid numbers available showing there’s plenty of brands that equal Duracells.

Nor does his experience apply whatsoever to aviation headsets and their typical current draw configuration. A wireless mic has a completely different power draw.

“Best choice for our AV mic use, because we’ve always done it that way and we always use a particular brand out of habit” is accurate.

No evidence has been presented that it applies in any meaningful way to aviation headsets. Or actual data that the brand is better than all possible options.

Which is all I said in the first place. It’s hard to read, I know.
 
Where has he been and why did he leave?

In his quest to always be right and argue every fact, he came across as a royal Delta Bravo completely missing the point of the conversation (see 2 posts above) rather then contributing to the conversations and eventually got called out on it and left.

My point simply was that there is more to batteries than longevity and shared multiple reasons why WE use and trust a particular brand.

Since I cannot back up my actual lifetime of experience with a paper graph chart done by some other guy on the internet, Captain Delta Bravo above is hell bent on making a point and turning it into a ****ing match with inaccurate assumptions for some reason.

Give it a rest...no wonder this site is dying.
 
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The ones from Harbor Frieght. They are not very good batteries, but who cares. They give away free with a coupon.
 
IIRC Lightspeed recommends against using rechargeable batteries in their headsets, but I have had no issues with either a Zulu 2 or a Sierra.

Why does Lightspeed recommend against using rechargeables? I have a Zulu.2, and saw that the User Guide recommends that they not be used, but the Guide didn’t say why. I fly once a week or so, and if I used rechargeables, I’d simply recharge them each night before a flight, and then not be concerned about whether my batteries were going to die while I’m flying (which happened to me once).
 
Why does Lightspeed recommend against using rechargeables? I have a Zulu.2, and saw that the User Guide recommends that they not be used, but the Guide didn’t say why. I fly once a week or so, and if I used rechargeables, I’d simply recharge them each night before a flight, and then not be concerned about whether my batteries were going to die while I’m flying (which happened to me once).

Two factors may come into play: NIMH batteries have much greater self-discharge than alkaline batteries, making them less desirable for infrequent or episodic use as capacity declines whether or not you use them. The other factor is that NIMH batteries deliver only 1.2 V for most of their discharge cycle. (To be fair, alkalines start out at 1.5V, but decline steadily until discharged (which is somewhere around 0.8-0.9 V). My guess is that Lightspeed is concerned about the self-discharge properties: if your batteries are neglected for a fwe weeks, the headset may fail suddenly when the batteries poop out--and NIMH batteries decline in voltage rapidly near the end of their rated capacity, compared to alkalines.
 
In my small and limited crossovers with the entertainment industry/pro sound world I can verify that Shawn is correct: Duracell is the brand you'll see everywhere. Not somewhere - everywhere. I would also tend to trust the suggestion of someone in his position with that kind of real world experience. Words from the horse's mouth have always been the most reliable in my experience, especially when it comes to papers written on technical performance which are almost invariably skewed or flawed in some way. Just go with what everyone knows actually works and stop wasting your time, is my perspective. But hey, do whatcha want.

That said, I just use whatever batteries I can grab from work. LOL. There's a big bin of them which the company keeps stocked up for us. Pretty sure they're a Duracell lithium battery of some kind. I keep AAAs for my QC15/uflymike and AAs for my A20s.
 
Always been a fan of these, holds AAs and also 123s for flashlights, also fully enclosed for leaks and can be linked to another case of you need to carry a ton of batteries for some reason.

image.jpg


https://tripleaughtdesign.com/shop/battery-case/

For storing larger quantities I've heard plastic ammo boxes are the way to go.


cat-rifle-ammo-box.jpg
 
In my small and limited crossovers with the entertainment industry/pro sound world I can verify that Shawn is correct: Duracell is the brand you'll see everywhere. Not somewhere - everywhere. I would also tend to trust the suggestion of someone in his position with that kind of real world experience. Words from the horse's mouth have always been the most reliable in my experience, especially when it comes to papers written on technical performance which are almost invariably skewed or flawed in some way. Just go with what everyone knows actually works and stop wasting your time, is my perspective. But hey, do whatcha want.

That said, I just use whatever batteries I can grab from work. LOL. There's a big bin of them which the company keeps stocked up for us. Pretty sure they're a Duracell lithium battery of some kind. I keep AAAs for my QC15/uflymike and AAs for my A20s.

That’s all that entire industry is doing, is “grabbing whatever batteries they can from work”. LOL. It’s a habit. And not a bad one, but not based in recent science or studies. Just a minor balance sheet item that nobody bothers with anymore out of simplicity.

Chemistry is chemistry. If the battery is made to a specific spec, it’ll perform the same as one with another label on it. What that business does is avoid any inconsistency by sticking to a brand.

If Duracell quadrupled the price of their batteries overnight in an effort to capitalize on the AV industry habit, the industry would switch. Plenty of batteries out there the perform as well as those do.

Tons and tons of electronics use Panasonic stuff, from alarm systems in critical places, to what’s provided in the box with a product. And proximity of the manufacturing plants to one another. Another industry sector’s habit.

Every sector has their battery habits. If you move out of alkaline, huge numbers of data centers use C&D or brands made by Johnson Controls and the many brand names they’ve acquired over the years.

You can’t budge them off of their habitual brand name due to validation bias, if you offered an identical product at half price. The only time they move off of a brand is in the price gouging scenario, and then they move almost overnight.

It’d be super easy for the AV world to demand electronics that were well-behaved to the discharge curves of rechargeable cells. They’d have the clout to get it. Nope, toss out hundreds of thousands of Duracells a year for powering microphones.

We have had the tech down for a long time to properly handle rechargeable, and not the way consumer gadgets fry rechargeable cells at a known slow death rate.

There’s satellites on orbit that have NiCD chemistry on board and have had almost no degradation of their cells in over a decade, often two, with irregular solar panel based charging. It’s about nailing the exact charge and discharge numbers down and designing to them.

Not that hard to figure out, but habits die hard.

AV sector would complain that it would be impossible to do the long recharge times needed between shows while traveling, but considering the amount of logistics that goes into any show setup and tear down, making sure batteries were on a rotational charge cycle and a customized battery recharge box, wouldn’t be difficult at all, compared to the amount of effort already put in.

Lots of “DieHards” in battery use by industry and sector.

It’s driven by the same brain short circuit that drives: “Choosy mothers, choose Jif!” :)
 
That’s all that entire industry is doing, is “grabbing whatever batteries they can from work”. LOL. It’s a habit. And not a bad one, but not based in recent science or studies. Just a minor balance sheet item that nobody bothers with anymore out of simplicity.

Continual re-evaluation should be a normal part of the cycle, but what works, works. Don't over-think it. You just wrote a book chapter on batteries, dude. LOL.
 
A combination of the amazon basics (28 cents each) and some small 4 AA holders is my current preferred approach. I have had Duracell and Energizer in the headsets before and not noticed any difference in battery life.

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Performance-Alkaline-Batteries-Count/dp/B00MNV8E0C

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TF8FSZ0

I use the Amazon batteries at home. I do think the battery life is a little shorter than the high end Duracell Pro batteries I have from work (I just looked in my little box I keep in my laptop bag and that's what I've been getting when I go to the hangar) but they're so cheap that I don't really care. My household is a consumer of batteries, but not in the high-use category. The Amazon batteries are so inexpensive that whatever performance limitations they may possess aren't noticeable for our application.

As long as we have extra batteries along with us when we fly I really don't think it's too critical which brand we choose for our headsets.
 
Continual re-evaluation should be a normal part of the cycle, but what works, works. Don't over-think it. You just wrote a book chapter on batteries, dude. LOL.

It wasn’t really about the batteries, it was about the broken brained stuff we all do... branding and marketing give that validation message, or co-workers...

“We all use X Brand here”... it’s fun.

So... high wing, or low wing for you? :)
 
So... high wing, or low wing for you? :)

In the software developer world, just rephrase it to be, "So... tabs or spaces?"

And contrary to what some might say, there IS only one right answer :)

EDIT: Along the same line as battery testing, if you're ever building a new PC and are agonizing over the right power supply, this guy does an amazing job testing all kinds of PSU parameters: http://www.jonnyguru.com
 
Two factors may come into play: NIMH batteries have much greater self-discharge than alkaline batteries, making them less desirable for infrequent or episodic use as capacity declines whether or not you use them.

Rapid self discharge is a characteristic of standard NiMH batteries, but not those designed for Low Self Discharge (sometimes called Precharged NiMH). Good ones will retain 90% of their charge for a year, so little chance of being surprised by batteries that have discharged in storage. Worst case just remember to recharge the spares at every annual and they'll always be charged when you need them. I've never had a set die in a headset (all Lightspeeds). As I wrote before, I swap in a set from the spares every 10-20 hrs of flight (when I think of it), recharge the recently used set, and put the recently recharged batteries in with the other spares.
 
It wasn’t really about the batteries, it was about the broken brained stuff we all do... branding and marketing give that validation message, or co-workers...

Learning what works best from experience is not broken-brained.

This is a funny discussion. Over the last twenty years or so I've had variants of this on all kinds of aviation matters, from equipment to everything else under the sun. Most recently it came up regarding the Bose A20. Hey, the A20 is regarded as the best by the market and for good reason. It simply IS the best. Yet, routinely there are accusations made that Bose somehow wins from marketing or brainwashing or something else. Or that people choose to buy them because they're expensive.

LOL. The market doesn't work like that, for headsets or for batteries. Consumers won't part with more money than they have to for products which aren't good. The market inevitably readjusts. Especially in the modern era of online reviews; it just isn't really possible in the long run anymore.

The pro sound industry uses Duracell. I don't really care about that, because to me a good vs. great battery doesn't really make much of a difference. But the fact that guys like Shawn can attest from experience to high performance for their application is a valuable, and real, data point. I pay attention when someone shares that kind of intel.
 
Oh. And by the way, it looks like our "big box of batteries" we keep at the hangar are all Duracell brand, the "PROCELL" model. Perhaps just a coincidence... heh.
 
Learning what works best from experience is not broken-brained.

This is a funny discussion. Over the last twenty years or so I've had variants of this on all kinds of aviation matters, from equipment to everything else under the sun. Most recently it came up regarding the Bose A20. Hey, the A20 is regarded as the best by the market and for good reason. It simply IS the best. Yet, routinely there are accusations made that Bose somehow wins from marketing or brainwashing or something else. Or that people choose to buy them because they're expensive.

LOL. The market doesn't work like that, for headsets or for batteries. Consumers won't part with more money than they have to for products which aren't good. The market inevitably readjusts. Especially in the modern era of online reviews; it just isn't really possible in the long run anymore.

The pro sound industry uses Duracell. I don't really care about that, because to me a good vs. great battery doesn't really make much of a difference. But the fact that guys like Shawn can attest from experience to high performance for their application is a valuable, and real, data point. I pay attention when someone shares that kind of intel.

It really is broken brained. Or more accurately based in evolution that hasn’t quite worked its way out of our DNA yet.

The behavioral economist movement of the last decade or two has shown a number of really broken things like this in virtually all humans. The science behind it was first popularized into public view in the book Freakonomics, but the studies had begun a decade earlier.

Their examples kicked off a lot of thought and research by the next generations of researchers though.

My favorite by far was their experiment to label things that were worth far less than the alternative being sold at well-below-cost, “free!” Humans will by a large margin, pick the thing labeled “free!” over the thing that cost $1 to make and they could buy at a discount for $0.01.

This is what I’m saying when I say “broken brained.” It’s not meant as a judgment or insult (another problem with humans) it’s meant in the literal sense.

The AV industry doesn’t have any published serious science showing their preference for Duracell. Just like the data center industry doesn’t have any for their penchant for C&D, etc. It’s just leftover tribalism in our DNA.

For a number of applications the Bose also isn’t the best choice. :) Some stuff is so noisy that solid passive protection needs to be included with ANR, similar to “doubling up” at the shooting range with earplugs and earmuffs for really loud firearms.

This dude made a funny video about the value thing...


(Actually he’s made several. Over multiple years.)

Broken brained for sure. In his little video thing it’s not a controlled experiment like the studies in behavioral economics, but he’s using the same principals to “trick” people.

Number of things at play. Instant gratification, mistrust of strangers, lack of any sort of fiscal knowledge, chocolate can be enjoyed NOW, no need to go figure out what to do with a bar of silver.... etc etc etc.

But it’s funny. Who’d want $150 when they could have chocolate? I’d be taking the silver bar and saying “thanks!” That’s not to say my brain isn’t as broken, it’s more of a “I have first hand knowledge of this” thing. Especially if I see a guy with a “Sound Money” t-shirt on. LOL.
 
A silver bar or a chocolate bar. Hmmm.....

How about door number three... rob the guy and take the silver, AND the stack of chocolate bars! Gotta think outside the box! :)

But what an interesting experiment. Hard to think that so many people would be that...dense. Not one person took the silver. Wow.
 
But what an interesting experiment. Hard to think that so many people would be that...dense. Not one person took the silver. Wow.

Hmm. I dunno if that’s true about nobody taking it. It’s edited after all. I chuckle at the premise and like to think nobody took it, but always a touch skeptical of a YT video like that. But he does have a bunch of them.

Mostly just posted it because it’s an example of the type of thing the Freakonomics authors tested under controlled conditions (I trust that more than this video), that people make really STRANGE value judgements when the word “free” is added to anything. The current science is that it’s closer related to gifting and trust than economic thought with us silly humans.

This is why I’m big on talking up written budgets. So few do them, but it’ll literally change your brain and how it processes spending. Which leads to other good things.

The downside is, you’ll start to figure out how marketers and governments and all sorts of folks rip people off. The people are still responsible for being ripped off, but there’s amazing techniques when you listen to commercials and analyze them.

We all know the marketing that works. Everybody knows Duracell is “the copper top”. Hasn’t been any copper in the top in decades, but marketing sticks. And a lot of these brands (I’ve never looked into Duracell) aren’t made by the same companies that made the marketing work and the product work well, anyway. They’re bought for their brand names and the actual manufacturing and processes are moved somewhere else and changed.

Some are honest about it, kinda. Apple labels everything “Designed by Apple in California” for example. You’re really buying a Foxconn product. Foxconn ain’t nothing to write home about as a wonderful company, that’s for sure. :)
 
It really is broken brained.

Yeah... no. This has gone too far afield.

We received a good data point from someone who would know, who mined the data from in-depth, personal involvement using the products on a large scale and in an industrial application. That's good information, and I made a note of it for future reference in case it ever becomes directly relevant and useful for mine.
 
Hmm. I dunno if that’s true about nobody taking it. It’s edited after all. I chuckle at the premise and like to think nobody took it, but always a touch skeptical of a YT video like that.

And it's not just YouTube. The late night shows that go out on the street and ask people a really obvious question (Which is closer, the moon or the sun) and everybody picks the wrong answer? You just know we're seeing half of the 5% that picked the sun. And those were picked because they were the most humorous.

Really the question is: Would you rather have a 99% chance for some chocolate or a 1% chance for silver? Because who can look at a bar of silver and know that it's really silver?
 
Yeah... no. This has gone too far afield.

We received a good data point from someone who would know, who mined the data from in-depth, personal involvement using the products on a large scale and in an industrial application. That's good information, and I made a note of it for future reference in case it ever becomes directly relevant and useful for mine.

And he never uses anything else. Hahaha. Choosy moms chose Jif! :)

That was my point about it. It’s one data point, and there’s people who have thousands of data points that show his choice is fine, but there’s a hundred other good choices, because battery chemistry is still battery chemistry.
 
Fresh off a scary alkaline leakage near miss, I decided to revisit this OLD THREAD to give some background. Yes, batt leakage sucks, but that's not the real point. It occurred to me that I've been doing some delusional thinking regarding the economics of AAs in headsets. I use a Bose Proflight II which costs about a grand. Two AAs, should rarely cost more than $1.50. So why play roulette to see if they go amber before they leak - even if leakage is relatively rare?!? Even if the mfr makes good, it's still weeks of hassle without my chosen headset. I'm now considering preemptive, automatic batt changes 2x per month, or just going to eneloop pros (w/frequent charges). I no longer think squeezing the last pennies out of Batts makes sense if it risks ruining a $1,000 headset, while flying for several hundred dollars an hour! Thoughts or suggestions?
 
Fresh off a scary alkaline leakage near miss, I decided to revisit this OLD THREAD to give some background. Yes, batt leakage sucks, but that's not the real point. It occurred to me that I've been doing some delusional thinking regarding the economics of AAs in headsets. I use a Bose Proflight II which costs about a grand. Two AAs, should rarely cost more than $1.50. So why play roulette to see if they go amber before they leak - even if leakage is relatively rare?!? Even if the mfr makes good, it's still weeks of hassle without my chosen headset. I'm now considering preemptive, automatic batt changes 2x per month, or just going to eneloop pros (w/frequent charges). I no longer think squeezing the last pennies out of Batts makes sense if it risks ruining a $1,000 headset, while flying for several hundred dollars an hour! Thoughts or suggestions?

The sound production business hasn’t messed with alkalines leaking for decades. At the end of every major concert or show you’ll find a bucket full of alkalines removed from every sound device that uses them, after a few hour’s use.

No point in running a risk of a wireless mic failure during a show or even risking even a $200 microphone vs a bulk purchased pro alkaline battery in any way.

Straight in the bin.

Probably a bit much to swap them every flight, but if you don’t fly often, replacement by automated calendar reminder in your smartphone also isn’t a bad idea.

Don’t forget the flight bag flashlight and headlamp in that forced battery calendar rotation, too.
 
Also why do these thousand dollar headsets suck with the ANR off?

I have zulu, Sierra, and Bose.
They are all worse than my 20 year old passive DCs without their ANR turned on.
 
I can tell you I’ve spent way to much time trying to find the best batteries for our Lightspeed PFX’s. We’ve come to the conclusion there is no such thing. It seems like we chance batteries out every couple of flights, Duracell and Energizers seem to be the best, Ray-O-Vac are junk IMO.

Changing out 4 batteries per headset every couple of flights gets annoying, and that’s per headset, the PFX’s take 4 batteries! I switched to in a the ear headset, and I just bought my wife a new set of Zulu 3’s, I’m hoping batteries won’t be as big an issue now.
 
Also why do these thousand dollar headsets suck with the ANR off?

I have zulu, Sierra, and Bose.
They are all worse than my 20 year old passive DCs without their ANR turned on.

If they were good at passive, they’d weigh and feel like Dave Clark’s and ANR would not be needed.
 
Also why do these thousand dollar headsets suck with the ANR off?

I have zulu, Sierra, and Bose.
They are all worse than my 20 year old passive DCs without their ANR turned on.

If they were good at passive, they’d weigh and feel like Dave Clark’s and ANR would not be needed.

Yes, weight, and the old sets are head vices. Much lower clamping pressure with the ANR headsets.
 
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