Best Aircraft for Commercial SEL

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eventualpilot

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eventualpilot
Trying to plan ahead for my SEL Commercial. The flight schools/flying clubs in my area have the below aircraft available. The majority of my time is in steam gauge 152s and 172s.

If cost isn’t a factor, what aircraft should I just use? Is it worth it to get G1000 experience or to have some familiarity with complex and/or high performance? Or should I just go with the cheapest option?

C-182RG, C-172N (TAA - Dual G5s & GFC500), C-172S (TAA - G1000/GFC700), or Piper Arrow?
 
Pick something fun.

Float plane with a CS prop and flaps would be my choice

Combine with seaplane rating
 
If cost isn't a factor, why go with the cheapest option? I think it depends on what you plan on flying after you get your commercial. IMO, the biggest difference is going to be instrument scan PFD-MFD vs steam gauges. It is good to be skilled in both style panels, so I would plan on getting enough instrument time with the G1000 equipped aircraft to be proficient with both scan techniques.
 
eventualpilot said:
Trying to plan ahead for my SEL Commercial. The flight schools/flying clubs in my area have the below aircraft available. The majority of my time is in steam gauge 152s and 172s.

If cost isn’t a factor, what aircraft should I just use? Is it worth it to get G1000 experience or to have some familiarity with complex and/or high performance? Or should I just go with the cheapest option?

C-182RG, C-172N (TAA - Dual G5s & GFC500), C-172S (TAA - G1000/GFC700), or Piper Arrow?
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I did all of my PPL and IR in a 172. Started my Commercial ASEL in a 172, but then switched to a Piper Warrior once I had the maneuvers down.... I really enjoy the way the Piper flies and I prefer it to the 172.

Something cheapest is best though....
 
My CFI says low wing is better suited to the commercial maneuvers.

Definitely get the ten hours in a complex plane if you can.

Learn the glass cockpit if you know you will need it later, if practical.
 
RingLaserGyroSandwich said:
My CFI says low wing is better suited to the commercial maneuvers.

Definitely get the ten hours in a complex plane if you can.

Learn the glass cockpit if you know you will need it later, if practical.
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I don’t get the glass thing, it’s all the same info just in a different place, in many ways it’s easier than a six pack
 
I'd go for the Arrow. Yes, it's the "old school" commercial trainer, but, since most of your previous time is in Cessnas, the low-wing Piper will expand your depth of experience a little more. The Comm rating is all about visual maneuvers anyway, making the glass stuff extra. Sure, at some point, it'd be worthwhile to get some G1000 experience, too, but I'd think that'd be better left to furthering your instrument experience. (Just another internet opinion, for what it's worth!)
 
Nowadays, the most common airplane I see presented by applicants for the purpose of obtaining a commercial pilot certificate with airplane, single-engine land rating is a Cessna 172 or Piper Archer (or equivalent.)

If it were my money, I'd lean towards the most cost-effective option available.
 
I used a C-152 for the SEL commercial, but I did the MEL commercial first.
 
At this point I can't definitively say if cost will be a factor, probably will come down to a number of factors. The G1000 is the most expensive option by a wide margin.

The 172N with dual G5s and GFC500 is the most cost-effective option, with the 182RG about 20% more expensive.
 
James331 said:
I don’t get the glass thing, it’s all the same info just in a different place, in many ways it’s easier than a six pack
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What I don’t get about glass is how somebody who has thousands of hours in jets, at least some of which are glass/TAA, can honestly ask the question, “You mean the autopilot won’t follow the FMS in Heading mode?”
 
MauleSkinner said:
What I don’t get about glass is how somebody who has thousands of hours in jets, at least some of which are glass/TAA, can honestly ask the question, “You mean the autopilot won’t follow the FMS in Heading mode?”
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From what I’ve seen of Corp jet a 121 folks, that doesn’t surprise to too bad lol
 
simple, the cheapest thing that you are comfortable in. its about getting the rating the cheapest way you can. then, flying other airplanes and expanding skills is fun, not result driven.
 
The 182RG is a fun airplane! If it were me, I’d get my ten hours of complex time in that one.
 
Doesn't the low wing give you better visibility for ground reference maneuvers? It is helpful to be able to see in the direction you are turning. In fact, when I recently checked out in a low wing for the first time I felt so spoiled when I was in the pattern and I could actually see the runway while turning! It's also nice not to need to lift your wing to look for traffic before turning at altitude.
 
eventualpilot said:
The 172N with dual G5s and GFC500 is the most cost-effective option, with the 182RG about 20% more expensive.
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And you're used to it? Seems perfect. Personally, I'd place a high priority on the glass experience over swinging gear.

Grum.Man said:
He has a good point. It would for sure make the eights on pylons, steep spiral, and power off 180 precision landings a little easier.
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I just did the CPL ride in a Cirrus. Honestly thinking it through, I don't really see it:
- Eights on pylons, the point will be above the low wing or below the high wing; visible either way.
- Steep spiral, with a low wing the right-seat DPE can't really see the reference point, but it can be harder to see your point. Kind of a wash, I think.
- 180's, you may lose sight for the first 15-30 deg in the base turn, but you're already committed to the turn.
 
Grum.Man said:
He has a good point. It would for sure make the eights on pylons, steep spiral, and power off 180 precision landings a little easier.
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Not sure why. Thousands of people doing them in both every year.

I refrained from saying “stupid”. LOL.
 
ArnoldPalmer said:
really enjoy the way the Piper flies
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Feels much more solid, "tight" and responsive. I'm with you. All the low wings vs high wings I've flown seem to exhibit the same. The high wings always feel less responsive

But for some reason I had a dream last night I bought a 210 and was getting anxious about the spar o_O
 
RE: Glass
-if you can use an ATM machine you can use glass. It's the same information, just easier to access and more "infront" of you as opposed to spread out around a panel. I don't get why people fuss about the panel.
 
MauleSkinner said:
What I don’t get about glass is how somebody who has thousands of hours in jets, at least some of which are glass/TAA, can honestly ask the question, “You mean the autopilot won’t follow the FMS in Heading mode?”
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Or what the various CDI options do.. people will fly an ILS with the thing in magenta line mode and just start descending to minimums.. GPS IS FOR GUIDANCE ONLY!! YOU HAVE TO PRESS THE DAMN CDI BUTTON AND ADJUST THE CRS KNOB!

You can tell no one touches the course knob, it's always much more firm and "new" feeling than the other buttons lol
 
eventualpilot said:
If cost isn’t a factor, what aircraft should I just use?
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Cost is always a factor. Use the cheapest option. Every dime you save now, is one more dime you'll have to make ends meet with once you start trying to survive on what starting pilots make. I know things are different now than they were 20 years ago, but I don't think they're all that different. Having 10-20 hours of retract time in your book could turn out to be an advantage down the road. I'd be very surprised if anyone out there were to pass on you and give the job to someone else simply because they had 20 hours of G1000 experience and you didn't.
 
Grum.Man said:
But it is for the stated reasons. :rolleyes:
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Negated by other reasons stated.

He’s got a personal preference, but having done all of the maneuvers in both, he’s also flat wrong. :)

Annnd... if he can’t do them equally in both... he should work on that. Fly whatever the student wants. It shouldn’t be their problem if you can’t teach them equally in either one.

And that’s me, Mr “I love high wings” talkin’. I’ve got no preference at all on these maneuvers. They’re simple enough in both, with various different sight picture challenges for the student.

Unless flying something the wing is behind you, it’s going to get in the way of something, one way or the other. And it’ll also act as a good and bad target for sight lines depending on bank. No big deal.

Same issues as the private ground reference and horizon reference maneuvers.

People pass checkrides every day in both with no significant thinking hard or whining about either one, outside of personal preference. Instructor having one is normal. Instructor saying one is truly easier than the other, isn’t.

Could do it in a biplane for more fun, I suppose. :)
 
eventualpilot said:
Trying to plan ahead for my SEL Commercial. The flight schools/flying clubs in my area have the below aircraft available. The majority of my time is in steam gauge 152s and 172s.

If cost isn’t a factor, what aircraft should I just use? Is it worth it to get G1000 experience or to have some familiarity with complex and/or high performance? Or should I just go with the cheapest option?

C-182RG, C-172N (TAA - Dual G5s & GFC500), C-172S (TAA - G1000/GFC700), or Piper Arrow?
Click to expand...

What are the avionics in the 182RG
 
denverpilot said:
Negated by other reasons stated.

He’s got a personal preference, but having done all of the maneuvers in both, he’s also flat wrong. :)

Annnd... if he can’t do them equally in both... he should work on that. Fly whatever the student wants. It shouldn’t be their problem if you can’t teach them equally in either one.

And that’s me, Mr “I love high wings” talkin’. I’ve got no preference at all on these maneuvers. They’re simple enough in both, with various different sight picture challenges for the student.

Unless flying something the wing is behind you, it’s going to get in the way of something, one way or the other. And it’ll also act as a good and bad target for sight lines depending on bank. No big deal.

Same issues as the private ground reference and horizon reference maneuvers.

People pass checkrides every day in both with no significant thinking hard or whining about either one, outside of personal preference. Instructor having one is normal. Instructor saying one is truly easier than the other, isn’t.

Could do it in a biplane for more fun, I suppose. :)
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Agreed you should be able to do them in both equally well. The statement was low wings are easier and that is true. Your ground reference targets are never blocked like they are in a high wing. Yes they can be done, no it shouldn't make your decision as to which to pick, but physics of the maneuvers favor a low wing as you HAVE to turn into every maneuver.
 
Grum.Man said:
Agreed you should be able to do them in both equally well. The statement was low wings are easier and that is true. Your ground reference targets are never blocked like they are in a high wing. Yes they can be done, no it shouldn't make your decision as to which to pick, but physics of the maneuvers favor a low wing as you HAVE to turn into every maneuver.
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You can block the target in a low wing. Heh. I promise. Think upwind side. Not downwind. :) Easy.
 
Grum.Man said:
Agreed you should be able to do them in both equally well. The statement was low wings are easier and that is true. Your ground reference targets are never blocked like they are in a high wing. Yes they can be done, no it shouldn't make your decision as to which to pick, but physics of the maneuvers favor a low wing as you HAVE to turn into every maneuver.
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"Never" is way too long a time to make any kind of statement in aviation (much like James Bond movies).

The ONLY absolute in aviation is that there are absolutely no absolutes. ;)
 
My takeaway from all the arguing is that, if low-wing planes make the ground reference maneuvers for commercial easier, the effect is pretty small, especially if you are trained properly. Unless you are absolutely breaking a tie with regards to all other factors, choose the type of plane for other reasons. In my case, I believe the warriors are cheaper than the skyhawks so I may as well go with the cheaper option and get some experience with low-wing planes (of which I have very little). I'm going to try to do a few cross country flights in skyhawks to mix it up.
 
RingLaserGyroSandwich said:
My takeaway from all the arguing is that, if low-wing planes make the ground reference maneuvers for commercial easier, the effect is pretty small, especially if you are trained properly. Unless you are absolutely breaking a tie with regards to all other factors, choose the type of plane for other reasons. In my case, I believe the warriors are cheaper than the skyhawks so I may as well go with the cheaper option and get some experience with low-wing planes (of which I have very little). I'm going to try to do a few cross country flights in skyhawks to mix it up.
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Remember Warriors and Skyhawks only work if they’re “Technically Advanced Aircraft”, or TAA. In other words, they have advanced glass that meets the TAA requirement.

Otherwise you’ll need something the gear goes up and down in.

(This is why the OP mentioned TAA and what avionics his options had.)
 
luvflyin said:
What are the avionics in the 182RG
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Steam gauge with GTN650. May have an autopilot as well. Pictures on the Club's website show an old Cessna Navomatic 300A, but the Document page references an STEC-55X.
 
scottfromboston said:
And you're used to it? Seems perfect. Personally, I'd place a high priority on the glass experience over swinging gear.
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I have not flown any of the specific aircraft under consideration. I'm finishing up my instrument rating in a 172S with a G5 HSI and GTN650 and have flown 172N models in the past. That particular flight school only has the G1000 172, so in all likelihood I'll be moving on for my commercial.

Where do you fly out of in MA? I got my private at KPYM.
 
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