being pressed to fly in unsafe weather

flyer

flyer

Pre-takeoff checklist
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flyer
Had a good example of other pilots attempting to pressure me into flying today beyond my personal limits. Had a fly in today at our local airport and various different pilots were giving first time rides to folks. We had a lot of folks lined up wanting plane rides.

There was about 6 pilots giving rides and my original intent was to fly also, but the sfc winds were gusting to 20 down the runway all day long which is beyond my limits, but the local pilots and including the airport manager tried their best to get me to go but I still refused. Maybe I could have gone, but anytime I have to question the safety of a particular flight I dont go.

In the end there were some unhappy folks that didnt get a plane ride.
 
You do what you feel is safe. What was the cross wind component? If the wind was straight down the runway I would suggest you get some extra training dealing with winds like that.
 
Better that than running the risk of even MORE unhappiness. Sometimes I feel like kind of a weenie when i cancel a flight because I'm just not comfortable with the wind. I cancel anyway. I'd rather be. A weenie than an NTSB report.

I do try do push my limits a little to improve my flying... but I only do it solo.
 
flyer said:
In the end there were some unhappy folks that didnt get a plane ride.
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You missed a word. There were some unhappy, UNHARMED folks that didn't get a plane ride. Go with your gut, man. Peer pressure gets people hurt.
 
There's reason we set limits. Good for you to sticking to it. It isn't a good idea to push someone into doing something they aren't comfortable with and they were wrong to do so.
Limits keep us out of trouble.
 
jtheune said:
You do what you feel is safe. What was the cross wind component? If the wind was straight down the runway I would suggest you get some extra training dealing with winds like that.
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There was about a 6 kt x wind factor to go with that wind.

BTW there was about 200 rides given, but there was still about 15 that didnt get to go since I canceled. I still wonder If i could have done it.
 
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If your limit is 20 mph then you did good by not taking passengers until you push your personal limits solo to a new comfort level.

I'd say you did good. :D

Having said that, 20 MPH down the runway is certainly nothing to worry about, at all.
 
Geico266 said:
Having said that, 20 MPH down the runway is certainly nothing to worry about, at all.
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It worried me, lol. And it was a gusty wind too. Ive had that limit for many years, but being pressured and having that limit questioned makes me question my decision making.
 
flyer said:
There was about a 6 kt x wind factor to go with that wind.

BTW there was about 200 rides given, but there was still about 15 that didnt get to go since I canceled. I still wonder If i could have done it.
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Ya gotta stick to your limits..:yesnod::yesnod:

You probably could have suggested the ones who didn't get a ride might be able to get one tomorrow if the winds lighten up a bit.:idea::dunno:
 
No need to question your decision making. As everyone said, we set limits for a reason.

That being said, there is no reason why you can't push your comfort zone (ie limits) a little with an instructor if you feel it may be time to expand the limits a little wider.
 
You probably could have done it, but you wouldn't have enjoyed it. Part of this game is having fun. If you're not having any, find something else to to do until conditions are within your self-imposed limits. As you continue to gain experience, your limits may expand. If so, winds like those that were uncomfortable today will become ho-hum.

flyer said:
There was about a 6 kt x wind factor to go with that wind.

BTW there was about 200 rides given, but there was still about 15 that didnt get to go since I canceled. I still wonder If i could have done it.
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No matter what anyone says you did the right thing. You made a decision not to fly in conditions you were not comfortable in. The reason does not matter. You made a no go decision and stuck by it. That makes you a safe pilot(remember the old saying about old pilots).

We all have limits. All because yours are less or more than someone elses does not make you any better or worse.

By not caving into peer pressure you stayed out of a situation that you were not comfortable with. If you had flown and something happened... what then... 15 people may have been a lot more than just disappointed.

As to others finding fault with your personal limits, I say, do not listen. Do what you feel is right.

Doug
 
flyer said:
I still wonder If i could have done it.
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I am sure you could, but your passengers would have probably sensed your uneasiness, and it would have effected there enjoyment.

Find a CFI that will go up with you when the weather is like that, and just do pattern work.

My CFI has canceled other things we were going to do on days where we had a 20 mph crosswind gusts, just so we can do pattern work in it.
 
I don't understand that kind of pressure. The most I might say, if asked, is "I'd do it", but that's it.
The bottom line is that if a pilot seems unwilling to fly, the last thing you want to do it try to talk them into it. Let them expand their limits when they think they're ready.
 
You made the right call.

I tend to be a little more brash, I'll tell them it's not good weather for flying once after that if I get any more pressure I tend to get a little short with people.


If you feel it may be a bad idea, IT IS A BAD IDEA! plane and simple, now if you want to slowly work you way up to where you feel good in whatever type of wx, well, thats a smart move.

I've heard of more pilots getting fired or killed by saying YES then NO.
 
i agree with the other posters in that you made the right call today. Taking pax along while expanding your limits is a bad idea.

On the other hand I'd encourage you to learn to fly to your aircraft's limits so you know why you make the call and don't feel any need to ask here. And even once you get to the aircraft's limits, IMSAFE still applies. If you don't feel it's safe to go, then don't go and don't second guess.
 
You did the right thing Mike, don't let anyone pressure you into anything you don't feel comfortable with...

That being said, push yourself with an instructor with you, it will really relax you, even if you don't change your passenger limits...

20 kts with 6kt xwind I would have flown, but that doesn't mean it was right for you...

I would also suggest that those 15 people that didn't get a ride could show up tomorrow, as it looks like a really NICE day...
 
I agree with all posts above! Much better to disappoint on the ground, then to apologize in the air. Thats my new version of "much better to be on the ground wishing you your in the air then to be in the air wishing your on the ground"

I have disappointed myself (and the GF) many times that in hindsight I could have flown. I don't regret it, or even question my judgement on the decisions. My rule of thumb, if I'm not 100% sure I can safely get to my destination (assuming no mechanical,unplanned failures) I'm not flying.

Good ADM!
 
Remember you are PIC. When the poop hits the fan, you and you alone have to deal with the consequences.;) I used to have a friend that flew for me on occasion, normally my parents or sister when I couldn't fly. My standing rule was, no one has to be anywhere! If for any reason you don't want to fly, they all have credit cards and can get lunch or a room for the night.;)
If you don't feel good about a flight, don't fly. The more experience you get the greater your comfort level will be in certain situations, don't sweat it, you made the right call.:D
 
Your plane, your call. Don't let anyone make you feel poorly for knowing your limits. That being said, I agree with the others. Get the training to be able to handle those type of winds, because they are not out of the norm.
 
Good thing you don't live in Kansas, eastern Colorado, Oklahoma or Texas. You'd never fly if you had a 20 kt, mph, whatever limit.

I will confirm that if you personally feel uncomfortable about flying, then don't. Take offs are optional.
 
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He lives about 50' from the Kansas border.

comanchepilot said:
Good thing you don't live in Kansas, eastern Colorado, Oklahoma or Texas. You'd never fly if you had a 20 kt, mph, whatever limit.

I will confirm that if you personally feel uncomfortable about lying, then don't. Take offs are optional.
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Since you own your own plane, I would take a cfi up and just practice in some good winds... You never know when the winds might miss the state line signs ;)
 
When I saw this headline I thought, "Hmmmmm this sounds familiar" I spent many years making a living flying in unsafe weather. IMHO the conditions described were not unsafe. That being said, the OP made the absolutely correct call.

I don't know what the OP's experience level is, but a 6kt crosswind component is well within the capabilities of any aircraft, and learning to handle gusty conditions is imperative if anyone wants to utilize and airplane for any meaningful transportation. Get some more experience, either solo or with an instructor, until you can handle your craft to a level where you feel safe in conditions as those described..
 
I agree; you did the right thing.

I have found that my inner self; my intuition, is the best guide I have for whether or not to launch a flight. When I didn't listen to my inner self, I always regretted it. I no longer do that.
 
I have to agree that you made the right decision. You are the one who is in charge of safety when it comes to you and your aircraft, so if you said no for what ever reason, others should accept that, and not try and pressure you in to flying.
 
I got talked into flying a couple of times that I didn't feel real comfortable about. About five years ago I got talked into flying out of an airport in a 172 that was so overloaded that I am still surprised that we didn't stall out and end up on the evening news. I still have anxiety attacks thinking about it. Best to stay safe and sleep well.
 
ja_user said:
You never know when the winds might miss the state line signs ;)
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Thats for sure, lol. Ive been caught out in 30kt sfc winds before about 7 years ago, and had a tough choice on where to land. It wasnt pretty and i didnt fly for quite a while after that, but nothing was bent. Ive been a lot more careful now not to get in those conditions ever since.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
if anyone wants to utilize and airplane for any meaningful transportation.
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Thats true. Seems every year when I take a cross country to Wisconsin I always get stuck at some airport because of the weather or winds. So far flying a 172 on trips has not been a reliable source of meaningful transportation.
 
I have to wonder how many people that did get to fly that day found it not to be a good experience in those conditions.


 
If you're not comfortable -- don't go. But have you considered getting comfortable with an instructor?

It seems as though you're constantly missing various fly-ins and other flights you've wanted to do because of your wind limitation when the limitation you impose is much much below the airplane's capability. With some practice, and willingness to expand your envelope you'd get a lot more use out of your airplane.
 
woodfire said:
I have to wonder how many people that did get to fly that day found it not to be a good experience in those conditions.
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I had a similar thought.

When it's breezy out, especially in the afternoon, I tend to warn my passengers that it may get a bit bumpy. Though it's often not as bad as I expect.

But we have a lot of topography around here. Wind over the mountains usually means turbulence. If it's flat and uniform, your experience may be different.
 
+1. Or move somewhere that the wind never exceeds 10 knots. Western MO ain't it.

jesse said:
If you're not comfortable -- don't go. But have you considered getting comfortable with an instructor?

It seems as though you're constantly missing various fly-ins and other flights you've wanted to do because of your wind limitation when the limitation you impose is much much below the airplane's capability. With some practice, and willingness to expand your envelope you'd get a lot more use out of your airplane.
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jesse said:
But have you considered getting comfortable with an instructor?
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Yes i have. But unfortunately there are no CFI's around my local port and i haven't had much luck finding one that is willing to come to our local airport.
 
MAKG1 said:
I had a similar thought.

When it's breezy out, especially in the afternoon, I tend to warn my passengers that it may get a bit bumpy. Though it's often not as bad as I expect.
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It does seem that its always more bumpy in the afternoons here too, even if the sfc winds are calm ive seen some really heavy turbulence aloft.
 
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