Being PIC

redtail

redtail

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Redtail
Had to turn down my first passenger today. He's an former co-worker that I ran into recently. He's been talking about taking a flight for awhile now so this morning he called to find out when I'd be going up again. I told him, next week.

He asked if we had parachutes in those planes? I said no we don't, just like the airlines. Well he didn't sound to confident at that point.

A few minutes ago, he texted me and said "please give me more details about where we're going just in case something go down".

That was the final straw for me. I texted him back and said... I changed my mind, we won't be flying together. You are obviously too afraid and I respect that. However, I don't need the added distraction. Don't take it personally.

I said, I'm not a commercial pilot. I only do this for the love of flying.

I think sometimes we get early warning signs that we shouldn't fly with certain people. Maybe I'll suggest he take a discovery flight first. His first flight in a GA airplane needs to be with someone trained to deal with that, not me!!!
 
Very, very, very smart move. Only the smallest fraction of individuals truly admit when they aren't equal to the task. If more pilots were like you GA would be the safest, not the most dangerous, mode of transportation.
 
Probably a good decision, you never know when someone will wig and grab the controls for a complete f-up, typicaly when they panic on short final.
 
Yeah, plus this guy was known to have a few emotional outbreaks in the past when we worked together. Not towards me but he lost it a few times with the supervisors:yikes:

I think he's on meds also.
Nice guy most of the time.
 
Sounds like a good call. Tough, but a good call.
 
Henning said:
Probably a good decision, you never know when someone will wig and grab the controls for a complete f-up, typicaly when they panic on short final.
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You know, I always wondered about that! How would a pilot do fighting for the controls in a situation like that! Scary to say the least:yikes:

Makes you wonder why we even put non-pilots in the front with dual controls. It would be nice if we could disable the other yoke & pedals. Maybe some type of emergency kill switch:dunno:
 
Those little hairs on the back of your neck are there for a reason. When they tingle, listen to them.
 
steingar said:
Very, very, very smart move. Only the smallest fraction of individuals truly admit when they aren't equal to the task. If more pilots were like you GA would be the safest, not the most dangerous, mode of transportation.
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Thanks. With me, safety is always first and if I'm ever unfortunate enough to have a mishap in an aircraft, the last thing I want is for it to be passenger induced:no:
 
Probably a good decision, you never know when someone will wig and grab the controls for a complete f-up, typicaly when they panic on short final.
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I've had that happen a few times. Only twice has it been a problem. Once involved a boy scout. I used to do a lot of aviation merit badges, with the reward for those who earned their merit badge being an airplane ride. I met at a grass strip in Oklahoma one morning, and had a dozen or so scouts to give rides, in a Cessna 150.

One of those boys on takeoff reached forward, hugged the yoke to his chest and sat back unexpectedly. The bottom of the empennage buried itself in the soft runway and left a long gouge down the grass strip. I pulled the power to idle and then the mixture as I gently removed him from the yoke.

After inspecting for damage and digging turf out from between the rudder and the back of the empennage, we made our flight, him a little more careful and me a little more attentive.

The other time involved a young man who locked up both brakes solidly on a Piaggio Avanti. I had to forcefully remove him before I got control back again.
 
redtail said:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

They are a tingling :lol:
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The Force is strong in this one...:D You made the right call.

His second question is OK by me; shows me he'd possibly be OK with all the safety "rituals" associated with even a simple day VFR joyride... but his first question- ugh. And based on the other traits you mention, I'd make the same call you did.

Our glider club just got a new member, and he brought his cousin along the other Sunday. both on their motorcycles. The cousin, an easygoing , likeable guy, got my Spidey-sense going when he showed a lot of interest in the whole operation, yet also could not stop "joking" about how crazy we all were, and how he'd never fly in any of the aircraft seen that day, etc. He was joking, but not really. I could see that, even though I'd never met him before. I half-expected him to decide finally to take a hop, and I was damn sure it would not be me flying him. :D
Sample:
Him: "Are these things safe?"
Me: "Statistically, this kind of flying is about as safe as riding motorcycles."
Him: "OK, but...how high do these things go?"
Me: "Highest I've gotten here in these gliders was 6000 feet."
Him: "Wow, no way... not me!"
Me: "Actually, altitude is your friend, especially with gliders. Even if something's wrong, as long as the wings are still attached, you have more time and more options to get down safe."
Him: "Yeah, yeah, that makes sense; right. But you guys are crazy!"

:dunno:
 
Him: "Yeah, yeah, that makes sense; right. But you guys are crazy!"

Me: "Crazy only if I bring you along for the ride" :lol:.



Yes, I think it was the right call and best of all.... I'm comfortable making it!

I had no reservations at all returning his last text message with what I said to him.

I figured I'd be straight up with him and let him know that I recognize and respect his overwhelming fear, however, I expect him to recognize and respect my decision not to fly with him.
 
Handing out rides like it is an amusement park (Young Eagles) is worthless and not worth the risk. Good call RT.

I gave a ride to my house framer Sat. He asked me! We had a ball and he flew most of the time.
 
I must say this...(someone else mentioned it in another thread also), I've noticed more deathly fear from males than I have females! Makes me wonder who really has the pair:rofl:

I've had several guys chicken out at the last minute than gals:dunno:
Never had a female ask me about parachutes. I love that question because when I ask them do they have them on an airline flight, they get quiet:D

I'm at the point now where I don't even invite people to fly with me anymore. If I take someone up, it's because they asked. This morning....he asked.
 
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I'm sorry but life is too short for the cowardice BS! If you're deathly afraid of dying in an airplane then you need to stay on the ****ing ground!!! Don't waste my time trying to impress me! :mad2:
 
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I don't think gender has much to do with it. I've had wussie guys, and wussie gals not want to fly with me. To be fair, why we think it is a normal thing to do, many do not. They are unfamiliar with all things about General Aviation and have been brainwashed by a media hell bent on scaring them to sell more air time to advertisers.

Fear = $$$

However, I have had both women, and men jump right in and fly with me. Perfect strangers, didn't ask about my experience or anything. I guess they figured if I had a plane, then I must know what I'm doing. Pretty stupid, huh? :D
 
redtail said:
It would be nice if we could disable the other yoke & pedals. Maybe some type of emergency kill switch:dunno:
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:idea:
Well, you could always fly armed...oh, not that type of "kill" switch...nevermind.
 
Hey, better to have your passenger be on the ground wishing he was up there then up in the air making you wish he was down here... :)
 
Parachute? No, we're not doing that kind of flying, we're going to do the boring, safe kind where we just look out the windows and then come back and land.
 
Fly 'em or don't fly 'em. It only matters to you. If you think someone might be a problem, skip it. If they ask a bunch of questions, remember that they haven't spent thousands of dollars to learn to fly and don't know the rules. Their perception of aviation comes from the majors (who HATE GA) and the media (who are MOSTLY misinformed about everything).
I get rather inane and silly questions all the time. It does not necessarily make the person a bad passenger. Curious maybe, but not a bad passenger.
I have flown many people. A couple of close friends went with me to Nantucket. He sat in the front and refused to touch the controls, she sat in the back knitting. Not white knuckled, just leaving the flying to me.
I've had others make up excuses for not flying with me, one canceling WHILE I was flying up to meet them.
The point is, do it or don't. Don't try to convince yourself that either was the right thing to do. It only matters to you and the potential passenger. Thus far, anyone who's gone flying with me has yet to declare they'd never do it again though I suspect several will never get on a small plane again. But then, I don't do rollercoasters either!
 
Nope, no parachutes in the plane, but it's a good question and I understand your concern. I assume you have ejection seats in your car?
 
silver-eagle said:
Fly 'em or don't fly 'em. It only matters to you. If you think someone might be a problem, skip it. If they ask a bunch of questions, remember that they haven't spent thousands of dollars to learn to fly and don't know the rules. Their perception of aviation comes from the majors (who HATE GA) and the media (who are MOSTLY misinformed about everything).
I get rather inane and silly questions all the time. It does not necessarily make the person a bad passenger. Curious maybe, but not a bad passenger.
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I think this is an exemplary attitude, that if more of us exibit would help the GA image. No need to come bacck with a sarcastic smarta$$ reply.:yesnod:
 
bflynn said:
Parachute? No, we're not doing that kind of flying, we're going to do the boring, safe kind where we just look out the windows and then come back and land.
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Best response I've seen yet. :)
 
redtail said:
You know, I always wondered about that! How would a pilot do fighting for the controls in a situation like that! Scary to say the least:yikes:

Makes you wonder why we even put non-pilots in the front with dual controls. It would be nice if we could disable the other yoke & pedals. Maybe some type of emergency kill switch:dunno:
Click to expand...

I've only had it happen twice, once was a girl and I overpowered her effort, the other I hit the power with his pull and went around explaining it to him and having him sit on his hands for the next landing. It was more freaky than anything but at the right moment could f- up your day.
 
redtail said:
You know, I always wondered about that! How would a pilot do fighting for the controls in a situation like that! Scary to say the least:yikes:

Makes you wonder why we even put non-pilots in the front with dual controls. It would be nice if we could disable the other yoke & pedals. Maybe some type of emergency kill switch:dunno:
Click to expand...


add a few sets of curls in the gym --> trying to get yoke control :)rofl:)
 
Passengers asking about parachutes are common. Don't concern yourself too much about that. Many passengers will ask "is it safe?" They want reassurance.

You can become offended when someone asks about your experience, parachutes, or safety, or you can take it as an opportunity to educate. Do that.

We don't need parachutes on this flight because the airplane can be landed just fine without them, and we can land in short distances, nearly anywhere. We have a very reliable engine, and even without the engine, the airplane flies just fine. We train for such occasions regularly, and it's even part of our check rides and exams. These airplanes are light and strong, and well made. I fly my children in these airplanes. Air is soft. The sky is wide. Let's have a good flight.
 
Exactly, understand that most people are clueless and scared, you need to calm them down.
 
I cringe to bring this up, but here goes....

Do you think BRS adds fuel to the fire of public misunderstanding? (FWIW, some LSAs are now including them)
 
silver-eagle said:
Fly 'em or don't fly 'em. It only matters to you. If you think someone might be a problem, skip it. If they ask a bunch of questions, remember that they haven't spent thousands of dollars to learn to fly and don't know the rules. Their perception of aviation comes from the majors (who HATE GA) and the media (who are MOSTLY misinformed about everything).
I get rather inane and silly questions all the time. It does not necessarily make the person a bad passenger. Curious maybe, but not a bad passenger.
I have flown many people. A couple of close friends went with me to Nantucket. He sat in the front and refused to touch the controls, she sat in the back knitting. Not white knuckled, just leaving the flying to me.
I've had others make up excuses for not flying with me, one canceling WHILE I was flying up to meet them.
The point is, do it or don't. Don't try to convince yourself that either was the right thing to do. It only matters to you and the potential passenger. Thus far, anyone who's gone flying with me has yet to declare they'd never do it again though I suspect several will never get on a small plane again. But then, I don't do rollercoasters either!
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Yeah I agree about the lack of GA knowledge and questions. In this case, it wasn't just that alone. It was the sound of overwhelming fear in those questions and the known background of this guy! Not your average curious person. Too many warning signs.
 
DouglasBader said:
Passengers asking about parachutes are common. Don't concern yourself too much about that. Many passengers will ask "is it safe?" They want reassurance.

You can become offended when someone asks about your experience, parachutes, or safety, or you can take it as an opportunity to educate. Do that.

We don't need parachutes on this flight because the airplane can be landed just fine without them, and we can land in short distances, nearly anywhere. We have a very reliable engine, and even without the engine, the airplane flies just fine. We train for such occasions regularly, and it's even part of our check rides and exams. These airplanes are light and strong, and well made. I fly my children in these airplanes. Air is soft. The sky is wide. Let's have a good flight.
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Believe me, I love to educate and talk about aviation. This guy was beyond that. He's been contemplating flying with me for a long time but I think it was only to impress me or not look like a chicken.

I never pressure friends or family about flying but I do talk to them a lot about it and the positive aspects of it. When they show concern about a recent crash in the news, I explain things that they never get from the reporters.

I remember a few year ago when I worked with this guy, he made a comment on how he'd never fly on an A380 because if it crash...look how many people would die. That type of paranoia is just something I'd rather not deal with in the cockpit, with my limited experience level:lol:
 
redtail said:
You know, I always wondered about that! How would a pilot do fighting for the controls in a situation like that! Scary to say the least:yikes:

Makes you wonder why we even put non-pilots in the front with dual controls. It would be nice if we could disable the other yoke & pedals. Maybe some type of emergency kill switch:dunno:
Click to expand...

In the old bonanzas I've been in, some have only one yoke and they've disabled / pinned down the passenger rudders. I thought that was actually a good thing considering some of them do Angel Flights.
 
Anthony said:
I don't think gender has much to do with it. I've had wussie guys, and wussie gals not want to fly with me. To be fair, why we think it is a normal thing to do, many do not. They are unfamiliar with all things about General Aviation and have been brainwashed by a media hell bent on scaring them to sell more air time to advertisers.

Fear = $$$

However, I have had both women, and men jump right in and fly with me. Perfect strangers, didn't ask about my experience or anything. I guess they figured if I had a plane, then I must know what I'm doing. Pretty stupid, huh? :D
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Ditto. Nobody asks me anything. Then again, they are all pilots who could easily land my plane so that is most likely what keeps them cool.
 
Yeah I guess the gender thing is just because I've had more guys talk about flying with me than females. So naturally the number of male wusses would be higher. Honestly, I don't even bother asking people to fly anymore. It's just not worth the trouble. If they wanna fly, they know how to ask.

My sister visited from LA a few months ago and insisted on flying the Hudson River tour with me. It was a windy bumpy day and honestly, I was more concerned about her enjoying it than she was.

She absolutely loved it! When we landed she said it was nowhere near as bad as I made her think it would be:)
 
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DouglasBader said:
The other time involved a young man who locked up both brakes solidly on a Piaggio Avanti. I had to forcefully remove him before I got control back again.
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Sorry for the hijack, but -

Doug, do you fly for Avant Air? A coworker of mine used to be a captain with them. If you have seen the movie 'Salt' starring Angelina Jolie - he was the pilot who flew the Avanti in that quick take-off scene.

So I'm adding something to the discussion and not just hijacking....:idea:

As PIC, I make it a habit to give a pre-flight brief to any passengers I'll carry. Also, if I know I'll be doing something that may seem uncomfortable to a passenger, such as a slip, crosswind landing, etc, i'll brief them prior to my doing it.
 
CBeaulieu said:
Sorry for the hijack, but -

Doug, do you fly for Avant Air? A coworker of mine used to be a captain with them. If you have seen the movie 'Salt' starring Angelina Jolie - he was the pilot who flew the Avanti in that quick take-off scene.

So I'm adding something to the discussion and not just hijacking....:idea:

As PIC, I make it a habit to give a pre-flight brief to any passengers I'll carry. Also, if I know I'll be doing something that may seem uncomfortable to a passenger, such as a slip, crosswind landing, etc, i'll brief them prior to my doing it.
Click to expand...

I did that without even realizing it. On our trip home, I told my BF "the winds are really gusting and at a crosswind angle. I may do what is called a go around if I need to. It may look like I'm ready to land but then all of a sudden I will take off again for a full pattern." He said OK.

It did not end up happening (my go around). I landed so-so but definitely safely and straight.

But I've never done a go around with a passenger and I thought I should tell him BEFORE I pushed full power.
 
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