Being based at an airport that doesn’t sell fuel?

[Country Flier]

My home field has gas,it’s just very expensive so I never buy there…and I’ve never found myself “stuck” and forced to buy the expensive gas, not even once.

 

[Mikey52]

At the self-serve pump I’ve been to, it asks you to type in the ‘N’ number for the aircraft being fueled. I’ve never heard of anyone getting aircraft fuel for non aviation purposes.

In Florida, there are many airboats with o540's and other aircraft engines that require 100LL, or very many overhauls.

 

[Half Fast]

At the self-serve pump I’ve been to, it asks you to type in the ‘N’ number for the aircraft being fueled. I’ve never heard of anyone getting aircraft fuel for non aviation purposes.

So does the one at my home drome. That doesn’t stop someone from entering any random N# they like.

 

[ateamer]

Airports should not be selling Avgas for non-aeronautical purposes. If they get caught, they will get fined. For that reason, I don’t do it. Can I stop Jim from coming after hours and using the self-serve pump and filling his cans up? No, but if I know about it, I will turn them away. Avgas isn’t racing fuel. If folks need an octane booster, the auto parts store sells a variety of such.

Some airports in Florida sell a lot of 100LL to airboat operators.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

If you tie down at an airport with FBO ,you don’t have that option,they frown on self fueling.

Hasn't been an issue for me.

At the self-serve pump I’ve been to, it asks you to type in the ‘N’ number for the aircraft being fueled. I’ve never heard of anyone getting aircraft fuel for non aviation purposes.

I tend to put in random numbers because the interface is such a pain in the butt - arrow arrow arrow arrow arrow right... arrow arrow arrow arrow arrow left...

 

[JOhnH]

At the self-serve pump I’ve been to, it asks you to type in the ‘N’ number for the aircraft being fueled. I’ve never heard of anyone getting aircraft fuel for non aviation

Hasn't been an issue for me.


I tend to put in random numbers because the interface is such a pain in the butt - arrow arrow arrow arrow arrow right... arrow arrow arrow arrow arrow left...

For the past few years, most of the self service pumps that I have used that ask for N number provide my number on the screen somehow, and all I have to do is "confirm" or not. Even airports I have never been to before. I guess they have some sort of AI reader. First time I saw that it was kind of freaky.

 

[Country Flier]

I tend to put in random numbers because the interface is such a pain in the butt - arrow arrow arrow arrow arrow right... arrow arrow arrow arrow arrow left...

I’ve bought so much gas for N11111 (not my plane, btw) that it doesn’t even ask for the n number anymore as it recognizes my credit card.

 

[schmookeeg]

N888 checking in I get the "confirm this is you" every so often and it weirds me out

 

[Pinecone]

Airports should not be selling Avgas for non-aeronautical purposes. If they get caught, they will get fined. For that reason, I don’t do it. Can I stop Jim from coming after hours and using the self-serve pump and filling his cans up? No, but if I know about it, I will turn them away. Avgas isn’t racing fuel. If folks need an octane booster, the auto parts store sells a variety of such.

What regulation says this?

You cannot pump AVGAS directly to an on road vehicle (car/truck), as road taxes have not been paid. But into fuel cans for other use, they can sell it. Down south, a LOT of airport sell AVGAS to air boat operators. Makes sense, as they are powered by aircraft engines.

 

[Albany Tom]

If we ask the original question differently - "Is a hanger spot w/ fuel at the airport worth more than a hanger spot w/o fuel?" Then I'd say yes, everything else being equal, but maybe not much. Just because of convenience. This sounds a little bit like the hanger across the street question.

I don't own a plane, but if I did, I'd put having a hanger, compared to tie down, as more valuable than on-site fuel. Best thing would be a hanger w/ an FBO that would tow it out and fuel it up while I drive to the airport, but that's not going to be as inexpensive as self fuel.

 

[tspear]

What regulation says this?

You cannot pump AVGAS directly to an on road vehicle (car/truck), as road taxes have not been paid. But into fuel cans for other use, they can sell it. Down south, a LOT of airport sell AVGAS to air boat operators. Makes sense, as they are powered by aircraft engines.

Actually it depends. A used to be friends with a couple airport managers who have since retired. In a number of states, the FBO has to actively apply for an get a refund on road taxes. Under state law, all gas sold to distributors must include the road taxes. So, depending on the state, even when buying avgas you might still have paid the road taxes (TN, KY, VA were the three I was told this was a definite issue).

Tim

 

[Dana]

For the past few years, most of the self service pumps that I have used that ask for N number provide my number on the screen somehow, and all I have to do is "confirm" or not. Even airports I have never been to before. I guess they have some sort of AI reader. First time I saw that it was kind of freaky.

Doesn't take AI, the system simply recognizes your card # and associates the N-number you entered last time with it. If another airport uses the same computer billing system, it'll recognize you at that airport, too.

 

[JOhnH]

If we ask the original question differently - "Is a hanger spot w/ fuel at the airport worth more than a hanger spot w/o fuel?" Then I'd say yes, everything else being equal, but maybe not much. Just because of convenience. This sounds a little bit like the hanger across the street question.

I don't own a plane, but if I did, I'd put having a hanger, compared to tie down, as more valuable than on-site fuel. Best thing would be a hanger w/ an FBO that would tow it out and fuel it up while I drive to the airport, but that's not going to be as inexpensive as self fuel.

 

[flyingron]

For the past few years, most of the self service pumps that I have used that ask for N number provide my number on the screen somehow, and all I have to do is "confirm" or not. Even airports I have never been to before. I guess they have some sort of AI reader. First time I saw that it was kind of freaky.

Once you input the N number for a given card, the system seems to remember it. If I switch cards, I have to put it in again. Doubt it's AI or anything, it just remembers you what you used (even if it was a different pump on the same processor).

 

[JOhnH]

Once you input the N number for a given card, the system seems to remember it. If I switch cards, I have to put it in again. Doubt it's AI or anything, it just remembers you what you used (even if it was a different pump on the same processor).

That could explain it. Next time it asks, I'll try to cancel and use a different card and see what happens.

 

[farmrjohn]

Doesn't take AI, the system simply recognizes your card # and associates the N-number you entered last time with it. If another airport uses the same computer billing system, it'll recognize you at that airport, too.

But there is a caveat. On a recent cross country flight I got an error code on the self-serve terminal. It turns out that for some reason at that airport/terminal the reader connected my card/N number with a prior address so the credit card issuer declined approval. That was interesting since many prior and subsequent purchases were approved with no issue. Lesson learned, have multiple cards available just in case.

 

[chemgeek]

There was a period of time when my home airport did not sell fuel. When in this situation, you must ensure that for every flight you return with at least 30 minutes VFR reserve plus fuel required to reach the nearest airport with fuel available. For me, that was 45 minutes of fuel plus 2 gallons for taxi and climb. (More is better to avoid an embarrassing and hazardous situation if weather throws you a curve ball when flying to refuel.) If you couldn't arrange to arrive home with the required fuel reserves, then you stopped for fuel enroute to ensure you did so. It's not that hard to figure out, and is a basic flight safety skill. I usually fueled up at a nearby fuel source prior to returning home from a long trip. If you fuel up at your nearest fuel source prior to returning home, you will have maximum fuel available for your next trip.

 

[Albany Tom]

Just because I don't like either my airplane or my pants wrinkled...

 

[Kritchlow]

Many of the responses here were somewhat nasty.

OP asked a legit question.
Just because you have the perfect answer doesn’t mean you should be a jerk in your response.

 

[RyanB]

Many of the responses here were somewhat nasty.

OP asked a legit question.
Just because you have the perfect answer doesn’t mean you should be a jerk in your response.

Welcome to the internet :/

 

[Kritchlow]

Welcome to the internet :/

Right, but not in the spirit of aviation.

 

[JOhnH]

Welcome to the internet :/

Not an acceptable answer. This isn't Facebook. We are supposed to respect each other and help each other learn.
OP asked a legitimate question. A few jerks that think they can do no wrong had to prove it.

 

[schmookeeg]

Many of the responses here were somewhat nasty.

OP asked a legit question.
Just because you have the perfect answer doesn’t mean you should be a jerk in your response.

You made me re-read the whole thread. I didn't see anything nasty. What are you on about?

 

[Kritchlow]

You made me re-read the whole thread. I didn't see anything nasty. What are you on about?

Well perhaps you and I have different opinions. I saw more than one unwelcoming response imo.

 

[Half Fast]

Well perhaps you and I have different opinions. I saw more than one unwelcoming response imo.

Perhaps you could become more understanding and accepting of different posting styles and improve your tolerance of jerks.

 

[Kritchlow]

Perhaps you could become more understanding and accepting of different posting styles and improve your tolerance of jerks.

I think your post was one of the ones I was referring to.
I think you believe that as well, as the reason you responded.

A gasoline station at your house does not correspond. You know better, or at least should.

 

[Half Fast]

I think your post was one of the ones I was referring to.
I think you believe that as well, as the reason you responded.

A gasoline station at your house does not correspond. You know better, or at least should.

Did you have to get an SI for your humor impairment, or was it a CACI?

 

[Kritchlow]

Did you have to get an SI for your humor impairment, or was it a CACI?

Huh? I guess I missed that one as well.

 

[Morgan3820]

Airports should not be selling Avgas for non-aeronautical purposes. If they get caught, they will get fined. For that reason, I don’t do it. Can I stop Jim from coming after hours and using the self-serve pump and filling his cans up? No, but if I know about it, I will turn them away. Avgas isn’t racing fuel. If folks need an octane booster, the auto parts store sells a variety of such.

Why is that?

 

[Morgan3820]

The person who gets "stuck" at their home field without enough fuel is the same type of person who runs out of fuel before getting to their destination.

Wow, you guys are harsh. Guy asked a simple question.

 

[farangutan]

Even though we have fuel on the field, we keep some fuel canisters in the hangar to top off the tanks sometimes.

 

[Dana]

After Michael, my home field didn't have fuel for quite a while. It was a total non-issue. I just always landed with about 2 hours fuel onboard.

But my airplane only carries a little over 2 hours worth of fuel. The equation changes depending on how much fuel you carry, and how far away the nearest fuel is... and what your plans for tomorrow are.

If you couldn't arrange to arrive home with the required fuel reserves, then you stopped for fuel enroute to ensure you did so. It's not that hard to figure out, and is a basic flight safety skill.

But sometimes "basic flight safety skills" mean that it's better to get home now without delay, and deal with fueling later. Weather's closing in... or you're running late and it's getting dark... or you're simply tired and don't want to deal with it right now.

I'd rather be home in my own bed with my car in my driveway and my airplane in my own hangar with low fuel knowing I have to deal with it later, than having my plane stuck overnight somewhere away from home with me in a hotel or having to find a ride.

 

[Justin M]

For the past few years, most of the self service pumps that I have used that ask for N number provide my number on the screen somehow, and all I have to do is "confirm" or not. Even airports I have never been to before. I guess they have some sort of AI reader. First time I saw that it was kind of freaky.

Doesn't take AI, the system simply recognizes your card # and associates the N-number you entered last time with it. If another airport uses the same computer billing system, it'll recognize you at that airport, too.

IIRC, many of the Self Serve stations that want it, the N number is entered before the payment card can be presented.

 

[donjohnston]

But my airplane only carries a little over 2 hours worth of fuel. The equation changes depending on how much fuel you carry, and how far away the nearest fuel is... and what your plans for tomorrow are.

If your airplane can only carry two hours of fuel and nearest airport is two hours away, then you will obviously need to bring in fuel.

But sometimes "basic flight safety skills" mean that it's better to get home now without delay, and deal with fueling later. Weather's closing in... or you're running late and it's getting dark... or you're simply tired and don't want to deal with it right now.

I'd rather be home in my own bed with my car in my driveway and my airplane in my own hangar with low fuel knowing I have to deal with it later, than having my plane stuck overnight somewhere away from home with me in a hotel or having to find a ride.

And that's the definition of getthereits. When convenience becomes more important than safety, there's a problem. Weather is closing in? Land. You're tired? Land. Don't want to deal with it? Land.

 

[Ventucky Red]

In my dirt bike two stoke days, I used to get Trick Racing Fule from the local shop, all it was, was 100LL...At the time, 87 octane was $1.25 a gallon, and I was paying $2.75 from the motorcycle shop. Once I realized the two were the same, I would bring a jug to the airport, and when I left would fill it and head home.. I think at the time the cost we $1.30 a gallon. The FBO was more than happy to sell it, and the extra business I brought them when I let my friends know.. The only requirement was that it was a DOT-approved gas can.

 

[JOhnH]

And that's the definition of getthereits. When convenience becomes more important than safety, there's a problem. Weather is closing in? Land. You're tired? Land. Don't want to deal with it? Land.

Landing with low fuel and having to truck some in is not a safety issue. Often times it could be much safer to do that than to try to deal with it away from home when you are tired.

 

[donjohnston]

Landing with low fuel and having to truck some in is not a safety issue.

Never said it was.

Often times it could be much safer to do that than to try to deal with it away from home when you are tired.

I don't see how fueling at an airport away from home is more dangerous than fueling from five gallon cans.

 

[JOhnH]

Never said it was.

I don't see how fueling at an airport away from home is more dangerous than fueling from five gallon cans.

I didn't say it was more dangerous. I said landing at home and handling getting fuel tomorrow is not a safety issue.

But that wasn't really my point either. The OP asked a legitimate question: If he needs avgas, will an FBO sell it to him? It's a legitimate question if your home drome doesn't have fuel. Perhaps his example would have been better if he asked what if he had a fuel leak and lost his fuel? Basing a plane at a field with no fuel is a legitimate cause of concern and he was asking how big a concern and was accused of being -- well you fill in the blanks.

 

[donjohnston]

I didn't say it was more dangerous. I said landing at home and handling getting fuel tomorrow is not a safety issue.

Actually, you said

it could be much safer to do that than to try to deal with it away from home when you are tired.

You didn't say that it's "not a safety issue". You said fueling the plane yourself at your home field is safer than stopping and getting fuel when you're "tired". Saying one thing is "safer" means the other is less safe.

But sure, you didn't say "dangerous". But I would say that if you're too tired to land, taxi to the FBO, have a line guy put some fuel in your tanks, and take off then you probably shouldn't be flying in the first place. Even if the field only has self serve, if you're too tired to handle that safely, you should stay on the ground. Get a hotel until you're better rested.

I have spent more than a few nights in hotels in less than desirable places because weather didn't behave as forecast or I got a late start and felt that continuing was not the safest decision because of fatigue. I've also landed and got fuel when headwinds or weather diversions required.

 

[Daleandee]

I've been based at an airport without fuel for a couple of decades. It just isn't a problem. I generally keep enough in the tank to get to more fuel when I need it. I have small tank that's ~2 hours with an hour reserve (I like landing with at least an hour of fuel).

Still, there have been a few times over the years when I've needed to purchase fuel in an approved container. The airport guys know me and my N number pops up when I insert my card. If you regularly visit and buy fuel from nearby airports they know you and are usually more than willing to sell you fuel in an approved container when/if you need it ...