Becoming an AMT (A&P) through OJT

[schmookeeg]

Take the FSDO letter. Go to Bakers. Look around while you're there. I think that will convince you to skip the 2 years because you're already WAY ahead of the curve.

I never saw so many qualified idiots than my 2 weeks at Bakers. That gave me a big confidence boost. That some of them were still on their 4th and 5th attempt at the written exams when I was doing my practical just reinforced things a bit. The DME offering me an A&P job after my checkride was icing on the whole experience.

Your experience sounds similar to mine, and even better. I think you'll have a comparable time of it.

 

[Brad Smith]

If you enjoy learning and not in a hurry, go for it! You will pick up a lot of knowledge and perhaps learn new methods to use on familiar tasks. Also, you’ll work with a lot of like-minded students which is a nice side benefit.

 

[Gary Ward]

I am not getting any younger, so kind of in a hurry. Trying to keep an open mind, been kicking this around for several years. Talked to my AP/IA this past Sat. He said the same thing as you, lot's of idiots at the school since he taught there for a time years ago. I can't imagine it gotten any better? So now I am not so sure I want to spend the money and time at the school. He seemed to think it would be a waste of time basically. I am not sure what to do? But I am going to do something finally.

 

[Bell206]

I am not sure what to do?

With your background, talk to your APIA and get a letter the ASI will accept (key part). Remember there is also an oral and practical side of the tests. Then get your 8610s and either cram the test questions or go to Bakers. Once you have your ticket if you run across something you're unsure of ask questions. Simple.

 

[Magman]

Does the classroom time count towards experience if taught by an A&P?

Officially no.

However; the feds are aware there is some hands-on from time to time and they seem to accept it in most cases.

The concept can be used if you can assemble a reasonable size group with the goal of getting the ticket. A MIL base or large FBO would be possibilities.

 

[Kristin]

I bought my books from a student who quit AP school and went to work at the City bus garage.
I have 35 years experience owning and maintaining a small fleet of trucks, 20 years experience racing and the last 5 years working with 2 AP/IA from time to time.
I have been logging my work with APs.
I applied for the fall semester at the State college that owns our airport. I am in it for the long haul hopefully and plan to finish to be able to test for a AP certificate. I will be pretty old when I get done but still think it will be worth it? Not planning on making a living at it, probably be retired by then? Maybe someone may need me part time, pay for my AVfuel?

My ap/IA thinks the school will be somewhat redundant and thinks he could write a letter to the local FSDO office and then I could go to Bakers for 2 weeks? I feel the school would teach me more? Am I on the right track going to the local college? TIA

My two cents would be that for someone starting out as a career, the school may be the better bet as it will be a more broad education. OJT is probably more in depth, but on a narrower range of subjects, hewing closely to the type of work the shop does. Quality can vary widely depending on how much the supervising mechanics are really into teaching.

 

[Tools]

My advice would be to start SOMETHING. Either is fine “depending”...

I have high school interns that will be nearing half their 65.77 experience using school programs and working for me part time (rather than flipping burgers) by the time they graduate high school, and have a job lined up to finish their experience.

But if you have what ever means is necessary to do the school, go for it. It’s quicker. “Quality” of the education of one over the other is random to the point the practicality of just getting there is more important.

 

[Kristin]

My advice would be to start SOMETHING. Either is fine “depending”...

I have high school interns that will be nearing half their 65.77 experience using school programs and working for me part time (rather than flipping burgers) by the time they graduate high school, and have a job lined up to finish their experience.

But if you have what ever means is necessary to do the school, go for it. It’s quicker. “Quality” of the education of one over the other is random to the point the practicality of just getting there is more important.

I think it bears repeating that the quality of the schools and the quality of the apprenticeship will vary wildly. Not all schools are great and not all those who undertake to train an apprentice are up for the job. Conversely, there are doubtless excellent examples of both. All this leaves the decisionmaker the task of checking out the options and deciding which works best. I am currently supervising a Part 65, future mechanic. I will do my best not to screw it up.

 

[Magman]

It seems the situ that Tools described in #47 would be perfect for a “ 65.77 Class”.

A business has to get projects out the door in order to turn a profit. There are times that “ help” is anything but. Having your supervising A & P attempt to explain Ohm’s Law prior to changing a light bulb is counterproductive for all involved.

The alternative is having a class that meets periodically to cover many of the subject areas that are required knowledge. The exact material can be tailored to
the particular group. I’m sure folks such as Gary Ward, EAA folks considering a project, MIL Techs, and current and future aircraft owners would fill up the class. Folks can live at home while continuing their jobs but still preparing for the future.

Since you are not tied to a bunch of expensive equipment there are many options for a venue. Adult Ed Programs are obvious. Many airports subscribe to the
“Activity breeds Activity” concept and will offer the use of facilities at times.

The typical A &P should have the Technical Knowledge ; albeit a review may be needed. Teaching Skills are not inherent but are acquired . A teacher to coach these would be helpful.

Since the intent is to acquire Knowledge this non- certified system would offer a cost effective way to do so.

 

[martym]

I applied for the fall semester at the State college that owns our airport. I am in it for the long haul hopefully and plan to finish to be able to test for a AP certificate. I will be pretty old when I get done but still think it will be worth it?
My ap/IA thinks the school will be somewhat redundant and thinks he could write a letter to the local FSDO office

I had a cousin that received his A&P cert. at age 70. Despite having 3 Bachelor's degrees, an AF career in Century series fighters, etc., he said it was the most satisfying thing he had ever done. Regardless of the school bashing, it's the absolute best way to get an A&P. It's faster, you learn enough to pass all the tests without taking prep classes and if the DME is on staff you will be familiar with what it takes to pass by the time you are ready to test.
Just curious what authorizes your A&P to write a magical letter? Regardless of what he writes, you will still have to show compliance with the regs.

 

[Bell206]

what authorizes your A&P to write a magical letter? Regardless of what he writes, you will still have to show compliance with the regs.

It is one method to document an applicant's experience to the ASI. There is no set requirements per se outside the attendance of an approved school in how you document this experience. And the ASI's guidance in 8900.1 is pretty flexible.

 

[Magman]

As has been said; there is quite a difference between AMTS. Don’t automatically assume bigger is better.

Large schools often have instructors that only teach 1 or 2 subject areas so they can update their preparations easier. They also tend to have more mock-ups and training materials. There can also be more options on class starting dates.

Smaller schools ( public high schools ?) may not have the budget of the larger schools. However; this could include more “ live work” in the program . Ie Fabric / paint may have students doing actual covering projects. Annual Inspections may be another.

The Region would evaluate schools based on Written Test performance. It’s possible your FSDO may share this info with you.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

I had a cousin that received his A&P cert. at age 70. Despite having 3 Bachelor's degrees, an AF career in Century series fighters, etc., he said it was the most satisfying thing he had ever done. Regardless of the school bashing, it's the absolute best way to get an A&P. It's faster, you learn enough to pass all the tests without taking prep classes and if the DME is on staff you will be familiar with what it takes to pass by the time you are ready to test.
Just curious what authorizes your A&P to write a magical letter? Regardless of what he writes, you will still have to show compliance with the regs.

Documentation of experience scope and duration are what’s in the letter. Nothing special qualifies someone to write a letter. One of mine wasn’t even written by a mechanic. It was the secretary that managed payroll but that letter only covered how many hours of experience. I documented the scope of work separately.
There’s nothing special about the process. Just document the experience. Letters, logbooks, etc. it’s all just words on paper written by people.

 

[Tools]

About the last bastion on earth where handwritten logs mean something...

 

[Zoboo]

Hi All,

I was hoping I could get some added direction with my situation in pursuit of my A&P certificates. I'm going the OJT route as an aircraft owner. My remaining questions are, is this a good/feasible way to do this and how do I know when I'm ready to take the written tests (and later the practicals after I pass the tests, obviously).

Quick background - I'm 45 now and been working on cars and anything mechanical since 16. I'm also a CFII.

A&P Experience - I started tallying my experience five years ago during prebuy inspections for my first airplane. My friend and IA recommended I did all the AD research, review annual checklists from any type clubs, and anything else that would help us know what to look for. My friend is meticulous but the research is part of the learning for me.

Since buying my first plane five years ago (Cessna 150) I did 100% of the work under his supervision. We did more than just annuals, we did lots of extra jobs and upgrades just for the experience. This included researching parts, reading the maintenance manuals, performing the work, writing the logbook entries, preparing 337s, etc. Further, I bought a second flyable but plenty of projects plane (Luscombe 8A) for additional projects and have since done many of them in the same fashion.

We have a DME on the field and he has told me that applicants whose history relies solely on building their RVs or other kitplane from scratch have met the experience requirements. I haven't done this and, of course, I haven't done every job there is to do on an airplane. But, I am at the point where I feel I can handle a wide variety of tasks after reviewing the manuals, etc. However, this doesn't mean I wouldn't have questions I would want to ask more experienced mechanics is some situations but this will always be true I would think.

You might say, just ask your IA friend and see what he says. Well, he has been a mechanic for nearly 40 years but never signed off anyone to be a mechanic. Even in this situation, he will rely on my research and put it on me to prove to him when he's ready to sign.

Constructive criticism is welcome, be direct I have thick skin. I am willing to do the short Baker course if you think it will help. I have a full time non aviation job and won't retire for years to come.

Thanks for any help you can share.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

Do you have a log of all of the work you’ve done? Not the airplane logs, but your own log of times you’ve done airplane work. That documentation would be the first step, from what I’ve gathered (no pun).

 

[Zoboo]

Yes, on the log. However, I may tweak it to show a better breakdown for small jobs done during an annual as mentioned in a previous post (grease wheel bearings 1.1 hours, etc.).

 

[Bell206]

I am willing to do the short Baker course if you think it will help.

Bakers will get you there sooner than later. But you need your test authorization slips first from your local FSDO. I would make an appointment with a maintenance ASI and see what your FSDO specifically needs to issue the test slips. Not all require the same. Have assisted several going the OJT route over the past years and the last 3 went the Baker route.

how do I know when I'm ready to take the written tests (

One way is to go over the FAA test books and when you think you nail over 60% of the questions take the tests. Or at Bakers you'll be ready before you know it

 

[martym]

My remaining questions are, is this a good/feasible way to do this and how do I know when I'm ready to take the written tests (and later the practicals after I pass the tests, obviously).

U don’t take any test until the FAA provides authorization and they don’t do that until you show to the satisfaction of the administrator that you meet experience requirements. When they say 30 months they mean working 40 hrs per week (4800 hrs) and that experience has to cover the required subject areas. Need to have that documented or better, go to the FSDO and ask what kind of documentation they want to see.

 

[Zoboo]

Thank you all. I will make contact the FSDO tomorrow to see what they want. I know each FSDO is independently owned and operated so I'm curious to see what mine requires. I'll report back.

I know I'm not there quite yet but it's certainly time to get a final plan together.

 

[Magman]

You may want to get your reply via e- mail or paper with a name on it. Folks do retire or move and the successor may have a different opinion.

 

[Zoboo]

Good point. Will do, thanks.