Becoming an Ag Pilot....

Snaggletooth

Snaggletooth

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Dustin
My dream is to become an Ag Pilot, but I have a few questions...

1. I hear it's a hard field to get in too. Whats the best way to go about getting in to Ag Piloting?

2. Do I need to go to an Ag Pilot school, or can I just get an Ag Plane and spray water till I get the hang of it?

3. What plane Should I start with? Ag Cat? Air Tractor?
 
Snaggletooth said:
My dream is to become an Ag Pilot, but I have a few questions...

1. I hear it's a hard field to get in too. Whats the best way to go about getting in to Ag Piloting?

2. Do I need to go to an Ag Pilot school, or can I just get an Ag Plane and spray water till I get the hang of it?

3. What plane Should I start with? Ag Cat? Air Tractor?
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I would not recommend a "learn yourself" approch to any particularly hazardous form of aviation.

But this comes up at least once or twice a year, try the search function.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16207

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25970

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15261

http://www.borderpilot.com/
 
Especially if you are a low hour pilot (or in your case, a no hour pilot since you're just starting your training). As a test pilot I once talked to said, the difference between a daring pilot and damn fool is completely in how he approaches something with a lot of risk involved. Just "spraying water" until you get the hang of agricultural application pretty much immediately qualifies one as the latter classification.

At a minimum you'll need your commercial pilot's license and then you should seek specialized training on how to safely operate in what is a very crash prone subset of aviation. I would start by contacting the National Agricultural Aviation Association (http://www.agaviation.org/). They also have a page dedicated to the very kinds of questions you are asking: http://www.agaviation.org/AgAviationCareers/becomepilot.htm
 
Ask around in your area for spray operators looking for summer help. There are many ways to learn the operation and one of them is from shagging spray trucks and supplies, mixing chemicals, cleaning tanks in between chemicals, ext. This will get you exposed (no pun intended) to the Ag world, getting your license, commercial rating, and spraying license will come later. There is no substitute for experience.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
I would not recommend a "learn yourself" approach to any particularly hazardous form of aviation.
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A very good friend of mine was killed learning to be an ag-pilot, his dad was a crop duster and they bought a second airplane for Kurt so they could be partners. Kurt had 100 hours total time and was flying the plane to build up his hours. He was doing practice runs down the road from his families farm and crashed. His was killed instantly and a post crash fire destroyed the plane. NTSB report says a control cable failure was the cause of the crash. Kurt was 27 and left behind two small boys 2 and 4.

http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=MKC89FA104&rpt=fa
 
Are there any Ag Pilot Schools In Texas? As far as I know the closest one is Flying Tiger Aviation in Louisiana.
 
Snaggletooth said:
My dream is to become an Ag Pilot, but I have a few questions...

1. I hear it's a hard field to get in too. Whats the best way to go about getting in to Ag Piloting?

2. Do I need to go to an Ag Pilot school, or can I just get an Ag Plane and spray water till I get the hang of it?

3. What plane Should I start with? Ag Cat? Air Tractor?
Click to expand...

1. Two basic routes, you can go to school and learn it. I'd suggest the place in Bainebridge GA. If you have a CPL and 1000hrs or so when you come out of the school, you'll be able to be hired into a seat. You can also take a job with an operator starting as a mixer/loader (you have to learn the pesticide end of the business and be licensed as an Applicator as well as knowing the flying.) and they will train you up and give you a seat as soon as they feel you are ready and worthy.

2. There is an exception, but you need to work hard and be smart, and be able to buy an Ag Plane. I would suggest that if you are going to buy an Ag Plane and go at it, you buy a Cessna Ag Husky, and find somewhere to get a few hours training in a Pitts before you get in it to fly it, and make sure that the tailwheel is always in excellent condition and cables at proper tension. Learn FAR Pt 137,and order the Aerial Applicators Pilots Manual from the AAAA, the Aerial Agriculture Association of Australia. It is a very comprehensive text that deals with everything you need to know to a reasonable degree of depth. (In Aus I had to take an Ag written, and it's based on this book, which as an already working Ag pilot, I found to be a very good reference text, and I still own mine.) You can then practice by hauling and spraying increasing size loads of water on a farmers pasture or field that doesn't mind. Make sure you do some dumps with various loads as well. You can then ask the FAA to do a Pt 137 observance sign off where they'll have you come to an airport and make a few passes and turns next to the runway. With a commercial, 400 hrs with 100 practicing in your Sat Loc equipped Ag Husky, you'll be able to lease yourself out on Bol Weevil contracts (the Ag Husky is the most profitable plane to operate on those contracts, next is a recip Dromader) and on larger bug run operations as the clean up plane doing the little fields and field end cross passes that are inefficient to use a big turbine plane for.

If you live in rice country, then the Ag Cat is a better choice because you have 600hp to pick up heavy wet germinated rice you're spreading, and the Advantage you have over a 301 or 401 Air Tractor is that you have a wing well above your head which holds you out of the water when you go into a flooded paddy and end up upside down.
 
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Thanks for the helpful post!!

I do live in Rice country. How much are Ag Cats theses days? I'd just like a bit if a sticker shock.
 
Snaggletooth said:
I do live in Rice country. How much are Ag Cats theses days? I'd just like a bit if a sticker shock.
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Looking at trade-a-plane, there are 3 listed with prices: $57,000 and $65,000 for the recip-powered ones, and $210,000 for the turbine-powered one. :yikes:

If you search on trade-a-plane.com, barnstormers.com, and globalplanesearch.com, you'll cover your bases pretty well. globalplanesearch.com aggregates responses from ASO, Controller, and quite a few others.
 
Wow...I found a few for $35,000 yesterday. I wonder why the ones you found are some much higher?
 
I personally think the best way is to go to work for an established operator and learn the business. You will be doing the loading and other ground op's, and in the meantime the operator is going to be observing your willingness to work long, hot, dirty hours. Buying an ag plane and trying to learn this on your own is not a very good idea in my opinion.
 
SteveinMichigan said:
At a minimum you'll need your commercial pilot's license
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Incorrect, as long as you are only spraying your own fields, you can do so on a PPL. I know several PP farmers who did exactly as the OP suggested and bough a plane and practiced with water. They already had ground rigs and applicators licenses and knew how to calibrate their spray gear, which is the biggest part about learning to fly ag. The flying is really easy and boring, it's the rest of the stuff, the job that one does with the plane, that's the more difficult part and requires the most training.
 
Snaggletooth said:
Wow...I found a few for $35,000 yesterday. I wonder why the ones you found are some much higher?
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The Satloc system and flow control can be $30k if you get a top end one, and often ag planes come with spare engines, booms and nozzle sets. A bare bones 600hp ag cat typically goes for between $25,000 and $35,000 with a Satloc Light at most(if that). More stuff = more $$$. A good one fully equipped with an integral flow control (automatically adjusts the flow for groundspeed for more precise application) and a spare engine (you need one ready to bolt on over night if you are serious about being in business. Aerial Applications is a very time sensitive operation and you always have to be ready to go, that's where the turbine birds gain their advantage) can easily be $75k.
 
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Well, first you don't seem to mention your ratings or experience.
Ag flying has changed in the last few years. Everything is dictated by
the insurance companies. When I started over forty years ago, no
one carried insurance. Now, it is almost impossible to get insurance without an Ag School certificate. At lot of tailwheel time is required.
Don't buy an ag plane if you have to build time. Get a good tailwheel
trainer, your CFI and sell tailwheel signoffs. Also, a good way to
built tailwheel time is towing banners.

Good luck,
Skyking:blueplane:
 
Right now I'm a student pilot. I have logged about 30 minutes of flight time.
 
Ag Piloting sounds like it very, very hard to get in to these days. I think I may start looking in to a different type of piloting. Air Liners are out for me, I want something thats more..... "hands on" rather than pressing an autopilot button then setting back.

What other kinds of piloting is there? I want to stay with GA type aircraft. Single engine if at all possible. What all does a Charter Pilot do? I've thought Bush piloting but I think I heard 1 out of 8 pilots will die in a 30 year career (that and I hate the cold).
 
Snaggletooth said:
Ag Piloting sounds like it very, very hard to get in to these days. I think I may start looking in to a different type of piloting. Air Liners are out for me, I want something thats more..... "hands on" rather than pressing an autopilot button then setting back.

What other kinds of piloting is there? I want to stay with GA type aircraft. Single engine if at all possible. What all does a Charter Pilot do? I've thought Bush piloting but I think I heard 1 out of 8 pilots will die in a 30 year career (that and I hate the cold).
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Do something profitable so you can afford to fly on your own terms. Aerial photography can make you some money, and you can do that for the most part with a rented 152.

Bush, pipeline and ag are the only flying I'd do. Not all bush flying is cold. I have a buddy in the Congo with a flying service there. Bush flying happens all over the world. If you really want to fly ag, you should, but it's boring. There are still lower budget non turbine seats available for lower time (500hrs) available as first seats. You work a season or two and you'll be put in a turbine.
 
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I'd really like to do something that would let me stay in the US.). Are there any need for Bush pilots in the US? Is it hard to become a Bush Pilot?
 
Snaggletooth said:
I'd really like to do something that would let me stay in the US.). Are there any need for Bush pilots in the US? Is it hard to become a Bush Pilot?
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About the same as an ag pilot. You'll find if you want to make real money, you'll have to take contracts overseas. I've spent more than 60% of my career outside the US.
 
Ummm... sounds like it would be best to stay with Ag Flying maybe. I'd really like to stay in my own area. I live in an area with lots of farms, so I could stay in the area.
 
Snaggletooth said:
Ummm... sounds like it would be best to stay with Ag Flying maybe. I'd really like to stay in my own area. I live in an area with lots of farms, so I could stay in the area.
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If you want to stay in the area, ag and pipeline are your main choices. Where in Hell...errrr....Texas do you live?
 
Gulf Coast...
An Ag Pilot my Dad does work for every now and then said pipeline is a good time builder for CPL.

Oh, and one of the Ag Pilots my dad was around today had a bird strike. The AT-502 took a Great White Heron to the wing tip. Minor damage, they just changed the skin out and went back to work.
 
SkyKing said:
Well, first you don't seem to mention your ratings or experience.
Ag flying has changed in the last few years. Everything is dictated by
the insurance companies. When I started over forty years ago, no
one carried insurance. Now, it is almost impossible to get insurance without an Ag School certificate. At lot of tailwheel time is required.
Don't buy an ag plane if you have to build time. Get a good tailwheel
trainer, your CFI and sell tailwheel signoffs. Also, a good way to
built tailwheel time is towing banners.

Good luck,
Skyking:blueplane:
Click to expand...

Hi Skyking, Nice to see another old cropduster on here.
 
Snaggletooth said:
Gulf Coast...
An Ag Pilot my Dad does work for every now and then said pipeline is a good time builder for CPL.

Oh, and one of the Ag Pilots my dad was around today had a bird strike. The AT-502 took a Great White Heron to the wing tip. Minor damage, they just changed the skin out and went back to work.
Click to expand...

Snaggletooth

You ought to be able to find an operator in that area that will take you on as a ground crew guy. You might get lucky and find the right operator that will work with you and teach you the business from the "ground up". After you pay your dues, so to speak, you can work yourself into a good paying seat. I know a lot of guys that are making what major airline pilots are making.

The big thing to remember in this business, as Skyking said, insurance drives this business. In other words, if you ever want to get into one of the good paying jobs, you will have to have a clean record, these days, no insurance company is going to touch you if you have had several crashes or drift claims. Keep your nose clean and don't be a know it all.
 
Henning said:
True, I was just clarifying that a 137 sign off wasn't dependent on a CPL ticket.
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Right...it's just like if I wanted to make my parents pay me (beyond fuel costs, etc) for the trip down to Florida we are planning for once I complete my training, I would have to have my commercial ticket.
 
Agrinaut said:
Snaggletooth

You ought to be able to find an operator in that area that will take you on as a ground crew guy.
Click to expand...

That brings up another issue, how old are you? I believe you have to be 18 to take a job with an operator because of the chemicals and hazards.
 
Snaggletooth said:
I'd really like to do something that would let me stay in the US.). Are there any need for Bush pilots in the US? Is it hard to become a Bush Pilot?
Click to expand...

Join the military and let Uncle teach and train you.:smile:

Skyking
 
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