Becoming a Pilot

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Quincy_Gatlin

Filing Flight Plan
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Quincy
Hello, I just joined the forums, forgive me if I am not posting this in the correct area.

My name is Quincy, I'm 19 years old and I live in southern TN. I have always had an interest in aviation and outer space since I was a small child, my dad and I have done quite a bit of work at the local airport in the past and I enjoyed checking out the planes in the maintenance hangar near where we worked. I enjoyed it enough to buy some flight simulators for my PC and I have been diddling with them for years now, just trying to learn small things as I go that could be applied to real world flying, such as communications and IFR and things like that that are a lot similar in the real world I'm sure, in hopes that it would make real world training a bit easier to comprehend. I've had a lot of small jobs like walmart and a couple factories around my town but I've mostly just helped my dad with plumbing and electric for the last few years, I don't mind the work but it's not exactly what I would like to do for the rest of my life.

I would like to become a pilot but I can see that it appears to become very expensive, very quickly. I looked into a couple colleges and university's (MTSU, Embry-Riddle, Wallace State, etc) and I know I could get into them and get student aid to pay for a lot of it, but all of their flight instruction programs prices are added on top of tuition and other costs (MTSU flight lab for private license is $11,000!) and I'm not sure if their student loans would help pay for that or not. I found a few websites like pilotfinance.com and they seem to have extremely high interest rates and I'm scared if I took on a debt like that being a new pilot I wouldn't get many jobs and not be able to pay for it. I know college has got to be the best way to go for this field, I'm sure that's what most companies look for.

I don't really want to be an airline pilot or anything, I would rather fly smaller aircraft or cargo planes. All of it seems interesting to me though. I guess what I'm asking for is advice for what I should do? Is it fairly easy to pay the debt back? If I have another source of income for backup is this the way to go? Or does anyone know anything more about the college situations and student aid covering flight costs? Or should I skip out on college and work to get licensed from a private instructor?

Sorry if I overloaded you on questions, I have tons, thanks for any help!
 
Quincy,

Welcome to the group. Learning to fly has never been cheap, but I think it has gotten even more expensive. I don't know that I have any answers, but I will share my thoughts. The only value of colleges like Embry-Riddle for flight training is if your goal is the airlines and you can get enough scholarship or family assistance. If you are not interested in the airlines, then they are a waste of money, unless you are pursuing some other degree there like engineering.

I discovered flying while studying computers and working part time as a programmer. Flying was a lot more interesting so I decided to follow that as a career. Let you, I didn't have any intention of flying for the airlines, though when I learned, there were few opportunities for women there. I worked, lived at home, and put my money towards learning to fly. I got my private in about three months with about 55 hours. Organize your finances to fly regularly or you will end up wasting money. You need to fly at least three times a week to make sure that minimum time is spend reviewing what was done before. I did that and finished in about 3 1/2 months.

The next year I got my instrument rating, and the following year I got my commercial and CFI. Then I went back to college and instructed part time to build flight experience and provide a little bit of income. When I went back, I also went to A&P school to better understand how the planes worked, and that ended up opening some other doors for income.

Hanging out at the local airport can provide opportunities to build flight experience and make contacts. Pilots are often generous about taking interest students flying and giving an opportunity to get a little stick time in their plane. This way you may find an opportunity to become partners in an aircraft, trade some work cleaning the plane for flight time, or who knows. But flying always starts at the airport, so that is where you need to be if you want to pursue this dream.
 
Kristin said:
Hanging out at the local airport can provide opportunities to build flight experience and make contacts. Pilots are often generous about taking interest students flying and giving an opportunity to get a little stick time in their plane. This way you may find an opportunity to become partners in an aircraft, trade some work cleaning the plane for flight time, or who knows. But flying always starts at the airport, so that is where you need to be if you want to pursue this dream.
Click to expand...

This.

I ran a poll here awhile backing asking pilots if they would take a stranger flying with them, i.e. someone that was hanging out at the airport and walked up to them while they were doing a preflight. IIRC, about 75% said they would. Don't be shy, being shy gets you absolutely nowhere.
 
I personally don't like taking on debt to do anything, but I have before (maybe thats why I don't like it). Anyway don't waste your money on expensive schools, fly at a local airport with good rates who want you there. Get your PPL and then see how far you want to take it.
 
Quincy, you are getting good advice.
Flying is a wonderful career - keeps you from gaining weight because you can't afford food.
Given what you have written I would recommend you ask the family for financial help getting your Private Pilot rating. Then if you are still full of enthusiasm get the Commercial and CFI ratings and begin instructing. From there it will go where you take it. Whether you do this with your local CFI or go to a formal school depends on your circumstances.

As far as getting rides at the local airport - I differ from the above posting in that I am unlikely to take someone flying just because they ask. ( Different from 50 years ago)
OTOH, if you become a known face around the local airport, are not covered in tattoos with your cap sideways and your pants down around your knees, can speak english (what a 50 year old upper middle class person considers english), and are pleasant to be around, then asking is likely to get you a ride now and then.

From you signature I suspect you might be from the Gatlinburg area (?). You might want to be more specific as to the nearest airports and you may get an offer for a ride based on your posting on here. Were you close to me I would offer at this point.

Good luck.
 
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I'm all for going to college. I'm all for learning how to fly. You don't have to go to college and major in aviation to be a pilot. Please be scared of going into debt to learn to fly. If you are thinking of some kind of professional flying career (and there are many professional pilots who have never stepped into the cockpit of an airliner), the debt repayment can crush someone on an entry level flying job.

If your not really looking to be an airline pilot, seniority won't matter. So it doesn't matter if you take extra time to self fund your flight training. Think about a junior college for 2 years and transferring to a 4 year university to finish off your degree. Work to pay for flight training and keep your expenses low. Keep your options open. One way to do that is to keep your debt in check.
 
I would just add that going to college and getting a degree in something to fall back on if you have to give up flying as a profession is also wise.

When my sons were talking about professional sports as a career I told them to remember that you are always one play away from the end of your career. Have a backup plan.

Much like professional sports, as a pilot your medical status can remove your means of earning a living. OK, flying is not quite like professional sports, but still…have a backup plan.

Also, I second what people say about not going into debt for something that pays so poorly. It is harder but you can do it by earning along the way and paying as you go.

Just my $.02 and in no way intended to talk you out of learning to fly. I waited until my mid-forties to learn and I wish I'd done it much earlier. But I have intention of earning my living that way either.

John
 
I think that if you want the career then you should go for the degree. That will give you a lot more options for work, IMO. Do not get onerous loans because starting salaries for pilots are not high.

Have you checked out smaller schools like F.I.T.?

http://www.fitaviation.com/

This assumes that your academics are strong enough to succeed in college. If not, consider getting an A&P and working in that field while you train.
 
If you want to fly as a career, and get a degree, get an engineering degree. It's related and you'll have something to fall back on if the flying thing doesn't work out.
 
Welcome to the forum. Have you looked into smaller schools or community colleges? You could star by working on an associates degree,while working on your Private rating. Money is never easy. I wouldn't go for big loans unless I was sure aviation was my future.
 
Quincy_Gatlin said:
Hello, I just joined the forums, forgive me if I am not posting this in the correct area.

My name is Quincy, I'm 19 years old and I live in southern TN. I have always had an interest in aviation and outer space since I was a small child, my dad and I have done quite a bit of work at the local airport in the past and I enjoyed checking out the planes in the maintenance hangar near where we worked. I enjoyed it enough to buy some flight simulators for my PC and I have been diddling with them for years now, just trying to learn small things as I go that could be applied to real world flying, such as communications and IFR and things like that that are a lot similar in the real world I'm sure, in hopes that it would make real world training a bit easier to comprehend. I've had a lot of small jobs like walmart and a couple factories around my town but I've mostly just helped my dad with plumbing and electric for the last few years, I don't mind the work but it's not exactly what I would like to do for the rest of my life.

I would like to become a pilot but I can see that it appears to become very expensive, very quickly. I looked into a couple colleges and university's (MTSU, Embry-Riddle, Wallace State, etc) and I know I could get into them and get student aid to pay for a lot of it, but all of their flight instruction programs prices are added on top of tuition and other costs (MTSU flight lab for private license is $11,000!) and I'm not sure if their student loans would help pay for that or not. I found a few websites like pilotfinance.com and they seem to have extremely high interest rates and I'm scared if I took on a debt like that being a new pilot I wouldn't get many jobs and not be able to pay for it. I know college has got to be the best way to go for this field, I'm sure that's what most companies look for.

I don't really want to be an airline pilot or anything, I would rather fly smaller aircraft or cargo planes. All of it seems interesting to me though. I guess what I'm asking for is advice for what I should do? Is it fairly easy to pay the debt back? If I have another source of income for backup is this the way to go? Or does anyone know anything more about the college situations and student aid covering flight costs? Or should I skip out on college and work to get licensed from a private instructor?

Sorry if I overloaded you on questions, I have tons, thanks for any help!
Click to expand...

Quincy, as a new private pilot you won't get ANY flying jobs, because flying for money requires a commercial pilot certificate....the money for accumulating the 250 hour minimum for that certificate comes out of your pocket.

You have received some very good advice in this thread.

Bob Gardner
 
I would advise going to college in the least expensive way possible, and then using that savings to learn to fly while in college (whether in an aviation program or otherwise).

Look at options like community college while living at home, scholarships to state schools, etc. College is a period when you'll have some free time; money will be the issue. There are a lot of random scholarships out there nobody knows about or bothers applying for; if you talk with a high school guidance counselor or even a current college student, they might be able to point you in the right direction.

If you can get money to go to an aviation program, great. If you can get money to go to a "normal" degree at a state school or community college, that means you can pour a higher percentage of your part-time job type money into private training.

As my high school math teacher was fond of saying when people were talking about how they were going to go to the big name school over the state school on a full ride, "take the money!"

A lot of the bigger money out there depends on what your academic record is like, etc., but there are things like $1000 essay contests and grants from local cultural organizations and rotary clubs and that sort of thing that are pretty open if you go for it. Add enough of that together and you can get a decent degree while being able to take what would otherwise be your "working-your-way-through-school" money and make it your "learning-to-fly" money instead.

Graduate with a degree and a PPL (IR if you can swing it) and then get a "real job" while building to commercial and go from there.

Just one option.
 
like others have mentioned, you don't need an aviation degree from riddle or any big name aviation schools. you'll just be in debt. i also agree that going to your local airport and hanging around is a good idea. make connections with people, offer to wash their planes or do odd jobs for them in exchange for some flight time. when you do start training, do your PPL in the cheapest plane. it will save you a lot. try to fly as often as you can when you start your training. 3 times a week worked well for me. get all the money for the training beforehand so you won't be stopping and going with your training. most importantly have fun!
 
I wonder if Henning is looking for a protégé?
 
Quincy, I'm going to be the horse's posterior here.

Go to college and study something like computer science that gets you into a very well paying IT career. You can then buy a nice airplane.

Join Civil Air Patrol for a cheap private ticket. You'll have to put up with some military BS, but the ticket's cheap.
 
Dr. O said:
From you signature I suspect you might be from the Gatlinburg area (?). You might want to be more specific as to the nearest airports and you may get an offer for a ride based on your posting on here. Were you close to me I would offer at this point.
Click to expand...

Actually that's my last name haha. I'm from southern middle Tennessee (Fayetteville, just above Huntsville, AL). Fayetteville would be the closest airport, of course, but Shelbyville, Tullahoma, Winchester, and Lewisburg aren't far away. Sometimes I go to Fayetteville airport and just sit around and watch the planes come and go. I might actually go do that in a few, and go in and talk to the fella I know. Kinda try to get my foot in the door.

And thank you everyone for all of the advice! It helps a lot!
 
Hey Quincy. Fellow young adult here. I'm 22, hold a private pilot's license, and attend Embry-Riddle Aero University Worldwide.

I'm incredibly lucky because my father is well off enough financially to send me well on my way to the University as well as sponsoring my Private Pilot's license about 4-5 years ago now. I have about 94 hours so far and am pretty far out of currency, mostly because college is expensive. The typical class for ERAU online is $975 per 9 week course, in class $925. I did a lot of stuff for my father while back at home like you (helped build a house), and only recently got a job. I moved out just over a year ago to Oklahoma from California and worked fast food for 7 months. Luckily, I made a friend in class that knows a friend who owns an aviation parts sales place for passenger jets and managed to get hired. At $14/hr, I'm able to start paying for a class or two on my own as well as books, but as for being able to get back in the air, not likely until I'm done with college. I've looked around for a bit for scholarships in-house to ERAU, but I haven't been able to qualify for a lot of them. FAFSA laughs at me due to my dad's income.

It was about $110 to fly an hour without instructor back in CA (N42126/N7944L), maybe 40/50 hr on that with instructor. Plus ground school and supplies and tests and checkrides, probably 12-15 grand out the pocket of my father.

Like you, I am also aiming for a smaller time aviation job. Until I get back in the air though and current again and an IFR rating with a commercial license, I'm keeping my mind open.

My experience with ERAU, having 5 classes left, is this. It's expensive for what it is, at least at the worldwide level. I have had some fantastic top of the line instructors, but more often than not I've had people who just read off of a syllabus. Had an intro to computers class where the instructor didn't know what fiber optic cable was and how CD's work. Computer networking class where the instructor didn't know what an HDD was. This was the case at the community college I took the core stuff like speech and english at, but still. From what I've read and heard, which isn't a whole lot, the pilot training course is expensive on top of expensive. I can't speak for the quality in it though, I haven't been to the main campus in AZ or FL, again due to the cost of living on a campus.

My degree will be in Professional Aeronautics, which is more of the business side of the house in aviation. Not necessarily where I want to be, but like others have said in this thread, it diversifies your abilities and lets you have something to fall back on.

I also tried AFROTC for a year and decided that it was not my cup of tea.

I'm considering the CFI approach after getting my degree completed to build up some hours and get some experience. If you've got any more questions about ERAU or flying or anything, let me know, I'll be more than happy to help with what I can!

//edit
I have had the chance to talk to a few professional high-time jet pilots about their degrees and their views on them. One of them was a TOPGUN F-18 driver in Nevada whose call sign was "Hammer" and another was a 737 captain deadheading on a flight that I struck up a conversation with. Both got their jobs with a 4 year degree in, I kid you not, elementary education. Both emphasized the fact that it didn't matter what you had a degree in or where it was from, as long as you had one.

I disagree with them, mostly because I don't want to teach elementary education should my job disappear, and also because the quality of my education is important in how I'll use it one day.
 
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I'm graduating college this week with a business degree. My junior year I started flying and by the end of the summer after senior year part1, I was a CFI. I've now got two separate skill sets I can market, and I'll never be dependent on passing my medical for my paycheck. I highly recommend a degree away from aviation, an aviation degree isn't useful if you don't stay healthy.


Also, the cargo pilot route is a solid choice. If I had 1200 hours I'd be applying for those jobs. Boxes don't run up and down the isles poking other boxes.
 
With respect to fun flying, I had a blast flying night cargo, low these many years ago. I enjoyed charter flying and flight instructing. I got out of IT before anyone had heard of Bill Gates. I would have made much more money if I had stayed in it, but it just wasn't something I wanted to do everyday for the rest of my life.
 
So from what I've gathered here if I'm gonna go to college I'd be better off to take on a degree not directly pertaining to aviation, and it'd be a better to get instruction at the local airport as opposed to expensive schools. A certificate is a certificate no matter if it comes from Embry-Riddle or the local airport I suppose :p. I think there is a "cheap" instructor or two in my area to get your private from, although I'm sure cheap is not always the best way to go.
 
Cheap isn't always the best, no, but I think the more important thing is quality. The instructor you learn from rubs off on you, in both the good and bad ways. I started out with an instructor in Chino CA that didn't gel with me, nor did he have patience for my learning experience. He was a younger CFI and didn't feel like he had the experience I wanted; I didn't feel safe with how he was instructing and it was me who noticed the flaps not working on a run-up while he kicked back and used his phone on one of my first flights. Otherwise we would've had a slight problem.

The important thing to remember (for me, at least) is picking a CFI or school is like buying any other product; be picky. It's your money, spend it where you want and where you will get the best bang for the buck. Don't be afraid to switch instructors if one doesn't perform as advertised. Ask people around the field about the school. Take a test flight or two with them and get an opinion.

ERAU might have good instructors, but they are probably more expensive than regular flight schools because they are attached to an expensive university. Again, I can't say for sure because I've never been with one or in their flight programs at the main campus, so take it with a pinch of salt.
 
EdLarkin said:
Quincy, I'm going to be the horse's posterior here.

Go to college and study something like computer science that gets you into a very well paying IT career. You can then buy a nice airplane.

Join Civil Air Patrol for a cheap private ticket. You'll have to put up with some military BS, but the ticket's cheap.
Click to expand...

I'm in IT, have been my whole working life. If anyone's thinking of getting into IT, you'll need to have an aptitude for this sort of thing and derive some satisfaction from it or you'll never make it. When employers say they can't find IT help, what they mean is that they can't find IT help that can work quickly, can assist in filling out the details that senior management won't provide, and can meet deadlines on a regular basis. The work can be frustrating and difficult at times, and tedious at others. A number of years ago, I read a study that found that the most effective working programmer produced 25 times the output of the least effective programmer. So, everyone's looking for the big hitters and trying to get rid of the lesser folks.

Like any other job, there are pluses and minuses. In every job I've ever worked, there are no perks of any kind. I know someone who works for an airline and he gets free standby travel, but he's the only one I know of. if you're working for a consultant group, you may be traveling weekly, but most of us stay home and rarely if ever travel. The pay is better than average, but jobs are subject to being outsourced, and there is significant age discrimination. From what I can tell, a senior IT person tops out at $100,000 to $120,000 depending on where the job is and what it entails.

I suppose if you're single, at a senior level, and live cheaply other than the airplane expenses, you could support a "nice airplane", but if you have a family, you'll have no airplane at all unless your wife works a professional job and your children aren't in day care or college. So it's not like being a surgeon or a partner in a law firm, or for that matter, a dentist, who average $180,000 per year working four days a week.
 
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I'm excited, I think I'll just try and save my money up and see if that gets me anywhere first.
 
Quincy,

Have you considered military aviation? If the interest is there, you can get your flight training paid for and fly some of the hottest machines out there.

It isn't as carefree as flying purely for recreation, but it is very rewarding.

Assuming you are in good health and relatively motivated, it may be an option and you're in exactly the age bracket to consider it.

You can PM me if you have specific questions, but I figured I'd throw the option out since nobody else has.
 
RhinoDrvr said:
Quincy,

Have you considered military aviation? If the interest is there, you can get your flight training paid for and fly some of the hottest machines out there.

It isn't as carefree as flying purely for recreation, but it is very rewarding.

Assuming you are in good health and relatively motivated, it may be an option and you're in exactly the age bracket to consider it.

You can PM me if you have specific questions, but I figured I'd throw the option out since nobody else has.
Click to expand...

Pretty tough to get a flying commission right now. From what I hear, for USAF, Marines, and Navy, you'll need a college degree with top grades and a good score on the aptitude test. I think the Army is still accepting HS grads into its warrant officer program but the competition is tough, especially now that the headcount is being reduced among all the services.
 
FormerHangie said:
Pretty tough to get a flying commission right now. From what I hear, for USAF, Marines, and Navy, you'll need a college degree with top grades and a good score on the aptitude test. I think the Army is still accepting HS grads into its warrant officer program but the competition is tough, especially now that the headcount is being reduced among all the services.
Click to expand...

Just like any other job, competition exists to get selected. However, you'll compete to get an airline or Part 135 job as well. The trade-off is that the things that will make you competitive for a military aviation contract (good grades, college degree, leadership experience) will also make you competitive for many other jobs outside aviation. Pilot mills (ERAU, UND, ATP) are risky because you fork out $$$ for an extremely specialized skillset, IMHO.

If you:
1. Are under 27 years of age.
2. Go to college
3. Get decent grades (especially as an engineer)
4. Get involved in your community/leadership roles
5. Get in/Stay in shape

Then you've got just as good a shot at an air contract as anyone else out there. Lots of folks turn themselves away before they give Uncle Sam the chance to. Remember, you've got to ask the question...

Just posting it as an option. There are many more direct ways to get involved in commercial flying if the OP isn't interested in military aviation. I just wanted to mention it, since nobody else had yet.
 
Quincy welcome to the zoo......I'll chime in with my .02 and tell you to go to the nearest airport and buy an intro ride. You haven't mentioned flying anywhere yet, and you will either love it or hate it after a couple intro rides where you get the feel of aviating. If you go up and turn green and don't like the bumps all the advice in the world won't matter. My son did an intro ride when he was about your age, and hated the first trip out. He thought he flew terribly the few minutes he had the stick. I said you can't tell anything on that first run so he did a second intro flight and is now a Captain on the Boeing 737..........go find out if you like it first, you need the fire in the belly to make it in flying............good luck...............
 
At nineteen, perhaps if your in good health, you might consider joining the military? If you qualify for military flight training, even better, especially if you make it through and graduate. However, even without military flight training, most all large military bases have flying clubs and offer lessons at considerably reduced costs. If that does not happen, you will have your GI bill to pay your way through civilian flying academies when you get discharged.

Flying is more about following rules, regulations, procedures, and nit picking the details than actually flying an airplane, which does take some time to learn in itself, but is not all that tough to master.

You might consider just going through a ground school for a couple of hundred dollars or less, then taking your written examination along with getting your medical and student certificate for a start. All of that will run less than $500.00.

From there on out, it is finding ways to finagle lessons and airtime.

You have a lot of options, but as mentioned above, you can't be shy, talk to people.

-John
 
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