Becoming a pilot in today’s industry

L

Logan Hardee

Pre-Flight
Joined
Feb 18, 2020
Messages
83
Display Name
Display name:
Jaxpilot02
Hey all, posted here a couple times pre Covid and now I’m starting to worry if dropping nearly 100k for flight training/school is a good idea.
I have two questions-
What is the likely hood of the pilot shortage coming back? At this point in time, I’m aiming more towards corporate flying than airlines. However, I’m afraid if pilots get laid off the market will be flooded with high hour pilots and there will be no jobs for the new guys. Curious to here you’re thoughts/opinions on that?
My second question ties in with the corporate flying. I’m considering getting my A&P, is it worth it? I’m a line tech at an FBO and a lot of 135 pilots tell me their respective companies like to hire pilots that have their a&p so they can do the flying + maintenance. Given it is 3 years of school so definitely something I couldn’t just knock out in a couple months.
If you got this far down, thanks! I know they are loaded questions but I appreciate any information/advice you guys have.
 
I cannot offer very valuable comments on your questions, but I want to point out that you cannot train to become a pilot in today's economy, just like you cannot train to become a doctor in today's economy, because the the time required to complete the training means that you are preparing for a future. Unfortunately, that means you have to try to predict the future.

Having said that, the question becomes how will aviation look in 500, 1000, or 1500 hours (which will likely take years to accrue).

@easik made a video with Kit Darby that discussing the projected trends in pilot hiring over the next few years, and while I will point out that any information coming from an existing industry tends to have a bias for maintaining the status quo (ask Blockbuster about their chance to buy Netflix), the data they present is very valuable if you are considering this path.
 
Don't bother with your a&p. I don't know one pilot that has their a&p that worked on the airplane they flew. Probably would help if you wanted to be a bush pilot.

And as I've said 100 times, today's job market is going to be far different than the one 2-3 years from now. A few months ago you were asking if you could get hired at SWA with 1500 hours and if you could be based at MCO if you got hired at JetBlue. That has all changed. It will probably change again. If you want to be a pilot, be a pilot. You'll have to move at some point in your career, and you'll probably be laid off at some point in your career. You're suffering from analysis paralysis. Whatever "plan" you come up with now will change 100 times before you're marketable.
 
MarkH said:
I cannot offer very valuable comments on your questions, but I want to point out that you cannot train to become a pilot in today's economy, just like you cannot train to become a doctor in today's economy, because the the time required to complete the training means that you are preparing for a future. Unfortunately, that means you have to try to predict the future.

Having said that, the question becomes how will aviation look in 500, 1000, or 1500 hours (which will likely take years to accrue).

@easik made a video with Kit Darby that discussing the projected trends in pilot hiring over the next few years, and while I will point out that any information coming from an existing industry tends to have a bias for maintaining the status quo (ask Blockbuster about their chance to buy Netflix), the data they present is very valuable if you are considering this path.
Click to expand...
Good point. Can’t predict the future. I did see airline traffic is starting to spike and IF a vaccine comes by the end of the year that may turn the tide. But like you said, who knows.
 
Groundpounder said:
Don't bother with your a&p. I don't know one pilot that has their a&p that worked on the airplane they flew. Probably would help if you wanted to be a bush pilot.

And as I've said 100 times, today's job market is going to be far different than the one 2-3 years from now. A few months ago you were asking if you could get hired at SWA with 1500 hours and if you could be based at MCO if you got hired at JetBlue. That has all changed. It will probably change again. If you want to be a pilot, be a pilot. You'll have to move at some point in your career, and you'll probably be laid off at some point in your career. You're suffering from analysis paralysis. Whatever "plan" you come up with now will change 100 times before you're marketable.
Click to expand...
Understandable, just would like to have as much knowledge and somewhat know what to expect.
 
Logan Hardee said:
Understandable, just would like to have as much knowledge and somewhat know what to expect.
Click to expand...

Expect the unexpected. If someone told me in February that every single airline would be furloughing 20% of their pilots in the fall, I would have thought they were insane. Well, here we are.

Semper Gumby. Be flexible.
 
Groundpounder said:
Don't bother with your a&p. I don't know one pilot that has their a&p that worked on the airplane they flew. Probably would help if you wanted to be a bush pilot.

And as I've said 100 times, today's job market is going to be far different than the one 2-3 years from now. A few months ago you were asking if you could get hired at SWA with 1500 hours and if you could be based at MCO if you got hired at JetBlue. That has all changed. It will probably change again. If you want to be a pilot, be a pilot. You'll have to move at some point in your career, and you'll probably be laid off at some point in your career. You're suffering from analysis paralysis. Whatever "plan" you come up with now will change 100 times before you're marketable.
Click to expand...


Exactly.

And for that very reason, you need options and flexibility and alternate plans. Learn a marketable skill beyond aviation. STEM or business degrees can keep you fed in a downturn. So can hair styling, bar tending, carpentry, or welding. Have a backup.
 
Groundpounder said:
Expect the unexpected. If someone told me in February that every single airline would be furloughing 20% of their pilots in the fall, I would have thought they were insane. Well, here we are.

Semper Gumby. Be flexible.
Click to expand...
Hopefully it doesn’t come to that
 
Half Fast said:
Exactly.

And for that very reason, you need options and flexibility and alternate plans. Learn a marketable skill beyond aviation. STEM or business degrees can keep you fed in a downturn. So can hair styling, bar tending, carpentry, or welding. Have a backup.
Click to expand...
Also considering getting a Bachelors in aviation management. If I lost my medical or another big loss happened I could still work in the industry somewhere.
 
Logan Hardee said:
Also considering getting a Bachelors in aviation management. If I lost my medical or another big loss happened I could still work in the industry somewhere.
Click to expand...


If aviation suffers a downturn, aviation managers won’t be needed, either. Think about a backup plan in a different industry.
 
Logan Hardee said:
Also considering getting a Bachelors in aviation management. If I lost my medical or another big loss happened I could still work in the industry somewhere.
Click to expand...

Get it in something non-aviation. It will be cheaper and possibly more useful. I got my BS in business management taking night classes and working line service full time. I had zero student loan debt when I graduated.
 
OP, you're making the mistake of ascribing an outlier condition to the economic resets in the profession. They're not. They're endemic to it. If you're looking for a reset-devoid career, grey collar work like airplane pyleting is not a compatible occupational pursuit. Post #3 pretty much hit the highlights. Not much more to add.

I'd say, if you can't handle the swings endemic to the occupation (and not just the single you, but the head of household you, or the father of small children you, if that's a life condition of your planned/unplanned future), stay out of the pylet jobs kitchen. For the rest, read my sig line. Hell, go ask the guy I quote for that matter, if you want to shoot the messenger.

To be frank, the very premise of your post #1 question makes you prime pork cycle fodder imo. Caveat emptor.

Logan Hardee said:
Hopefully it doesn’t come to that
Click to expand...

....Hope's not a plan bud.

Logan Hardee said:
Also considering getting a Bachelors in aviation management. If I lost my medical or another big loss happened I could still work in the industry somewhere.
Click to expand...

The good news is you don't need an aviation flavor management degree to work in aviation. Just get a regular management degree. You can work in any management capacity and still go fly airplanes for recreation on your off time. I've also found that the cathartic value of working next to airplanes but not flying them, a very specious proposition. At least that was my experience with the canard of the "backup aerospace career". TETO.
 
There was never a pilot shortage. There was a temporary demand for pilots that will probably come back relatively quickly and last for a few more years until the next time the universe finds the pause button.

The first day of heavier than air powered flight there was one airplane with one seat and two pilots. The ratio hasn’t changed all that much in the last 100 or so years.
 
You should go on airlinepilotforums.com. This is a typical question that gets asked there. But since you’re here I’ll add my 2 cents:
Aviation industry: it is and always will be cyclical. The airlines have a ton of pilots retiring over the next few years and COVID will end at some point. If you started training now you may be just fine.

Corporate: Lots of rich people who flew business and first class are now getting into private/135 flying, because they don’t have to deal with other people in this pandemic. Yes, airline pilots that have been furloughed are knocking on the 135 doors, but it really is different than what they are used to at the airlines. Just because one may have 10k hours in the front of a 737 doesn’t mean he’ll make a good G550 pilot/butler/fixer for rich clients. It will rebound faster than airlines. It already is.

A&P: Only get it if you truly enjoy wrenching. But if you do, it does help. At minimum, it doesn’t hurt. The bigger jets- Gulfstream/Falcon/Global you won’t be wrenching and flying. By and large, they want either a pilot, or a mechanic. Those I know that do have A&Ps really only fly. On the smaller scale- Tprops, small jets, it will be more useful because an owner, say, a CEO of a small company with a PC-12, could use a pilot/A&P to manage the aircraft and do routine maintenance. Of course there is a caveat to all this. If you enjoy wrenching, willing to go the extra mile, you certainly be a pilot/mechanic guru on a particular airframe. For instance you can be a pilot, get typed in say, a Citation, and then if you had your A&P put yourself through the airframe maintenance training. Then you can market yourself as a one stop specialist in Citation management/operations.

An A&P is actually a broad based skill set that can be transferred to a lot different industries like trains, marine, race cars. I have my a&p and i spent years building spacecraft(satellites). But of course, if you have no real interest in wrenching, DON’T DO IT.

Bottom line- the industry will bounce back, but it will tank again, like always. If you want to do it, then do it. If you’re particularly motivated and creative, you can do well. Won’t be easy, but if there is a will, there is a way. That’s all the cliches for now.
 
Geosync said:
You should go on airlinepilotforums.com. This is a typical question that gets asked there. But since you’re here I’ll add my 2 cents:
Aviation industry: it is and always will be cyclical. The airlines have a ton of pilots retiring over the next few years and COVID will end at some point. If you started training now you may be just fine.

Corporate: Lots of rich people who flew business and first class are now getting into private/135 flying, because they don’t have to deal with other people in this pandemic. Yes, airline pilots that have been furloughed are knocking on the 135 doors, but it really is different than what they are used to at the airlines. Just because one may have 10k hours in the front of a 737 doesn’t mean he’ll make a good G550 pilot/butler/fixer for rich clients. It will rebound faster than airlines. It already is.

A&P: Only get it if you truly enjoy wrenching. But if you do, it does help. At minimum, it doesn’t hurt. The bigger jets- Gulfstream/Falcon/Global you won’t be wrenching and flying. By and large, they want either a pilot, or a mechanic. Those I know that do have A&Ps really only fly. On the smaller scale- Tprops, small jets, it will be more useful because an owner, say, a CEO of a small company with a PC-12, could use a pilot/A&P to manage the aircraft and do routine maintenance. Of course there is a caveat to all this. If you enjoy wrenching, willing to go the extra mile, you certainly be a pilot/mechanic guru on a particular airframe. For instance you can be a pilot, get typed in say, a Citation, and then if you had your A&P put yourself through the airframe maintenance training. Then you can market yourself as a one stop specialist in Citation management/operations.

An A&P is actually a broad based skill set that can be transferred to a lot different industries like trains, marine, race cars. I have my a&p and i spent years building spacecraft(satellites). But of course, if you have no real interest in wrenching, DON’T DO IT.

Bottom line- the industry will bounce back, but it will tank again, like always. If you want to do it, then do it. If you’re particularly motivated and creative, you can do well. Won’t be easy, but if there is a will, there is a way. That’s all the cliches for now.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your advice and not being salty towards to industry like some. My passion of flying outweighs the risks. I used to run a small custom Furniture business so I’m pretty Kinesthetic but other than the basic car maintenance, I’ve never had the opportunity to learn for about the mechanical world.
 
Groundpounder said:
Get it in something non-aviation. It will be cheaper and possibly more useful. I got my BS in business management taking night classes and working line service full time. I had zero student loan debt when I graduated.
Click to expand...
I’ll look into that. Thanks much
 
Logan Hardee said:
Thank you for your advice and not being salty towards to industry like some. My passion of flying outweighs the risks. I used to run a small custom Furniture business so I’m pretty Kinesthetic but other than the basic car maintenance, I’ve never had the opportunity to learn for about the mechanical world.
Click to expand...
You either want to do this or you don’t. There is no way to know if it’s the right time or not. In my opinion it’s never the right time to drop 100k on a pilot job. Lots of people do it and it works for some.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
You either want to do this or you don’t. There is no way to know if it’s the right time or not. In my opinion it’s never the right time to drop 100k on a pilot job. Lots of people do it and it works for some.
Click to expand...
This is true
 
Half Fast said:
Alternative solution - marry money.
Click to expand...

Logan Hardee said:
I like to earn and work hard for what I have lol
Click to expand...

Then marry a pilot! You will still have to earn and work hard (speaking from experience). But your aviation insurance will be hella cheap :)

As @Half Fast said earlier - diversify. I don't see an aviation management degree being a realistic backup to being a pilot. FBOs are closing and you can bet companies like Delta aren't keeping all their middle management around when they are bleeding cash - and those managers are protected by a union.

Groundpounder said:
Expect the unexpected. If someone told me in February that every single airline would be furloughing 20% of their pilots in the fall, I would have thought they were insane. Well, here we are.

Semper Gumby. Be flexible.
Click to expand...
Wow, I figured it would be way higher than that. I was reading the other forums that Delta alone will let go of 7,000 by September 30th when the bail out agreements expire...and that is after mandatory retirements are accounted for. That seems like more than 20%. American is even bigger and Southwest is smaller. But lets say for arguments sake there are 15,000 pilots furloughed or laid off or whatever come October 1st. That after effects of that will be affecting @Logan Hardee for several years.

Focus on a great backup - engineer, biomed, plumber, electrician, nursing, etc. You'll make good money and then fly on the side. Slow things down a bit and get in all your hours and ratings over the next 5yrs. I know you don't want to hear that. But you yourself are considering spending $100k on a career that has been seriously up-ended. Your urgency is where you will make big financial mistakes that are hard to dig out of.

A great guy at our airport is just coming up on his 2yr mark. He bought an older but low motor time Cessna 172. Works his ass off over the summers in construction and saves up cash. Then flies during the winter and lots and lots and lots of night in the summer. It don't think he has ever flown less than 10hrs a week except some winter crud weeks. He has knocked out his PPL, IR, Commerical, HP, Complex, Tail, Comm-Multi. He has just over 800hrs and I think over 350hrs of night flight!!! At this rate he should have his 1500 in a bit less than 2yrs from now. The best part, when the economy tanked he still had his construction job. My wife did the same thing many years either. Neither are CFI. Neither has/had any loans or aviation debt either. And most definitely, neither will have spent $100K on aviation.
 
Sinistar said:
Then marry a pilot! You will still have to earn and work hard (speaking from experience). But your aviation insurance will be hella cheap :)

As @Half Fast said earlier - diversify. I don't see an aviation management degree being a realistic backup to being a pilot. FBOs are closing and you can bet companies like Delta aren't keeping all their middle management around when they are bleeding cash - and those managers are protected by a union.

Wow, I figured it would be way higher than that. I was reading the other forums that Delta alone will let go of 7,000 by September 30th when the bail out agreements expire...and that is after mandatory retirements are accounted for. That seems like more than 20%. American is even bigger and Southwest is smaller. But lets say for arguments sake there are 15,000 pilots furloughed or laid off or whatever come October 1st. That after effects of that will be affecting @Logan Hardee for several years.

Focus on a great backup - engineer, biomed, plumber, electrician, nursing, etc. You'll make good money and then fly on the side. Slow things down a bit and get in all your hours and ratings over the next 5yrs. I know you don't want to hear that. But you yourself are considering spending $100k on a career that has been seriously up-ended. Your urgency is where you will make big financial mistakes that are hard to dig out of.

A great guy at our airport is just coming up on his 2yr mark. He bought an older but low motor time Cessna 172. Works his ass off over the summers in construction and saves up cash. Then flies during the winter and lots and lots and lots of night in the summer. It don't think he has ever flown less than 10hrs a week except some winter crud weeks. He has knocked out his PPL, IR, Commerical, HP, Complex, Tail, Comm-Multi. He has just over 800hrs and I think over 350hrs of night flight!!! At this rate he should have his 1500 in a bit less than 2yrs from now. The best part, when the economy tanked he still had his construction job. My wife did the same thing many years either. Neither are CFI. Neither has/had any loans or aviation debt either. And most definitely, neither will have spent $100K on aviation.
Click to expand...
I don’t think the cuts will be that deep. At least I hope not lol
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I don’t think the cuts will be that deep. At least I hope not lol
Click to expand...

That's the problem with the stupid low signal to noise ratio on APC - it's pretty easy to end up with the wrong impression if you don't know how to properly sift through all the BS!
 
Half Fast said:
And for that very reason, you need options and flexibility and alternate plans. Learn a marketable skill beyond aviation. STEM or business degrees can keep you fed in a downturn. So can hair styling, bar tending, carpentry, or welding. Have a backup.
Click to expand...

I agree, although one of the issues I've had with the 'backup degree' advice is that folks underestimate how difficult it is to leverage the degree into a meaningful job when you've been out of the workplace for such a long time. Doesn't make it bad advice, but I think it's also important to keep the skills up to date. My background is software development, and while I've been regularly writing code during the 17 years I've been flying for a living, it's been for fun and hasn't exactly kept up with the times. If something were to happen to my job tomorrow, my two STEM degrees wouldn't be worth the paper they're printed on.

I'm trying to fix that right now, but I thought I'd throw that out there for the OP. Don't be like me!
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I don’t think the cuts will be that deep. At least I hope not lol
Click to expand...

I don't think there will be an accurate number until September 29th. Far too many variables to predict right now. But I think my 20% estimate will be close, averaged throughout the industry.

I was trying hard to get to the airlines and out of corporate about two years ago. It didn't pan out, and I stumbled onto a top tier corporate job. I dodged a bullet....but I have a bunch of friends that are squarely in the crosshairs of Oct 1st.
 
Sinistar said:
Then marry a pilot! You will still have to earn and work hard (speaking from experience). But your aviation insurance will be hella cheap :)

As @Half Fast said earlier - diversify. I don't see an aviation management degree being a realistic backup to being a pilot. FBOs are closing and you can bet companies like Delta aren't keeping all their middle management around when they are bleeding cash - and those managers are protected by a union.

Wow, I figured it would be way higher than that. I was reading the other forums that Delta alone will let go of 7,000 by September 30th when the bail out agreements expire...and that is after mandatory retirements are accounted for. That seems like more than 20%. American is even bigger and Southwest is smaller. But lets say for arguments sake there are 15,000 pilots furloughed or laid off or whatever come October 1st. That after effects of that will be affecting @Logan Hardee for several years.

Focus on a great backup - engineer, biomed, plumber, electrician, nursing, etc. You'll make good money and then fly on the side. Slow things down a bit and get in all your hours and ratings over the next 5yrs. I know you don't want to hear that. But you yourself are considering spending $100k on a career that has been seriously up-ended. Your urgency is where you will make big financial mistakes that are hard to dig out of.

A great guy at our airport is just coming up on his 2yr mark. He bought an older but low motor time Cessna 172. Works his ass off over the summers in construction and saves up cash. Then flies during the winter and lots and lots and lots of night in the summer. It don't think he has ever flown less than 10hrs a week except some winter crud weeks. He has knocked out his PPL, IR, Commerical, HP, Complex, Tail, Comm-Multi. He has just over 800hrs and I think over 350hrs of night flight!!! At this rate he should have his 1500 in a bit less than 2yrs from now. The best part, when the economy tanked he still had his construction job. My wife did the same thing many years either. Neither are CFI. Neither has/had any loans or aviation debt either. And most definitely, neither will have spent $100K on aviation.
Click to expand...
Great advice. I have definitely looked into buying an older piper to build time in and then sell it (or not) in the future once I have my hours. I work at an fbo and we aren’t closing lol. We are slammed busy 5 days a week. Just Friday I fueled 18 jets before 1pm. Corporate Flying is definitely picking up.
 
Groundpounder said:
I don't think there will be an accurate number until September 29th. Far too many variables to predict right now. But I think my 20% estimate will be close, averaged throughout the industry.

I was trying hard to get to the airlines and out of corporate about two years ago. It didn't pan out, and I stumbled onto a top tier corporate job. I dodged a bullet....but I have a bunch of friends that are squarely in the crosshairs of Oct 1st.
Click to expand...
As you said time will tell. Definitely interesting and tough times.
 
kayoh190 said:
I agree, although one of the issues I've had with the 'backup degree' advice is that folks underestimate how difficult it is to leverage the degree into a meaningful job when you've been out of the workplace for such a long time. Doesn't make it bad advice, but I think it's also important to keep the skills up to date. My background is software development, and while I've been regularly writing code during the 17 years I've been flying for a living, it's been for fun and hasn't exactly kept up with the times. If something were to happen to my job tomorrow, my two STEM degrees wouldn't be worth the paper they're printed on.

I'm trying to fix that right now, but I thought I'd throw that out there for the OP. Don't be like me!
Click to expand...
Before I decided I wanted to pursue my passion of flying I was going to go into app development. Did a couple courses and learned the basics. Decided it wasn’t for me and I could never do it full time haha
 
Geosync said:
You should go on airlinepilotforums.com. This is a typical question that gets asked there. But since you’re here I’ll add my 2 cents:
Aviation industry: it is and always will be cyclical. The airlines have a ton of pilots retiring over the next few years and COVID will end at some point. If you started training now you may be just fine.

Corporate: Lots of rich people who flew business and first class are now getting into private/135 flying, because they don’t have to deal with other people in this pandemic. Yes, airline pilots that have been furloughed are knocking on the 135 doors, but it really is different than what they are used to at the airlines. Just because one may have 10k hours in the front of a 737 doesn’t mean he’ll make a good G550 pilot/butler/fixer for rich clients. It will rebound faster than airlines. It already is.

A&P: Only get it if you truly enjoy wrenching. But if you do, it does help. At minimum, it doesn’t hurt. The bigger jets- Gulfstream/Falcon/Global you won’t be wrenching and flying. By and large, they want either a pilot, or a mechanic. Those I know that do have A&Ps really only fly. On the smaller scale- Tprops, small jets, it will be more useful because an owner, say, a CEO of a small company with a PC-12, could use a pilot/A&P to manage the aircraft and do routine maintenance. Of course there is a caveat to all this. If you enjoy wrenching, willing to go the extra mile, you certainly be a pilot/mechanic guru on a particular airframe. For instance you can be a pilot, get typed in say, a Citation, and then if you had your A&P put yourself through the airframe maintenance training. Then you can market yourself as a one stop specialist in Citation management/operations.

An A&P is actually a broad based skill set that can be transferred to a lot different industries like trains, marine, race cars. I have my a&p and i spent years building spacecraft(satellites). But of course, if you have no real interest in wrenching, DON’T DO IT.

Bottom line- the industry will bounce back, but it will tank again, like always. If you want to do it, then do it. If you’re particularly motivated and creative, you can do well. Won’t be easy, but if there is a will, there is a way. That’s all the cliches for now.
Click to expand...

I like what Geosync said. When I got into Corporate flying 35 years ago the A&P could leave you stuck in the right seat, mainly turning wrenches. Probably not the case now, I had my mechanical experience documented back then and now whish I had followed through and gotten it. It would help me with my current job but not having an A&P has probably not hurt my career. Out of the 6 or so young pilots I have helped in the last 10 years only one had the A&P. He is doing well in his career in corporate. Two others are in 135 and one is laid off. One does contract corporate flying and is doing well. Two went to the airlines and one is looking at being laid off, the other fly's freight for ATI.

My family has done well in aviation. Dad was hired by Continental Airlines in the mid 50's, flew for them until the 1983 bankruptcy and resigned. He finished his career flying corporate. I have had 4 corporate jobs, 2 over 12 years each. Neither one of us was laid off, lucky.

Where are you located?
 
Logan Hardee said:
I’m considering getting my A&P, is it worth it? I’m a line tech at an FBO and a lot of 135 pilots tell me their respective companies like to hire pilots that have their a&p so they can do the flying + maintenance.
Click to expand...

Think about that.

There's a reason some employers would love to hire pilots/mechanics. They only have pay one employee. Regardless of FAA regs and duty times and common sense, the type of employers who are looking to hire pilots/mechanics, WILL do everything possible to take as much advantage of you as possible, and you'll be tired, agitated, hungry, and only get one measly pay check. It's great benefit to the company, and no benefit to you.

Also, everyone I know who is a pilot/mechanic, who took a job as a mechanic being promised to also do some flying, almost never gets to fly. None of them are happy with the way it worked out. Someone here may know someone with a different story, but I don't, and I"m sure it's rare.

It's fine to have both your A&P and be a pilot, but I would NEVER tell any employer in a job interview where I was looking for a job as a pilot, that I was also an A&P. I've been around too long to see how that goes. Decide what you want to do and either work as a pilot, or a mechanic, but don't present yourself as both.
 
Last edited:
kayoh190 said:
That's the problem with the stupid low signal to noise ratio on APC - it's pretty easy to end up with the wrong impression if you don't know how to properly sift through all the BS!
Click to expand...
APC has become entertainment at this point. It’s almost impossible to find good info. Not impossible but dang close.
 
If you do represent your self as a pilot/mechanic make SURE you will only be over seeing the MX being done and doing small jobs. My Dad's best friend from the Air Force got stuck in the right seat, not hand flying much, until he changed jobs. This was a long time ago, they were F-86 mechanics in the Korea War.
 
Groundpounder said:
I don't think there will be an accurate number until September 29th. Far too many variables to predict right now. But I think my 20% estimate will be close, averaged throughout the industry.

I was trying hard to get to the airlines and out of corporate about two years ago. It didn't pan out, and I stumbled onto a top tier corporate job. I dodged a bullet....but I have a bunch of friends that are squarely in the crosshairs of Oct 1st.
Click to expand...
I don’t think it will be accurate by 9/30. I would not be surprised to see management WARN a large block but not furlough all of them to make sure they can be flexible enough to respond to the market.

I don’t think anyone including management groups have any idea what is going to happen. This is uncharted territory. My company has gone from predicting 40% furloughs to now saying there might be no furloughs but still saying let’s wait and see what happens. Meanwhile I’m halfway done with an airbus type just waiting to see what does down.

Your 20% average may work out close but to be honest if it does you were lucky in guessing a number. There are so many variables at this point no one can do more than guess.
 
Half Fast said:
While the demand for airline pilots is taking a major hit right now, the demand for USAF pilots isn't.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/...force-no-progress-in-closing-pilot-shortfall/

Have you considered military?
Click to expand...

I'm afraid that's not the case. That's a Pre-Corona article. Yes, even March 4 2020 is "pre-corona" in the context of US pilot jobs. BL, we have no shortage. We're full up, in many instances we're working on immediate overmanning issues on the line due to the circle-backs.

The OP would face stiff competition right now to gain a flight slot in any of the Service Components. The civil flying hiring ops tempo tanked and people are circling back to the military, fully qualified and trained to the job they had just left a second ago.
 
"I don't know one pilot that has their a&p that worked on the airplane they flew."

There was a time when I was backup pilot to a Learjet operation...when one of the regular crew was not available I got to add to my turbine hours. That ended when the mechanic they had been using got his Lear type rating. Having the A&P might make a hiring decision easier some day.

Bob Gardner
 
Logan Hardee said:
tell me their respective companies like to hire pilots that have their a&p so they can do the flying + maintenance.
Click to expand...

SToL said:
There's a reason some employers would love to hire pilots/mechanics. They only have pay one employee. Regardless of FAA regs and duty times and common sense, the type of employers who are looking to hire pilots/mechanics, WILL do everything possible to take as much advantage of you as possible, and you'll be tired, agitated, hungry, and only get one measly pay check. It's great benefit to the company, and no benefit to you.
Click to expand...

Worth saying twice.

And there never was a pilot shortage, just a shortage of qualified pilots.
 
Plano Pilot said:
I like what Geosync said. When I got into Corporate flying 35 years ago the A&P could leave you stuck in the right seat, mainly turning wrenches. Probably not the case now, I had my mechanical experience documented back then and now whish I had followed through and gotten it. It would help me with my current job but not having an A&P has probably not hurt my career. Out of the 6 or so young pilots I have helped in the last 10 years only one had the A&P. He is doing well in his career in corporate. Two others are in 135 and one is laid off. One does contract corporate flying and is doing well. Two went to the airlines and one is looking at being laid off, the other fly's freight for ATI.

My family has done well in aviation. Dad was hired by Continental Airlines in the mid 50's, flew for them until the 1983 bankruptcy and resigned. He finished his career flying corporate. I have had 4 corporate jobs, 2 over 12 years each. Neither one of us was laid off, lucky.

Where are you located?
Click to expand...
Great info. Thanks! I’m in Jacksonville Florida
 
SToL said:
Think about that.

There's a reason some employers would love to hire pilots/mechanics. They only have pay one employee. Regardless of FAA regs and duty times and common sense, the type of employers who are looking to hire pilots/mechanics, WILL do everything possible to take as much advantage of you as possible, and you'll be tired, agitated, hungry, and only get one measly pay check. It's great benefit to the company, and no benefit to you.

Also, everyone I know who is a pilot/mechanic, who took a job as a mechanic being promised to also do some flying, almost never gets to fly. None of them are happy with the way it worked out. Someone here may know someone with a different story, but I don't, and I"m sure it's rare.

It's fine to have both your A&P and be a pilot, but I would NEVER tell any employer in a job interview where I was looking for a job as a pilot, that I was also an A&P. I've been around too long to see how that goes. Decide what you want to do and either work as a pilot, or a mechanic, but don't present yourself as both.
Click to expand...
You make a great point. Thanks!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top