Basic Med as a hedge

[Let'sgoflying!]

I have heard of pilots getting their II or III then also getting BasicMed.
Does that make any sense?
I presume the plan is to have BM in the back pocket in case of a medical event in which they could not then return to the AME (without being deferred)?
Maybe you can get BM later and not worry about getting it in advance.

 

[SCCutler]

Certainly an option, but (of course) if the pilot is aware of a disabling or disqualifying condition after issuance of the BasicMed, he or she would be obligated to suspend flying until properly addressed.

Honor system.

 

[AggieMike88]

Forget the hedge

We demand a shrubbery!

Ni!!!

 

[Morgan3820]

I have heard of pilots getting their II or III then also getting BasicMed.
Does that make any sense?
I presume the plan is to have BM in the back pocket in case of a medical event in which they could not then return to the AME (without being deferred)?
Maybe you can get BM later and not worry about getting it in advance.

Interesting thought. I thought, but don’t know why, that it was either/or. That you could not have both. I look forward to what the experts say.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

I have heard of pilots getting their II or III then also getting BasicMed.
Does that make any sense?
I presume the plan is to have BM in the back pocket in case of a medical event in which they could not then return to the AME (without being deferred)?
Maybe you can get BM later and not worry about getting it in advance.

I thought once you apply for and were granted BM, that's what you have, not your prior medical.

 

[AggieMike88]

Paging @Brad Z

 

[gkainz]

According to this source, you can hold both BasicMed and a valid 3rd class medical

https://generalaviationnews.com/2019/02/14/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-basicmed/

3. It’s OK to still want a third class medical — and you can have a third class medical and BasicMed at the same time.

Many pilots still want a third class medical and it is required if your flying is beyond the requirements for BasicMed.

“You’re supposed to declare whether you are flying under BasicMed or a third class medical,” says Brent Blue, an AME who spoke to a standing room only crowd at Oshkosh. “Although I’m not sure who you are supposed to declare that to.”

 

[Brad W]

I'm not seeing the point of it....
unless your previous medical was prior to the cut-off...in which case you'd have to go in for a medical cert one time. Then after that there would be no reason to get basic med till your medical cert ran out...and no reason to get another medical unless you were going to do something outside the scope of basic med....
but maybe I'm missing something....

 

[mcmanigle]

I've often thought about this from another direction -- if you had a child who wasn't a pilot but might be interested in it some day, would you take them to get a class 3 medical at age 16 so they would be Basic Med eligible forever after?

 

[steingar]

I would get Basic Med if I had a condition that would require a lot of hoops from the FAA. For example, I used to get a lot of grief for my gout. Letters from my doctor, tests, all sorts of things. I switched AME's, so now it isn't so bad. But had that continued I would have just gone to Basic Med. Only reason I haven't is I have this forlorn dream to fly myself to Canada.

 

[Brad Z]

I have heard of pilots getting their II or III then also getting BasicMed.
Does that make any sense?
I presume the plan is to have BM in the back pocket in case of a medical event in which they could not then return to the AME (without being deferred)?
Maybe you can get BM later and not worry about getting it in advance.

There is nothing to prevent an AME from conducting a BasicMed comprehensive medical examination. As such, an airman could ask the AME to conduct the exam concurrently with the part 67 medical exam and sign of the CMEC following the MedXpress paperwork for the certificate. The AME would be signing the CMEC as a state-licensed physician, not as an AME on behalf of the FAA. The benefit of doing so would be to switch to BasicMed after the medical expires without taking another exam.

There's not a ton of benefit of being BasicMed qualified and holding a medical certificate. The only real one I can think of is you could still go flying if you left your medical certificate at home, but had your pilot certificate and driver's license on your person.

As long as you hold a valid, un-expired, medical certificate, the FAA has the ability to revoke the certificate or withdraw the special issuance if one was issued. If that happens, you no longer have the ability to fly under BasicMed.

 

[Brad Z]

I've often thought about this from another direction -- if you had a child who wasn't a pilot but might be interested in it some day, would you take them to get a class 3 medical at age 16 so they would be Basic Med eligible forever after?

Why wait until 16? There's technically no age limit, although practically speaking I don't think an AME will sign off a four year old.

 

[Brad W]

I've often thought about this from another direction -- if you had a child who wasn't a pilot but might be interested in it some day, would you take them to get a class 3 medical at age 16 so they would be Basic Med eligible forever after?

bam! that my friend is an interesting idea to consider

 

[NoHeat]

I've often thought about this from another direction -- if you had a child who wasn't a pilot but might be interested in it some day, would you take them to get a class 3 medical at age 16 so they would be Basic Med eligible forever after?

Take them at age 5, before they are diagnosed with ADHD or whatever.

I'm assuming a Class 3 can be issued to anybody old enough to sign their name

 

[mcmanigle]

Why wait until 16? There's technically no age limit, although practically speaking I don't think an AME will sign off a four year old.

True, the AME guide does specifically say that there is no age requirement for a medical, but the required psychiatric part evaluation of a normal AME exam, even though it doesn't require any specific questions or any of the various formal psych tests, does require:

The Examiner should make observations about the following specific elements and should note on the form any gross or notable deviations from normal:
1. Appearance (abnormal if dirty, disheveled, odoriferous, or unkempt);
2. Behavior (abnormal if uncooperative, bizarre, or inexplicable);
3. Mood (abnormal if excessively angry, sad, euphoric, or labile);
4. Communication (abnormal if incomprehensible, does not answer questions directly);
5. Memory (abnormal if unable to recall recent events); and
6. Cognition (abnormal if unable to engage in abstract thought, or if delusional or hallucinating).

It also specifically mentions inquiring into things like urinary and fecal incontinence if there is evidence for the same. So, I would say for the average case, it makes more sense to go at 16, when the AME won't consider the visit in any way "out of the ordinary," rather than take your gamble that the AME defers the 2 y/o's medical to OKC and then Basic Med is lost forever ;-)

Or you could always go the @AggieMike88 route and get a consult for the 2 y/o before giving them the MedExpress number ;-)

 

[dbahn]

I think a lot of pilots who are currently under Basic Med were also under AME issued med in the process, and nothing prevents a person from renewing each one. One reason could be as simple as procrastination, i.e. not being able to schedule with the AME and wanting to fly in the meantime. Other reasons could include uncertainty about documentation for upcoming AME visit, including knowing that a specific test (e.g. MRI) might be required for an AME issued medical. In both of those cases, the subsequent issue by an AME of an FAA medical would result in the airman being eligible for operations requiring Basic Med and AME issued, plus of course Light Sport, glider, etc.

And when the dreaded renewal of an AME issued medical comes up, with Basic Med you satisfy the requirement to stay current by re-doing a written exam.

 

[Brad Z]

I have heard of pilots getting their II or III then also getting BasicMed.
Does that make any sense?
I presume the plan is to have BM in the back pocket in case of a medical event in which they could not then return to the AME (without being deferred)?
Maybe you can get BM later and not worry about getting it in advance.

One other issue- If you have an issue later that would require an SI, if it's one of the special conditions of §68.9 you have to go back and get another medical (with an SI) regardless. If your medical condition is complicated enough that you question whether a doc would sign you off, you probably can't fly based on 61.53(b) anyway. Regular check-ups are a good thing, and with BasicMed there is no downside to doing them more often than once every four years.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I presume the plan is to have BM in the back pocket in case of an (edit) -future- medical event ?

So it sounds like this could be a usable idea. If someone above said no, I missed it.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

I thought once you apply for and were granted BM, that's what you have, not your prior medical.

I see that you can indeed have both, but the FAA can pull your medical for infringements even if you are operating under BM. Whatever the heck that means.

 

[Palmpilot]

...“You’re supposed to declare whether you are flying under BasicMed or a third class medical,” says Brent Blue, an AME who spoke to a standing room only crowd at Oshkosh. “Although I’m not sure who you are supposed to declare that to.”

Probably to any FAA inspector who is asking about your medical qualifications.

 

[dbahn]

“You’re supposed to declare whether you are flying under BasicMed or a third class medical,” says Brent Blue, an AME who spoke to a standing room only crowd at Oshkosh. “Although I’m not sure who you are supposed to declare that to.”

Yes, that's an on-site test of your awareness of the regulations. When asked, you should know the difference between "unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner" and "unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate". The huge difference between those two is the huge difference between Basic Med and AME issued medical requirements to act as PIC.

 

[Half Fast]

The basic med exam is only due every 4 years, as opposed to every 2 for class 3 for older pilots. If there’s a delay in getting an AME appt, having the basic med in hand would allow you to keep flying.

Another point, though, is that a non-AME physician might have fewer worries about signing off a BM form if you have an active class 3. I got my BM done while the ink was still wet on my class 3, at Dr. Bruce’s suggestion.

 

[jbarrass]

I just bring the form to my annual exam and my Doc fills it out when she does the other forms. So basically, I get BasicMed renewed every year. Too easy not too, and free.

 

[MIFlyer]

I've often thought about this from another direction -- if you had a child who wasn't a pilot but might be interested in it some day, would you take them to get a class 3 medical at age 16 so they would be Basic Med eligible forever after?

Yes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jeff Oslick]

Looking at this list, I'm getting concerned about getting a teenager an exam:

The Examiner should make observations about the following specific elements and should note on the form any gross or notable deviations from normal:
1. Appearance (abnormal if dirty, disheveled, odoriferous, or unkempt);

Better take them on the one day of the week they showered.

2. Behavior (abnormal if uncooperative, bizarre, or inexplicable);

A teenager. Seriously? I guess it's explicable, they're a teenager.

3. Mood (abnormal if excessively angry, sad, euphoric, or labile);

Feed them well before you go, you might stand a chance.

4. Communication (abnormal if incomprehensible, does not answer questions directly);

See response to #2, above.

5. Memory (abnormal if unable to recall recent events); and

Should be good, just don't ask about their homework.

6. Cognition (abnormal if unable to engage in abstract thought, or if delusional or hallucinating).

A little "hey, snap out of it" right before you go into the exam room should hold them for 20 minutes.

 

[Palmpilot]

Where is that list from?

 

[mcmanigle]

Where is that list from?

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/

If you want the whole thing, it’s the second option under “resources”.

 

[WDD]

I've often thought about this from another direction -- if you had a child who wasn't a pilot but might be interested in it some day, would you take them to get a class 3 medical at age 16 so they would be Basic Med eligible forever after?

I guess you can go younger. But if the forms are signed with a Crayon it might trip things up a bit.

Here is a Q&A from the FAA suggesting that you can do it all on BASIC Med. I never would have thought this was possible BTW.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med/media/basicmed_faq.pdf

Pilots
Q17: Do student pilots need to hold a medical certificate when they go for their private pilot checkride?

A: Individuals who are new to aviation will need to get one medical certificate if they want to fly under BasicMed. After that, they can fly under BasicMed forever, as long as they fly a BasicMed-compliant aircraft and never fly for compensation or hire. Most student pilots will still hold their first medical certificate when they apply for their private pilot certificate.

 

[Palmpilot]

...(Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I can't find where Basic Med is allowed for a student.)

I think I found it:

[61.89](d) The holder of a student pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft without holding a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter provided the student pilot holds a valid U.S. driver's license, meets the requirements of §61.23(c)(3), and the operation is conducted consistent with the requirements of paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section and the conditions of §61.113(i). Where the requirements of paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section conflict with §61.113(i), a student pilot must comply with paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section.
​

(61.23(c)(3) is BasicMed.)

 

[azure]

I guess you can go younger. But if the forms are signed with a Crayon it might trip things up a bit.

Here is a Q&A from the FAA suggesting that you can do it all on BASIC Med. I never would have thought this was possible BTW.

Not sure what you mean by "do it all on Basic Med". The FAQ you quote, and 61.23(c)(3)(i)(B) both say that a pilot operating under Basic Med must have once held a valid Part 67 medical certificate (after July 14, 2006). And while it's possible to let that first medical expire before the checkride, and then take the checkride under Basic Med, I suspect that will always be pretty uncommon, unless someone takes a long hiatus from flying while still a student pilot, and then takes it up again much later.

(I guess, reading the rest of the thread now, you might have meant they could go for their one-time 3rd class at some ridiculously young age, and then do all their solo training and the checkride a decade or more later under Basic Med. If so, disregard.)

 

[Kenny Phillips]

I think I found it:

[61.89](d) The holder of a student pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft without holding a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter provided the student pilot holds a valid U.S. driver's license, meets the requirements of §61.23(c)(3), and the operation is conducted consistent with the requirements of paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section and the conditions of §61.113(i). Where the requirements of paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section conflict with §61.113(i), a student pilot must comply with paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section.
​

(61.23(c)(3) is BasicMed.)

Note that apparently the student is not required to be enrolled in BasicMed, but merely meets the requirements thereof, one of which is having held a medical certificate since July 14, 2006.

 

[Half Fast]

Not sure what you mean by "do it all on Basic Med". The FAQ you quote, and 61.23(c)(3)(i)(B) both say that a pilot operating under Basic Med must have once held a valid Part 67 medical certificate (after July 14, 2006). And while it's possible to let that first medical expire before the checkride, and then take the checkride under Basic Med, I suspect that will always be pretty uncommon, unless someone takes a long hiatus from flying while still a student pilot, and then takes it up again much later.

(I guess, reading the rest of the thread now, you might have meant they could go for their one-time 3rd class at some ridiculously young age, and then do all their solo training and the checkride a decade or more later under Basic Med. If so, disregard.)

It happens. I took my PP checkride under Basic Med.

I was already a SP with no medical. Did my class 3 exam in May 2018 and finally got it issued with an SI in Sep that would expire in May 2019. Immediately did Basic Med before the 3rd class ink was dry.

Started PP work in Dec, got delayed for a kidney stone, finished up and was signed off in March 2019.

No DPE available until May. Completed the oral but high winds prevented the air work. DPE not available again until June, by which time the 3rd class had expired so I completed under Basic.

 

[Snowmass]

It took the FAA 14 months to finally decide on giving me a SI for my 3rd class so now the FAA wants me to repeat all the tests in 3 months because they start counting the two years for 3rd class when I took the original exam which was deferred to the FAA docs. This is getting to be too much since the last tests for my SI were only about a month ago. Therefore, I am going for basic ASAP.

 

[Half Fast]

It took the FAA 14 months to finally decide on giving me a SI for my 3rd class so now the FAA wants me to repeat all the tests in 3 months because they start counting the two years for 3rd class when I took the original exam which was deferred to the FAA docs. This is getting to be too much since the last tests for my SI were only about a month ago. Therefore, I am going for basic ASAP.

Yep!

My 3rd class, due to the SI duration, only lasted 9 months. The system is idiotically broken. Basic Med is the best thing to come along in many years.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

FAA faqs found:

Q6: Can I exercise BasicMed and hold a medical certificate at the same time?
A: Yes. If you are operating under BasicMed, then you must comply with the BasicMed operating limitations (e.g. flying only within the U.S. and at or less than 250 knots). When operating under BasicMed, you are not exercising the privileges of your medical certificate.
(edit; besides the 250kts, there are a few more requirements.)

 

[Stewartb]

It may serve the pilot well if he has a condition come up that would ground him under Aeromedical rules but not under BasicMed. For example, you go to the doc and find out you need a pacemaker or a list of other cardiac treatments that don’t fit the SI requirements rule for BasicMed. You’re grounded with your FAA physical and will have to play their game using their (often silly) rules to get your medical back. With BasicMed? Go flying. Decide on your terms whether an FAA medical is worth the trouble.

 

[hindsight2020]

It may serve the pilot well if he has a condition come up that would ground him under Aeromedical rules but not under BasicMed. For example, you go to the doc and find out you need a pacemaker or a list of other cardiac treatments that don’t fit the SI requirements rule for BasicMed. You’re grounded with your FAA physical and will have to play their game using their (often silly) rules to get your medical back. With BasicMed? Go flying. Decide on your terms whether an FAA medical is worth the trouble.

'Shirley' the FAA was aware of such loopholes when they allowed basicmed no? Is their answer: 'honor system'?

I'm totally with ya, frankly I find the utterance self-evident. Just like user fees would encourage airspace pirating, or 'certified' rules for factory built non-revenue use spam cans encourage mx pencil whipping on the affordability front, medical conditions you can't be above waterline with the FAA would be expected to result in sheathing under BasicMed. Or are am I speaking the quiet parts out loud again?

 

[Half Fast]

'Shirley' the FAA was aware of such loopholes when they allowed basicmed no? Is their answer: 'honor system'?

I'm totally with ya, frankly I find the utterance self-evident. Just like user fees would encourage airspace pirating, or 'certified' rules for factory built non-revenue use spam cans encourage mx pencil whipping on the affordability front, medical conditions you can't be above waterline with the FAA would be expected to result in sheathing under BasicMed. Or are am I speaking the quiet parts out loud again?

I don’t think it’s a loophole. Rather, it’s the whole point of the thing.

 

[James331]

Also didn’t congress make them do basic med?

 

[Half Fast]

Also didn’t congress make them do basic med?

Yes. And it would take another act of Congress to change or eliminate it. Not likely.