Baron

Someone recently told me that real porn is cheaper than indulging in airplane porn...
 
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Sexy airplane and they certainly fly like a dream, but for the money I think I'd rather have a 310. But like you said, nice problem to have!
 
Huh. Somehow they have reupholstered theirs to make seats 5/6 even less useful than my own not-very-useful 5/6 seats. :D

You're on the opposite end of the country else I'd invite you for a ride in a lowly D55.
 
I continue to be amazed by how cheap twins are.. so you burn 25-30 gph.. big deal. That price delta will take a longtime to make up. This plane is cheaper than what some POS Skyhawks and Skylanes are selling for. Not to mention the prices of new airplanes.

$500K for a new 182.. or $200K for this.. I'm not a Baron/Bonanza obsessive (for how impressive they look on the ramp I find the cabin narrow) but holy crap.. that $300K saved will buy A LOT of gas and oil.. not to much you can basically put overhaul reserve money in the bank basically immedaitely.
 
Tantalum said:
I continue to be amazed by how cheap twins are.. so you burn 25-30 gph.. big deal. That price delta will take a longtime to make up. This plane is cheaper than what some POS Skyhawks and Skylanes are selling for. Not to mention the prices of new airplanes.

$500K for a new 182.. or $200K for this.. I'm not a Baron/Bonanza obsessive (for how impressive they look on the ramp I find the cabin narrow) but holy crap.. that $300K saved will buy A LOT of gas and oil.. not to much you can basically put overhaul reserve money in the bank basically immedaitely.
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same here! I dont know enough about twins to talk intelligently (yet) but I am intrigued as I think of Cirrus or other Mooney's......
 
I've got time in a similar upgraded Baron. It's a beast, fuel and 4 adults and still climbing well over 1,000 feet a minute. If you are willing to burn 18 gph per side it will get 200 ktas all day long. Owner prefers to run LOP which gets about 12-14 gph per side at around 165 ktas.

The catch on twins is insurance, fuel burn, and double the OH cost for engines and props. If you are particularly unlucky you could wind up with a $100,000 annual if time catches up to you and you need both engines and props done.
 
schmookeeg said:
Huh. Somehow they have reupholstered theirs to make seats 5/6 even less useful than my own not-very-useful 5/6 seats. :D

You're on the opposite end of the country else I'd invite you for a ride in a lowly D55.
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Not too far away...but too far for a ride.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I've got time in a similar upgraded Baron. It's a beast, fuel and 4 adults and still climbing well over 1,000 feet a minute. If you are willing to burn 18 gph per side it will get 200 ktas all day long. Owner prefers to run LOP which gets about 12-14 gph per side at around 165 ktas.

The catch on twins is insurance, fuel burn, and double the OH cost for engines and props. If you are particularly unlucky you could wind up with a $100,000 annual if time catches up to you and you need both engines and props done.
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And that unluckiness is a concern.
 
Nice, how do you get in the rear seats? Climb over middle seats? Maybe for kids, not overweight adults....:rolleyes:
 
I would do this in a heartbeat, but....... twin proficiency.
 
The problem with twins is a high percentage of owners do not maintain the required degree of engine out proficiency. It requires a serious ongoing training investment.
 
eman1200 said:
they are tight
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I don't fit into either a Baron or a Bo. This week I crawled into the LF seat of a friend's A36-TC to have a good look at his new Garmin panel goodies (including a pair of GI 275s). Reconfirmed the lack of fit problem. Big time.

kayoh190 said:
Sexy airplane and they certainly fly like a dream, but for the money I think I'd rather have a 310...
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Yes, I'm still trying to figure out why anybody would put up with the cost of a twin for a Bonanza size cabin.

Jeff767 said:
The problem with twins is a high percentage of owners do not maintain the required degree of engine out proficiency. It requires a serious ongoing training investment.
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A serious, ongoing training investment is not, and should not be unique to twins.
 
AKBill said:
Nice, how do you get in the rear seats? Climb over middle seats? Maybe for kids, not overweight adults....:rolleyes:
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I had that conversation with my Mom...my Dad was going to take her and 3 other ladies to a handbell seminar in his 55. I asked Mom if she knew that somebody was going to have to crawl in through the baggage door. She replied that Dad told her it seated six.

I called across the room to my niece...”Kirsten, remember when you rode in Grandpa’s airplane to get to Great Grandma’s funeral?”
“Yes.”
“How do you get into the back seats?”
“Through that little door.”
End of trip. ;)
 
MauleSkinner said:
I had that conversation with my Mom...my Dad was going to take her and 3 other ladies to a handbell seminar in his 55. I asked Mom if she knew that somebody was going to have to crawl in through the baggage door. She replied that Dad told her it seated six.

I called across the room to my niece...”Kirsten, remember when you rode in Grandpa’s airplane to get to Great Grandma’s funeral?”
“Yes.”
“How do you get into the back seats?”
“Through that little door.”
End of trip. ;)
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The third row seats in my Aztec. More room than the front row seats of an RV-6. :D

IMG_0702.JPG
 
Ok, so I don't have a whole lot to compare against as the most complex plane in which I previously had time was a C182RG. I'm doing multi training in an A55 Baron now. That is one fast Beech. Maybe one day...
 
midwestpa24 said:
I've got time in a similar upgraded Baron. It's a beast, fuel and 4 adults and still climbing well over 1,000 feet a minute. If you are willing to burn 18 gph per side it will get 200 ktas all day long. Owner prefers to run LOP which gets about 12-14 gph per side at around 165 ktas.
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The only time I ridden in a twin was in a Baron with two aboard. Needless to say, the owner (and pilot) didn't have any trouble with climbing.
 
Ghery said:
The only time I ridden in a twin was in a Baron with two aboard. Needless to say, the owner (and pilot) didn't have any trouble with climbing.
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It's sort of their main party trick. Gobs of excess thrust = climb rate and a few extra kts cruise.

I see 2k/min on mine all the time. I seldom have the seats OR tanks full. It's amusing and helps justify all of the other downsides :D
 
schmookeeg said:
It's sort of their main party trick. Gobs of excess thrust = climb rate and a few extra kts cruise.

I see 2k/min on mine all the time. I seldom have the seats OR tanks full. It's amusing and helps justify all of the other downsides :D
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Can you comment on the cost of ownership? Annuals specifically.
 
schmookeeg said:
I see 2k/min on mine all the time.
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That's impressive!

And I thought our beater Duchess had impressive climb rates! It will do a steady 1200-1500 fpm with two onboard and full tanks up through around 5K at 100 IAS. Are impressive climb rates true to all twins, or are some better at this than others?
 
eman1200 said:
agree, also interested in the "downsides".........
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Upsides:
2 engines
2 props
2 vacuum pumps
2 alternators
Downsides:
2 engines
2 props
2 vacuum pumps
2 alternators
:)

Honestly the added cost of operating are the only real downsides but the upsides outweigh them for me. Can carry a lot, go fast, have redundancy, full de-ice systems, good wing loading/better ride, etc. My annuals average around 2-4K but I’m always doing little improvements at that time which increases that. I dropped her off Monday for my 5th annual (I think). If you don’t have much twin time you could probably throw increased insurance premiums in the downside column till you get more time. Then it seems not far off from 6 seat complex/HP singles with similar hull values.

Thinking of trading in the green machine?
 
Radar Contact said:
Upsides:
2 engines
2 props
2 vacuum pumps
2 alternators
Downsides:
2 engines
2 props
2 vacuum pumps
2 alternators
:)

Honestly the added cost of operating are the only real downsides but the upsides outweigh them for me. Can carry a lot, go fast, have redundancy, full de-ice systems, good wing loading/better ride, etc. My annuals average around 2-4K but I’m always doing little improvements at that time which increases that. I dropped her off Monday for my 5th annual (I think). If you don’t have much twin time you could probably throw increased insurance premiums in the downside column till you get more time. Then it seems not far off from 6 seat complex/HP singles with similar hull values.

Thinking of trading in the green machine?
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I really have no NEED for a twin. right now I'm just looking to get twin time. my Grasshopper serves me well.
 
Radar Contact said:
Upsides:
2 engines
2 props
2 vacuum pumps
2 alternators
Downsides:
2 engines
2 props
2 vacuum pumps
2 alternators
:)

Honestly the added cost of operating are the only real downsides but the upsides outweigh them for me. Can carry a lot, go fast, have redundancy, full de-ice systems, good wing loading/better ride, etc. My annuals average around 2-4K but I’m always doing little improvements at that time which increases that. I dropped her off Monday for my 5th annual (I think). If you don’t have much twin time you could probably throw increased insurance premiums in the downside column till you get more time. Then it seems not far off from 6 seat complex/HP singles with similar hull values.

Thinking of trading in the green machine?
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I just asked for a quote to move into a twin. I have no twin time but assuming I had 25 hrs by the time I purchased, IFR rated, HP and complex time and $129K hull value - they said $6-$8k and many insurers aren’t even insuring new twin pilots.


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Tommar98 said:
I just asked for a quote to move into a twin. I have no twin time but assuming I had 25 hrs by the time I purchased, IFR rated, HP and complex time and $129K hull value - they said $6-$8k and many insurers aren’t even insuring new twin pilots.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Seems to be a common issue to those moving up. If you do just fly the crap out of it the first year. It will come down. Mine is in the 3 range with 70K more hull value.
 
Tantalum said:
That's impressive!

And I thought our beater Duchess had impressive climb rates! It will do a steady 1200-1500 fpm with two onboard and full tanks up through around 5K at 100 IAS. Are impressive climb rates true to all twins, or are some better at this than others?
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I mean, to climb on one, two must be even better, yeah? :) I don't have a breadth of different twin experience (mostly barons, twinkie, seneca, seminole) and I thought they were all really good climbers on two.

I have a horsepower increase STC (2 x IO-550s) and a light airframe, so what was already a decent platform in the D55 was made even decent-er. 1900# useful with "2 dudes and some gas" leaves a heck of a lot of performance available to be turned into noise and climb.

Costs are about 2.5x my S35 Bonanza fully cooked. My last annual was a lot of catch-up stuff and a top overhaul on the RHE, and it was 18K. Expecting the next to be in the 8-10k range.

Unless we're doing the "inspection only, not squawks" game, then I think it's about $2500 :)
 
eman1200 said:
agree, also interested in the "downsides".........
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twice the 'joy' of caring for a continental engine, mainly. I literally just did back-to-back starter adapters on mine, both unexpected, netting 9 weeks of total downtime. Super aggravating, but I used the time to install a Shadin and clean a lot of house under the instrument panel.

just shy of 60gph on takeoff is a little eye-watering, and I need to be super vigilant about training lest the thing try to bounce me on my head one day when I'm being lazy and an engine packs up. In fact, I plan to play hookey tomorrow and go bone up on my OEI stuff, I feel rusty and dangerous, and wouldn't take passengers without some practice time.

cruise fuel is a choose-your-own-adventure game, but the game is played in the 16-30gph range which I find tolerable enough, but can't pretend there is any $100 hamburger to be had with the thing. More like $350. :D
 
schmookeeg said:
I mean, to climb on one, two must be even better, yeah
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Fair enough, but:
schmookeeg said:
seminole
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My first few twin rides were in a Seminole, and while it certainly outclimbed the PA28 I was used to I found the Duchess to really fly quite well. I understand it was built primarily for training, but it's one of the easiest planes I've flown.. a real testament to Beech I guess. It just goes exactly where you point it and doesn't have any "gotchas" .. even the VMC demo maneuvers could not have felt anymore "textbook"

schmookeeg said:
Costs are about 2.5x my S35 Bonanza fully cooked
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I guess it makes sense.. it's an entirely different kind of flying
 
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