Balancing my PA-32-300

[joycem137]

After two months of training, my instructor finally gave me the green light to go fly. (Life, scheduling issues, and me having some things to unlearn made it take longer than I wanted, but we made it!)

Anyways, I've been wondering about the balancing of the plane. When we did a flight at 95% max gross on a hot day to fulfill insurance requirements, I needed a LOT of nose down trim on final to maintain 80kts. In fact, I had it all the way to the stop and it still wasn't enough. The W&B chart showed us as being towards the forward end of the top of the curve.

I don't have the exact info from that flight, but it was close to the attached image.

This makes me feel like something is off. I'm going to double check all of the W&B information tonight to make sure I didn't calculate something wrong, but assuming this was right... What do you think is going on? Could the most recent empty weighing be wrong? Or is this just how this plane flies? I did a flight with less weight and noticed that I was using a bit of nose down trim to do straight and level flight, even.. Here's what that looked like:

Maybe something is weird with the trim tab? What should I suggest to my mechanic, if anything?

 

[Lachlan]

It is possible that your trim tab needs to be re-rigged, but that seems less probable than a simpler explanation, like exact weights and loading of the aircraft.

 

[drotto]

This sounds off on a PA32. They are generally very nose heavy and like nose up trim. What was in the plane and where?

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[joycem137]

This sounds off on a PA32. They are generally very nose heavy and like nose up trim. What was in the plane and where?

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In the heavy scenario, we had 470 pounds in the front seat, 200 pounds in the back seat, 80 pounds in the rear baggage, and 504 pounds of fuel.

In the second scenario, I had 300 pounds up front, 170 in the middle, 504 pounds of fuel.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Look at the superceded empty W&B's. If the CG shifted more than a tenth or two, make sure the math was done properly. I've found 10 or more airplane's with bad CGs that way.

 

[joycem137]

Sorry for the terrible picture. Here's where the trim was set while doing level flight in the lighter scenario.

 

[Shepherd]

You have a problem, and I suggest you get some serious professional help to get it sorted out.
Your plane sounds like it is seriously tail heavy.

 

[joycem137]

You have a problem, and I suggest you get some serious professional help to get it sorted out.
Your plane sounds like it is seriously tail heavy.

My mechanic is gonna look into it next week.

I wonder what's up with this...

 

[drotto]

My mechanic is gonna look into it next week.

I wonder what's up with this...

My Saratoga if anything in straight and level flight is usually trimmed slightly behind neutral.

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[joycem137]

My Saratoga if anything in straight and level flight is usually trimmed slightly behind neutral.

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Unless someone hid a pile of bricks in the tail of the plane, my guess (and what the mechanic is going to look at) is the elevator trim rigging to make sure it's correct.

 

[Unit74]

This is a Gross loading on my T Tail. I've flown it like this numerous times. Aft trim it always wants. Also, look at the CG shift on your chart. That looks pretty significant. Are you sure it's set up right?

 

[joycem137]

Turns out the trim was way out of rigging. We fixed it up and it's flying much better now!

 

[murphey]

Turns out the trim was way out of rigging. We fixed it up and it's flying much better now!

So many (a big many!) of older aircraft haven't been re-rigged in years, if ever. I had the local shop do mine this summer after replacing the yoke Ujoints during annual. The A&P and a local acro pilot took it up to check. Came back and fiddled with it some more until they were happy. I dunno when I get to fly it. Rats.

 

[danhagan]

Unless someone hid a pile of bricks in the tail of the plane, my guess (and what the mechanic is going to look at) is the elevator trim rigging to make sure it's correct.

Check BEFORE the mechanic as these bricks may not be the "mortar" type ... has the plane been south of the border?

Turns out the trim was way out of rigging. We fixed it up and it's flying much better now!

That's is short for "mechanic found bricks" and is now very happy. Customer given usual trim slop story and they're happy too

 

[Mtns2Skies]

When I bought my skywagon there was about 2 inches of slop in the yoke before it had any effect on the elevator. The nose down trim also stopped well before it was supposed to. So much so, that in cruise flight I occasionally didn't have enough down trim to keep it there.

I had my A&P's tear my tail apart, inspect the jackscrews, take care of a SB, replace all of the bushings, install additional inspection panels (perSTC) and re-rig everything. What a difference that made. It flew like a whole new plane. I didn't even realize my rudder was a bit loose until I got it back... then it was tight!