Bad place to have a wreck - North Fox Island (6y3)...

One other interesting thing on the 172 : The ELT was armed and never went off. We tested it by flipping the switch manually, it then made it's irritating noise on my hand held. The aircraft is totaled but still did not set it off.

With the nosewheel dug into the ground like that most of the energy was dissipated. It takes a lot of G to set off an ELT. If you’re able to walk away, the ELT probably didn’t go off. If you’re in the boonies you’ll probably have to throw the switch yourself.

When you “tested” it did you let AFRCC know first? The “irritating noise” if it was 406 unit was data, including the aircraft ID and last known position if it had a GPS connection. Flipping the on switch is not the proper way to test a 406 ELT.
 
Actually the nose gear is not dug in. A main gear wheel and tire were sheared off and the other main and nose gear are fine.
The wheel and tire have not been found yet and are off in the woods/poison ivy somewhere.

What’s the large plowed divot from in front of the aircraft in the photo above? Sure looks like the turf is rolled up there just in front of the nose.
 
What’s the large plowed divot from in front of the aircraft in the photo above? Sure looks like the turf is rolled up there just in front of the nose.
That's probably dirt pushed by the prop, the nose wheel is in good shape and nose gear not bent or in the ground
the sheared left main did the plowing and as mentioned before the wheel ,tire axle and brake asby is still somewhere out in the woods.
 
With the nosewheel dug into the ground like that most of the energy was dissipated. It takes a lot of G to set off an ELT. If you’re able to walk away, the ELT probably didn’t go off. If you’re in the boonies you’ll probably have to throw the switch yourself.

When you “tested” it did you let AFRCC know first? The “irritating noise” if it was 406 unit was data, including the aircraft ID and last known position if it had a GPS connection. Flipping the on switch is not the proper way to test a 406 ELT.
They just had me turn on my radio, ,they did the switch flip'n". They were the authority, they were runnin the show.
 
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Easy there killer. I just asked if it was the same place. No doubt there’s plenty of sickos in all sorts of places. I don’t think it’ll keep any pilots from flying to Los Angeles, or the island.

Just sayin' why not just say " that cool island out in Lk. Mi . that the RAF opened for all to use.
 
Thanks for clearing things up Brad (even though you ruined all the guessing and speculation). Glad no one was seriously injured or worse. Hope to get out there some day.

These are my thoughts on the accident and may not be what the official report will be.

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I have flown in there many times and know the airstrip well.
The 172 taxied full length of the runway to the east,said he made announcement to depart on 122.9
Extra 300 said he made a fly over to scan for traffic (after the accident he told the 172 pilot and the witness on the ground he saw the 172 doing the taxi).
The witness on the ground heard the Extra circle but could not see it.( trees on all quadrants 60-80 ft.)
Witnesses are all at west end looking east and see Extra coming in very low over the trees on approach.
They also see the 172 rolling, they did not have a radio to warn either.
They then hit.
There is a 1,000ft displace threshold on the accident end, low over the trees makes a huge blind spot for the Extra pilot who in my opinion already has a visual disadvantage flying from the back seat, mid-wing and all plus watching the trees on both sides of the 225ft slot he's landing in.
They collided at right about the 1,000ft mark Extra into the back end of the 172
So----- my opinion---
Anyone flying into North Fox Island 6Y3 should be on the radio 122.9 announcing positions ,that they are scanning for traffic and then intentions ,upwind ,crosswind ,down wind, base and final.
Anyone taking off should be on 122.9 and announce taxi, announce roll, then departure direction.
Might be a lot of talking but just in case the two aircraft stepped on one another chances are they wouldn't on every radio call.
Aircraft on the ground here can see no one in the air unless the overhead aircraft is directly overhead. and in a high wing plane ,in front of them.
Again this was in my opinion a "perfect storm" high wing aircraft on the ground ,low wing aircraft in the air above . Plus throw in the tall trees to complicate that even further.
Assumptions pilots make:
They have a birds eye view they can see me.
I didn't see the aircraft so there is not one there .
No one on the radio ,must be it's all clear ( to land or to take off)

I'm not judging either pilot in this, although my opinion again, both could have done better by doing more than what's just required or the normal. This is a challenging airstrip in a beautiful but very different environment than most other airports
6Y3 has been an airport since 1962, all types of aircraft have flown in there from J-3's to a DC-3, groups of aircraft, aircraft with no radios.
This is the first accident there ever in it's 56 years , maybe both pilots could have done a little more to anticipate, announce and see and avoid.
I am extremely grateful that all 5 walked away from this.
The one thing that stands out in my mind is the two FAA guys talking at the scene, " I can't believe there's not blood all over this 172." Those two pilots should have gone out and bought some lottery tickets.
 
I wondered the same thing. The airport was recently reopened after much work by RAF; perhaps someone at NTSB was writing from historical (i.e. obsolete) information?
Yeah ,not sure on the past tense look.
The NOTAM goes to Dec. 31st although I will pull it as soon as aircraft are removed and we repair the divits, maybe by next week.
 
Brad, so sad to hear about the crash at N Fox, but very relieved that the injuries were so minor. Especially after seeing what's left of the 172. You are such a great ambassador for aviation and safety in aviation. Keep up the good work, and keep reminding us all to be ever vigilant as pilots.

Hope things work out for our 6th trip to the UP, been way too long since we have seen the two of you.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 
Looking forward to seeing you there , (and everyone else) at 6Y9 in <30.
Thanks for the kind words , not hard to do these things in aviation when you meet great friends along the way.
 
These are my thoughts on the accident and may not be what the official report will be.

.
I have flown in there many times and know the airstrip well.
The 172 taxied full length of the runway to the east,said he made announcement to depart on 122.9
Extra 300 said he made a fly over to scan for traffic (after the accident he told the 172 pilot and the witness on the ground he saw the 172 doing the taxi).
The witness on the ground heard the Extra circle but could not see it.( trees on all quadrants 60-80 ft.)
Witnesses are all at west end looking east and see Extra coming in very low over the trees on approach.
They also see the 172 rolling, they did not have a radio to warn either.
They then hit.
There is a 1,000ft displace threshold on the accident end, low over the trees makes a huge blind spot for the Extra pilot who in my opinion already has a visual disadvantage flying from the back seat, mid-wing and all plus watching the trees on both sides of the 225ft slot he's landing in.
They collided at right about the 1,000ft mark Extra into the back end of the 172
So----- my opinion---
Anyone flying into North Fox Island 6Y3 should be on the radio 122.9 announcing positions ,that they are scanning for traffic and then intentions ,upwind ,crosswind ,down wind, base and final.
Anyone taking off should be on 122.9 and announce taxi, announce roll, then departure direction.
Might be a lot of talking but just in case the two aircraft stepped on one another chances are they wouldn't on every radio call.
Aircraft on the ground here can see no one in the air unless the overhead aircraft is directly overhead. and in a high wing plane ,in front of them.
Again this was in my opinion a "perfect storm" high wing aircraft on the ground ,low wing aircraft in the air above . Plus throw in the tall trees to complicate that even further.
Assumptions pilots make:
They have a birds eye view they can see me.
I didn't see the aircraft so there is not one there .
No one on the radio ,must be it's all clear ( to land or to take off)

I'm not judging either pilot in this, although my opinion again, both could have done better by doing more than what's just required or the normal. This is a challenging airstrip in a beautiful but very different environment than most other airports
6Y3 has been an airport since 1962, all types of aircraft have flown in there from J-3's to a DC-3, groups of aircraft, aircraft with no radios.
This is the first accident there ever in it's 56 years , maybe both pilots could have done a little more to anticipate, announce and see and avoid.
I am extremely grateful that all 5 walked away from this.
The one thing that stands out in my mind is the two FAA guys talking at the scene, " I can't believe there's not blood all over this 172." Those two pilots should have gone out and bought some lottery tickets.


Talking on the radio... common sense for any untowered airport.
 
Talking on the radio... common sense for any untowered airport.
Yep a bit more common sense would have helped.
I just took off the Notam "closed" so it's now back open.
I hope we can go at least another 56 years without another accident. One here is too many, they were so lucky.
 
KathrynsReport.jpg


Woof
 
That's a lot of cowl out front there on that Extra. I wonder if slipping on final to get that cowl out of the way of the view of the runway might have made a difference.
 
That's a lot of cowl out front there on that Extra. I wonder if slipping on final to get that cowl out of the way of the view of the runway might have made a difference.
If he is landing, he is nose down or almost level. Forward visibility shouldn't be a problem until he starts his flare.
 
One other interesting thing on the 172 : The ELT was armed and never went off. We tested it by flipping the switch manually, it then made it's irritating noise on my hand held. The aircraft is totaled but still did not set it off.
The ELT normally uses an inertia switch that closes on sudden deceleration (frontal impact).
If the 172 was hit from behind, that would have not been a deceleration impact and would not have set off the ELT.

In any case, glad the collision wasn't worse, this could have been bad, really really bad. Happy for all occupants to have survived.
 
If he is landing, he is nose down or almost level. Forward visibility shouldn't be a problem until he starts his flare.

OK. I don't know Extra's. I think it said somewhere above he was solo flying from the rear seat. Thought it might be obscuring the view.
 
Thanks for "the rest of the story." My father and I were planning on flying in Saturday 7/21 and camping overnight, but changed plans due to bad weather back east. I was very surprised to hear of a collision between two aircraft on such an out of the way airstrip. Sometimes we feel silly making radio calls in the blind for sleepy little airports, but this is a great reminder of why you can never be complacent.
 
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ADSB, properly working, is actually much better than "see and avoid", which has failed numerous times. Of course it requires all to participate to be of use (both ADSB and S&A!) The combination of the two would be best.
It appears that the airstrip was only reopened a few years ago: https://www.flyingmag.com/news/island-airfield-reopens-michigan

It was shut down for about 5 years after the State of Mi. bought the Island.
I reopened it for the RAF so the public could use it in Sept. of 2015.
 
It was shut down for about 5 years after the State of Mi. bought the Island.
I reopened it for the RAF so the public could use it in Sept. of 2015.
Hi again Brad, We met at the 6y5 fly-in.

Is Fox island opened back up again? We were thinking of camping there this weekend to see the Perseid meteor shower Saturday night. (Weather permitting)
 
OK. I don't know Extra's. I think it said somewhere above he was solo flying from the rear seat. Thought it might be obscuring the view.
Pilot was in the back seat ,passenger was in the front. Both not a scratch, probably from the H-D shoulder harness's
 
Hi again Brad, We met at the 6y5 fly-in.

Is Fox island opened back up again? We were thinking of camping there this weekend to see the Perseid meteor shower Saturday night. (Weather permitting)
Hi there, yes North Fox is back open, pulled the Notam last night 8/07/2018. The divits are filled ,the grass is cut, the wrecked aircraft have been helo'd to Beaver Island.
After the recent accident I will continue to stress as before communicate thoroughly on 122.9 and do a complete scan of the full runway.
Have fun!!
 
Unfortunate.

If the Extra announced he was on final, and the 172 announced he was taking off, the Extra could've simply gone around. No matter how remote the airport, there could always be that other plane!
 
It started as the BAF (Backcountry Aviation Foundation) and changed to the RAF because they are not just about "backcountry" anymore, they ,(we), are about recreational airstrips.
"They manage a couple", has grown into many.
Started in 2003 with 6 guys, is fast approaching 10,000 members. Someone said as far as aviation groups a distant 3rd behind AOPA and EAA now.
Interesting , fun and different . All volunteer top to bottom.
 
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BARF, catchy ,I'll run it past management:rolleyes:
 
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