Awesome experience and looking for 172 checklist!

ChrisK

ChrisK

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When I was 15, I was taken for a flight in Cessna Skyhawk N35313. Since that flight, I was given the opportunity to fly as a passenger in that aircraft and in several others over the following few years.

Having completed my training in a few Cessna 152's, I was checked out in a 172 today. I know that there are a lot of niggling threads here and I was hoping to contrarily post about just how awesome it was to go back to flying the plane I first got a ride in all those years ago. Unlike the 152 (who needs trim? rudder pedals? ok sometimes, but mostly to correct poor rigging!), this was the first time I felt like I was really FLYING instead of kinda puttering around.

The view from the 172 is just fabulous compared to what I trained in. I can't believe how much I actually have to force the nose down / trim down in the pattern and when landing (compared to the sight picture in the 152), and you best trim that nose up prior to flare or you'll pull a muscle. This beast really wants to be in the sky! It makes me wonder why I ever put my hand on a two seat trainer.

Now that I'm checked out, I scheduled some time to do some proficiency flying this weekend. There was a guy in my local CAP squadron who really wants to get up in the air, and I promised I'd take him with me. If he's willing to be my first passenger, I'm more than happy to take him. I know I said previously that I wouldn't take a "timid" non-pilot passenger when doing proficiency maneuvers, but I really think this one is a good choice for something like that, and I am excited to share my experience. Given the depth of his aviation experience, I do not think my maneuvers will bother him in the slightest.

Do you folks have access to any good "starter" checklists for 172's? I'm hoping for something that I can modify and that can be made to fit on a kneeboard. My club has both knots and MPH versions.
 
ChrisK said:
It makes me wonder why I ever put my hand on a two seat trainer.
Click to expand...
I reckon to save money. I wish I could've learned the basics in a 152 but I started in a 172.

Have fun with it! Keep us posted how it goes on Saturday!
 
Here's the one I wrote for a 172N during my primary training. Feel free to modify (I doubt the local frequencies are appropriate to you) and redistribute as you see fit.

It is mean to be folded in half to fit on a kneeboard. You turn it over when asking for takeoff clearance (or announcing you're taking off) and leave it there.

FWIW, check out in a Cherokee now. Visibility is far, far better in the pattern, the aircraft is a bit more stable in the air, and ground handling is hugely improved. You'll wonder why you spent so much time in a Cessna. It's a nearly trivial transition. The drawbacks are that they are more difficult to get into (only one door), the windows don't open, and it's virtually impossible to take a photograph without a wingtip in it.
 

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MAKG1 said:
Here's the one I wrote for a 172N during my primary training. Feel free to modify (I doubt the local frequencies are appropriate to you) and redistribute as you see fit.

It is mean to be folded in half to fit on a kneeboard. You turn it over when asking for takeoff clearance (or announcing you're taking off) and leave it there.

FWIW, check out in a Cherokee now. Visibility is far, far better in the pattern, the aircraft is a bit more stable in the air, and ground handling is hugely improved. You'll wonder why you spent so much time in a Cessna. It's a nearly trivial transition. The drawbacks are that they are more difficult to get into (only one door), the windows don't open, and it's virtually impossible to take a photograph without a wingtip in it.
Click to expand...

Thanks! And I'll look around for a Cherokee. My club doesn't have one, but I bet someone does...

Edit - that's exactly what I wanted. That'll save me an hour or so - just have to modify from my POH.
 
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MAKG1 said:
Here's the one I wrote for a 172N during my primary training. Feel free to modify (I doubt the local frequencies are appropriate to you) and redistribute as you see fit.

It is mean to be folded in half to fit on a kneeboard. You turn it over when asking for takeoff clearance (or announcing you're taking off) and leave it there.

FWIW, check out in a Cherokee now. Visibility is far, far better in the pattern, the aircraft is a bit more stable in the air, and ground handling is hugely improved. You'll wonder why you spent so much time in a Cessna. It's a nearly trivial transition. The drawbacks are that they are more difficult to get into (only one door), the windows don't open, and it's virtually impossible to take a photograph without a wingtip in it.
Click to expand...

And the flaps are manual. Hate.
 
MAKG1 said:
FWIW, check out in a Cherokee now. Visibility is far, far better in the pattern, the aircraft is a bit more stable in the air, and ground handling is hugely improved.
Click to expand...

Or find a Grumman AA-1X. Full glass canopy, superb ground handling with a castering nose wheel, and sips 6 gph while cruising faster than your 172. A Grumman AA-5X is even faster and can carry 2 + luggage easily, but the canopy is not full glass. The AA-1X is the small single engine "Miata" of the air. Any of the AA-series will leave the Cessna and Piper spam cans in the dust for the same hp. Hook up with a Grumman-savvy instructor if you do this.

BTW, I really liked training in the C-152. It's a pretty responsive airplane. I found the C-172 very easy to fly but more like a pickup truck: kinda heavy and stable. Not that that is a bad thing...:D

Cheers.
 
I don't think "cessna 172" and "beast" have ever been mentioned in the same breath before.
 
gcd89 said:
And the flaps are manual. Hate.
Click to expand...

You would be in the minority of pilots I know who prefer flaky Cessna electric flaps over the Cherokee Johnson bar flaps. Older 172s had the Johnson bar also. Besides having to replace the motor. There's much more utility in having the flap setting you want available immediately over flipping/holding down a switch and listening to a motor buzz for half a minute while counting or watching an inaccurate flap indicator move. :D
 
david0tey said:
I don't think "cessna 172" and "beast" have ever been mentioned in the same breath before.
Click to expand...

Only by people who have never flown anything heavier. The 172 is a toy compared to a 206 or even a 180/182/185.

And rudder pedals and trim only needed to correct a badly-rigged airplane??

Dan
 
Dan Thomas said:
Only by people who have never flown anything heavier. The 172 is a toy compared to a 206 or even a 180/182/185.
Click to expand...
I've been at the controls of a 182 (for about 45 minutes) and have certainly felt the difference. I was exaggerating the point a bit that it was nice to fly an airplane I couldn't push around as easily.

Dan Thomas said:
And rudder pedals and trim only needed to correct a badly-rigged airplane??
Click to expand...

Hyperbole. Even my DPE said that in many cases I could completely ignore the rudder pedals in the 152. My point is that they aren't quite as resistant as on a bigger aircraft.

I was just posting to say how awesome I currently think general aviation is, and how I'm looking forward to flying different kinds of aircraft over time. The 172 was my first checkout in something other than what I trained in. I look forward to many more.
 
Hyperbole. Even my DPE said that in many cases I could completely ignore the rudder pedals in the 152. My point is that they aren't quite as resistant as on a bigger aircraft.

That DPE should not have told you that and one of the reasons that stick and rudder skills have become so poor. I don't care if you are in an ultralite or heavy iron you should always have the airplane trimmed and the ball in the center. Don
 
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gcd89 said:
And the flaps are manual. Hate.
Click to expand...

Actually, I kinda like the "parking brake." It's perfect to pop down FAST during a T&G. There is no guessing about 20 vs. 30 deg.

The only flap control I've used that I really hate is the momentary switch used on 172Ms.

I don't care for the trim wheel location for manual trim Warriors.
 
yakdriver said:
That DPE is an idiot and one of the reasons that stick and rudder skills have become so poor. I don't care if you are in an ultralite or heavy iron you should always have the airplane trimmed and the ball in the center. Don
Click to expand...

Idiot? Really? I don't understand why people can't state opposing opinions without resulting to slurs and name calling. I want much more for this board. I want like minded people with a passion for flight to engage in civil and community building conversation. I'll never understand why we have to resort to name calling.

I'll take a stab at what could have so easily been your response...

"I can't say that I would agree with that DPE. While a 152 can certainly be flown without paying much attention to the rudder, there are absolutely situations where it is still needed. Slips and crosswind landings being two such examples. Stick and rudder flying is still an important part of flying and I think that many pilots lose those skills over time if they're not properly exercised."
 
ChrisK said:
When I was 15, I was taken for a flight in Cessna Skyhawk N35313. Since that flight, I was given the opportunity to fly as a passenger in that aircraft and in several others over the following few years.

Having completed my training in a few Cessna 152's, I was checked out in a 172 today. I know that there are a lot of niggling threads here and I was hoping to contrarily post about just how awesome it was to go back to flying the plane I first got a ride in all those years ago. Unlike the 152 (who needs trim? rudder pedals? ok sometimes, but mostly to correct poor rigging!), this was the first time I felt like I was really FLYING instead of kinda puttering around.

The view from the 172 is just fabulous compared to what I trained in. I can't believe how much I actually have to force the nose down / trim down in the pattern and when landing (compared to the sight picture in the 152), and you best trim that nose up prior to flare or you'll pull a muscle. This beast really wants to be in the sky! It makes me wonder why I ever put my hand on a two seat trainer.

Now that I'm checked out, I scheduled some time to do some proficiency flying this weekend. There was a guy in my local CAP squadron who really wants to get up in the air, and I promised I'd take him with me. If he's willing to be my first passenger, I'm more than happy to take him. I know I said previously that I wouldn't take a "timid" non-pilot passenger when doing proficiency maneuvers, but I really think this one is a good choice for something like that, and I am excited to share my experience. Given the depth of his aviation experience, I do not think my maneuvers will bother him in the slightest.

Do you folks have access to any good "starter" checklists for 172's? I'm hoping for something that I can modify and that can be made to fit on a kneeboard. My club has both knots and MPH versions.
Click to expand...

Use the POH/AFM and go from there, always worked for me.:dunno:
 
jason said:
Idiot? Really? I don't understand why people can't state opposing opinions without resulting to slurs and name calling. I want much more for this board. I want like minded people with a passion for flight to engage in civil and community building conversation. I'll never understand why we have to resort to name calling.

I'll take a stab at what could have so easily been your response...

"I can't say that I would agree with that DPE. While a 152 can certainly be flown without paying much attention to the rudder, there are absolutely situations where it is still needed. Slips and crosswind landings being two such examples. Stick and rudder flying is still an important part of flying and I think that many pilots lose those skills over time if they're not properly exercised."
Click to expand...

For a DPE who just finished giving a guy his checkride tell him that you really don't need to use the rudder is dumb. Now he has heard that from no less than the guy who gave him his ticket so he must think he doesn't have to pay much attention to coordinated flight. Stick and rudder skills are the MOST important aspect of flying. Don
 
MAKG1 said:
The only flap control I've used that I really hate is the momentary switch used on 172Ms.
.
Click to expand...

I have the momentary switch and love it. I hit the switch until the plane feels, sounds and looks right for what I want and let go. When I'm on short final I just hold it down till the noise stops and I have full flaps.
 
yakdriver said:
For a DPE who just finished giving a guy his checkride tell him that you really don't need to use the rudder is dumb. Now he has heard that from no less than the guy who gave him his ticket so he must think he doesn't have to pay much attention to coordinated flight. Stick and rudder skills are the MOST important aspect of flying. Don
Click to expand...

But you don't really know the details of the conversation, do you? You don't know how he said it nor how he meant it. You kind of know how it was received. But even then, you may not have interpreted it the way that Chris meant it when he wrote it.

To go from one sentence to calling a guy an idiot is just...not necessary. There are so much more effective ways to communicate. We're all on the same team here. We ALL love to fly and want the best for our passion. I promise you that if you want to convince people that they need to rethink their opinions on stick and rudder flying and you want to impress upon them the importance of coordinated flight...coming out with both guns blazing calling people "idiots" isn't going to do as much to make your case as something along the lines of what I wrote.

I'm not really trying to single you out. I've noticed this tendency a lot on this board lately and I *hate* it. I want the people that post here to feel welcomed and informed...not tormented into submission. Your post was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
 
Henning said:
I have the momentary switch and love it. I hit the switch until the plane feels, sounds and looks right for what I want and let go. When I'm on short final I just hold it down till the noise stops and I have full flaps.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong -- I can and do use these switches on occasion.

But I much prefer either a "set and forget" switch (like the 172N and later models) so I can move on to something else, or a more positive control like a Johnson bar.

And I can't hear the flap motor with my headset on and the engine running. Nor can I trust the indicator. I have to look out the window to decide when to take my hand off the switch. Not good for multitasking. Now, it's a good idea to do that anyway on a Cessna to make sure the flaps are set as I expected, but that's a momentary look rather than a "monitor."
 
Can't see the flaps on a 310 but I never miss hearing (even with ANR)and feeling the motor run and the change in control force as they move. I just watch what the plane is doing and when it stabilizes on the slope for my TD, that's just enough. That's what I like best, easy to fine tune to the condition and position.
 
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ChrisK said:
Hyperbole. Even my DPE said that in many cases I could completely ignore the rudder pedals in the 152.
Click to expand...

No wonder we had so much trouble doing taildragger conversions with new PPLs.

Dan
 
/sigh

If you read my checkride writeup, I said that I had put inappropriate pressure on the left rudder pedal almost the entire ride. He stated that in the 152 I would be better off keeping my feet on the floor the whole time than doing what I did. I was probably locked on the pedals due to nerves. I absolutely know the proper use of pedals, I demonstrated a decent slip, and my DPE is a respected left seat ATP with a lot of experience with GA.

I'm sorry my lack of precision with my previous posts on the topic has caused so much churn in this thread.
 
Chris, I just read your checkride write up. In that you stated that he told you " focus on your feet and rudder control on future flights." This makes a lot more sense to me. I can't imagine a DPE telling you it would be better if you had just kept your feet off the pedals. Also you mentioned "who needs trim in a 152". You have your ticket to learn now, don't be satisfied with being a mediocre pilot. Always have your airplane trimmed and coordinated. My primary flight instructor insisted on this. All through training he would tell me to let go of the yoke at various times just to see if I had the plane trimmed properly. At this stage of the game if you can afford it go take a unusual attitude/ basic aerobatic course preferably in a tailwheel airplane. You will learn more about controlling an airplane in that 3-5hrs than anything you have done so far. It will give you the building block for future ratings and aircraft check outs. Have fun! Don
 
jason said:
But you don't really know the details of the conversation, do you? You don't know how he said it nor how he meant it. You kind of know how it was received. But even then, you may not have interpreted it the way that Chris meant it when he wrote it.

To go from one sentence to calling a guy an idiot is just...not necessary. There are so much more effective ways to communicate. We're all on the same team here. We ALL love to fly and want the best for our passion. I promise you that if you want to convince people that they need to rethink their opinions on stick and rudder flying and you want to impress upon them the importance of coordinated flight...coming out with both guns blazing calling people "idiots" isn't going to do as much to make your case as something along the lines of what I wrote.

I'm not really trying to single you out. I've noticed this tendency a lot on this board lately and I *hate* it. I want the people that post here to feel welcomed and informed...not tormented into submission. Your post was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
Click to expand...

Jason, I don't usually get so fired up and I shouldn't have used that term. I will tone it down from now on and also go back and edit my poor choice of words. Don
 
I was taking a bit of poetic license there. Trim in a 152 seems helpful. Trim in a bigger aircraft seems increasingly necessary. I was trying to note and document the difference.

I look forward to taking some longer trips. I think that my use of trim will continue to be refined over time.
 
Reminded me of my 7 hour cross country where my foot fell asleep numerous times because the plane wasn't rigged correctly (or not loaded correctly). Even though the autopilot was holding course and altitude, my right rudder, and usually right foot, were keeping that ball nailed.
 
yakdriver said:
Jason, I don't usually get so fired up and I shouldn't have used that term. I will tone it down from now on and also go back and edit my poor choice of words. Don
Click to expand...

Wow, thank you for that. Like I said, I wasn't trying to single you out. I just have such high hopes for our community. I want it to be a place of learning and inclusion. Not derision and exclusion. Every pilot deserves the opportunity to come here and learn from those that came before them. They shouldn't feel like they're in the crossfire every time that they post.

Thank you for helping us in that goal...
 
masloki said:
Reminded me of my 7 hour cross country where my foot fell asleep numerous times because the plane wasn't rigged correctly (or not loaded correctly). Even though the autopilot was holding course and altitude, my right rudder, and usually right foot, were keeping that ball nailed.
Click to expand...

Problem with 172/152s is they have a fixed rudder trim tab. Typically they are either set for cruise with lots of right rudder required in climb or they are set for climb (often trainers are this way due to the large percentage of pattern work) which often requires some left rudder in cruise. Sounds like the one you had wasn't set properly for either lol. That's always one of the things I check on preflight in those if I'm taking it on a longer flight and I'll tweak it to where I think it should be.
 
I always thought the ground handling in a 172 was better than a cherokee - the Cherokee is just clunky steering it on the ground. Plus the Cherokee looks a little dumpy IMO. (The Hershey Bar wing ones atleast) the tapered wing flies alot closer to my 172.
 
Henning said:
Problem with 172/152s is they have a fixed rudder trim tab. Typically they are either set for cruise with lots of right rudder required in climb or they are set for climb (often trainers are this way due to the large percentage of pattern work) which often requires some left rudder in cruise. Sounds like the one you had wasn't set properly for either lol. That's always one of the things I check on preflight in those if I'm taking it on a longer flight and I'll tweak it to where I think it should be.
Click to expand...
Quite a lot of 172s have adjustible rudder trim. It's the 152s that are ground-adjusted only.
 
MAKG1 said:
Quite a lot of 172s have adjustible rudder trim. It's the 152s that are ground-adjusted only.
Click to expand...

The one I checked out in has rudder trim. I'm looking forward to mucking with it this weekend.
 
bartmc said:
You would be in the minority of pilots I know who prefer flaky Cessna electric flaps over the Cherokee Johnson bar flaps. Older 172s had the Johnson bar also. Besides having to replace the motor. There's much more utility in having the flap setting you want available immediately over flipping/holding down a switch and listening to a motor buzz for half a minute while counting or watching an inaccurate flap indicator move. :D
Click to expand...

Maybe you're a better pilot than I then.

Trying to keep the plane in a steady descent while trying to find the "notch" while muscling against wind resistance isn't easy. At leat not to me.
 
gcd89 said:
Maybe you're a better pilot than I then.

Trying to keep the plane in a steady descent while trying to find the "notch" while muscling against wind resistance isn't easy. At leat not to me.
Click to expand...

Have about 200ish hours in a Cherokee. It's just 2nd nature to put the flaps where you want them. You'll burn through your notch a time or two but you get the feel for it fairly quick. One "technique" for short field take offs in a Cherokee is to get rolling on the runway with flaps up then, "click,click" and away you go. That won't work well in a in a Cezzna with electric flaps. No "Click,Click" just Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :D
 
Henning said:
Problem with 172/152s is they have a fixed rudder trim tab. Typically they are either set for cruise with lots of right rudder required in climb or they are set for climb (often trainers are this way due to the large percentage of pattern work) which often requires some left rudder in cruise. Sounds like the one you had wasn't set properly for either lol. That's always one of the things I check on preflight in those if I'm taking it on a longer flight and I'll tweak it to where I think it should be.
Click to expand...

A more common problem with the 150/152/172 is a broken rudder bar spring. Those springs are in the tunnel between the pilot's and copilot's pedals. The left spring breaks more often since it get stretched more as the right pedal is held down in the takeoff and climb, and once it's busted, the other spring will pull the rudder off center. The pilot may complain, or might think that this is normal.

If the tail is held down and the nosewheel raised off the ground, the rudder should center itself due to the cam on the nosewheel. If it's not centered, a spring is likely busted.

Dan
 
ChrisK said:
When I was 15, I was taken for a flight in Cessna Skyhawk N35313. Since that flight, I was given the opportunity to fly as a passenger in that aircraft and in several others over the following few years.

Having completed my training in a few Cessna 152's, I was checked out in a 172 today. I know that there are a lot of niggling threads here and I was hoping to contrarily post about just how awesome it was to go back to flying the plane I first got a ride in all those years ago. Unlike the 152 (who needs trim? rudder pedals? ok sometimes, but mostly to correct poor rigging!), this was the first time I felt like I was really FLYING instead of kinda puttering around.

The view from the 172 is just fabulous compared to what I trained in. I can't believe how much I actually have to force the nose down / trim down in the pattern and when landing (compared to the sight picture in the 152), and you best trim that nose up prior to flare or you'll pull a muscle. This beast really wants to be in the sky! It makes me wonder why I ever put my hand on a two seat trainer.

Now that I'm checked out, I scheduled some time to do some proficiency flying this weekend. There was a guy in my local CAP squadron who really wants to get up in the air, and I promised I'd take him with me. If he's willing to be my first passenger, I'm more than happy to take him. I know I said previously that I wouldn't take a "timid" non-pilot passenger when doing proficiency maneuvers, but I really think this one is a good choice for something like that, and I am excited to share my experience. Given the depth of his aviation experience, I do not think my maneuvers will bother him in the slightest.

Do you folks have access to any good "starter" checklists for 172's? I'm hoping for something that I can modify and that can be made to fit on a kneeboard. My club has both knots and MPH versions.
Click to expand...

Before startup/taxi -
1. Check fuel quantity/quality
2. Check the oil - it doesn't have to be full
3. Box the controls.

After startup -
1. Does the engine run right?
2. Check the mags

Before takeoff -
1. Check flaps up
2. Fuel set to both
3. Trim somewhere near the takeoff mark
4. Carb heat off/mixture set for DA

And this list applies to the 150/152 just as well as the 172.

Go fly. That's a whopping total of 9 things that you need to commit to memory to beat the odds. There are plenty of new CFIs that don't think they are doing their job unless they create a 24 page laminated checklist.

I wouldn't be surprised if some conscientious CFI added an item for checking the shoulder harness inertia reel function by throwing one's self toward the panel. No forehead imprint would imply that we're good to go...
 
I don't have a 172 checklist in this format but you can easily modify the attached Excel file.

I like this format because it folds in half so the pre-flight is on the "back" page. Of course, you just turn the thing over when doing the pre-flight so the pre-flight checklist is facing up. (duh!) Then, with the pre-flight down, I clip the just the back page to the clipboard and fold it so the front page covers the clip. The front page has the "in-flight" checklists plus room for making notes. There are also optional "1st" pages with various V speeds listed or you could replace it with any info you wanted. Open it without unclipping it to see the pre-takeoff checklists on the left side and the emergency checklists on the right side. Key headings are printed in color just to make them easier to find quickly.

Note that "Page 1" in the Excel document is really page 4 on the left and page 1 on the right when printed. Page 2 in Excel is really pages 2 and 3 when printed - fold so pages 2 and 3 are on the inside.

This is so easy to print that I just print a few at a time. Print side one then stick 'em back in the printer to print the other side. I use one until I run out of room for notes, and pull out a new one. No need to laminate but I guess you could if you wanted to use a grease pencil so you could erase notes.

Later: I realized I did have a 172 checklist started but it never got finished. I included it but would recommend editing the Warrior version instead.
 

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