Avgas - Regular Unleaded Mix question

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Paul Marston

Filing Flight Plan
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Looking for some veteran pilot advice. I'm a transporter up in New England and I've got two Av-gas mixtures I don't know what to do with. We've been delivering aviation products for 30 years and we've never had an issue, and then in 30 days we had two issues.
#1 1500 gal of 100LL combined with 3280 gal Regular Unleaded automobile gasoline
#2 1800 gal 100LL combined with 900 gal of MoGas.

The two mixes are in separate compartments. From what I read the product seems usable, and we'd gladly sell at a huge discount as we just want to get rid of it and free up our equipment, but we obviously don't want to cause any engine issues. Any ideas?

Thank you
 
Since alcohol is a no no in about all airplanes, the load with regular unleaded is kind of a non starter.
 
Clip4 said:
Since alcohol is a no no in about all airplanes, the load with regular unleaded is kind of a non starter.
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That mix is probably OK for Rotaxes, and I know more than a few owners of experimentals with Continentals or Lycomings who would use it. The problem is that the Rotax powered aircraft hold 20 gallons of fuel, and most experimentals hold <40 gallons. So you've gotta sell hundreds of tankfulls to use all of it. I can't imagine any FBO that would be willing to take on the challenge of selling 9K gallons of a mix like that.
 
I’d probably burn the first one in my car, but it’s probably illegal to do so.
 
Salty said:
I’d probably burn the first one in my car, but it’s probably illegal to do so.
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The lead will probably wipe out the catalytic converter. And those aren't cheap to replace.
 
Hit up the automotive enthusiast forums also. Advertise in National Dragster.

Only problem is the lead will trash O2 sensors in computer controlled combos. But a lot of folks I know still run old school carbs.
 
I think your best bet would be to find some marine users that have outboard powered fishing boats or workboats. They need 89 octane, which should not be a problem with the mix you have, and should not have a problem with alcohol in the fuel.
 
Paul Marston said:
Any ideas?
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FWIW: If you're a transporter with certificates, especially for avgas, post your mixtures on eBay and sell to highest non-aviation bidder. Stay away from anything aviation as fuel quality/origin is always one of the top 3 areas the FAA/DOT look at after an aircraft incident/accident.
 
I can think of lots of applications I’d happily use that gas in but how you’d advertise and distribute to those people is beyond me.

Older carbed pre-emissions cars, antique gas tractors, lawn mowers, etc. Would do just fine in any of those. Maybe even better than regular unleaded for some of the classics designed for leaded fuel.
 
cowman said:
I can think of lots of applications I’d happily use that gas in but how you’d advertise and distribute to those people is beyond me.

Older carbed pre-emissions cars, antique gas tractors, lawn mowers, etc. Would do just fine in any of those. Maybe even better than regular unleaded for some of the classics designed for leaded fuel.
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Yep. If you had 50 gallons. That's a Craigslist sale. 9,000 gallons is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
 
I'd burn that in my airplane, no no problem. 1500 gallons is a little more than I need though...
 
Rgbeard said:
I’m up for 100 Gal for my ‘67 Jaguar
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You are the only person with a vintage Jaguar that actually needs fuel. Everyone else I know that has one can't get them started, so it's a moot point. ;)
 
I think the supplier needs to come deal with it. Why is it your problem they contaminated your tanks?
 
Sell it to Hollywood for their car explosions.
 
I thought I saw a documentary once on how they pipe gas and they don't send it in separate pipes they just mix it in and the gas that is at the transition they just sell to plants that can burn anything. Find one of those.

Or sell it to some municipality to run in their tractors and lawn mowers.
 
Assuming that the auto gas doesn't have ethanol, look for an airport that sells mogas to aircraft. Lots of aircraft can (and do) burn auto fuel, and having a mix of auto / low lead is just fine.
If the auto gas was E-10, then as others have suggested, the market is limited...
 
As a former fuel distributor, I would not sell any of the mixed fuel to anything that flies. Liability reasons.

I would not sell any of the mixed fuel containing tetraethyl lead to on road vehicles.

The lead may cause problems in cars equipped with catalytic converters and electronic controlled fuel injected engines, which is pretty much everything after 1986 or so.

However barrels or 5 gallon cans OK. Don't ask, don't tell. Once it is off your property you have no control over what the fuel is put in.

I would advertise to the racing crowd, boat crowd, off roaders (4 wheelers, mudders) and the snow machine crowd as off road fuel at XXX per gallon until it is gone.

If I was closer I could use 500 gallons.

I feel for ya buddy. I know how it feels to make those mistakes.
 
If the gas is ethanol free? Guys with experimentals will jump all over it. I'd be able to sell that in 5 minutes at my home airport. Long drive to Alaska, though.
 
This might be good for anyone running a race car or an old muscle car. These guys buy 100LL at our airport all the time. I was warned not run leaded fuel through a catalytic converter..the lead will clog it up...not sure how much lead is required to cause issues...I still would not chance it.

Sell it to a farmer running gas burning tractors.

The auto fuel STC requires a mix of 3 gallons mogas to one gallon avgas...this was done to keep the lead content consistent with our old 80 octane avgas...it has only 25 percent the lead content as we now have in 100 LL. It specifies no alcohol.

I have also read articles where some people add water with water soluble dye to
Mogas...then agitate the mixture , wait a day or so and drain off the bottom of the tank..the dyed water mixes with the alcohol, so when the fuel changes color, it is no longer water or alcohol. Would you do this to save a few bucks ?

I made a decision years ago not to run mogas even though I have an STC...not worth it, IMO.
 
Doug Reid said:
The auto fuel STC requires a mix of 3 gallons mogas to one gallon avgas...this was done to keep the lead content consistent with our old 80 octane avgas...it has only 25 percent the lead content as we now have in 100 LL. It specifies no alcohol.
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The Petersen STC doesn't require a mix at all in most engines. They do recommend the ratio you prescribed in Franklin and radial engines, and they recommend running a tank of 100LL every so often (75 hrs, I think) in typical applications. Otherwise, you can as much regular, plus, or premium unleaded as your heart desires, as long as it's PURE gasoline.


Doug Reid said:
Would you do this to save a few bucks ?

I made a decision years ago not to run mogas even though I have an STC...not worth it, IMO.
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This is silly. The negative bull crap about mogas is mostly wives tales, misinformation, or negligent use of it. A flight school near me has run their fleet of 7 airplanes on nothing but mogas for over 10 years with no ill effects. With the current price delta between mogas and 100LL, I'd estimate they're saving nearly $100K per year. Much of that savings is passed to the trainees by way of lower rental rates.

My 182 gets a couple tanks of 100LL per year. The rest is 87 octane gas from the local fillin' station. Never had even a hint of a problem with it. It regularly gets up to 105 deg. here in the summer, and no issues. No starting issues with mine, but an injected engine may have trouble with hot starts in summer. My A&P always comments on how clean my engine is. Haven't fouled a plug in years. It's good stuff, and don't let anybody tell you otherwise. I save two annuals worth of money on gas every year. It's not great for every airplane, but it has proven more than worthy in the C-150s, C-172s, C-182s, PA-28s, and Apache that I've flown using it.
 
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kyleb said:
Yep. If you had 50 gallons. That's a Craigslist sale. 9,000 gallons is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
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Where do you keep coming up with "9,000 gallons"? OP said he had one batch of 1500 and another batch of 1800 gallons...
 
Deliver the contaminated fuel to the refinery for re-refining
 
No one is going to want it.....the MOGAS guys don't want the lead.....and there isn't enough octane for the 100LL mixtures.

Technically there's nothing wrong with it being used as 87 Aviation MOGAS....cept it'll have the lead.
 
OkieFlyer said:
The Petersen STC doesn't require a mix at all in most engines. They do recommend the ratio you prescribed in Franklin and radial engines, and they recommend running a tank of 100LL every so often (75 hrs, I think) in typical applications. Otherwise, you can as much regular, plus, or premium unleaded as your heart desires, as long as it's PURE gasoline.




This is silly. The negative bull crap about mogas is mostly wives tales, misinformation, or negligent use of it. A flight school near me has run their fleet of 7 airplanes on nothing but mogas for over 10 years with no ill effects. With the current price delta between mogas and 100LL, I'd estimate they're saving nearly $100K per year. Much of that savings is passed to the trainees by way of lower rental rates.

My 182 gets a couple tanks of 100LL per year. The rest is 87 octane gas from the local fillin' station. Never had even a hint of a problem with it. It regularly gets up to 105 deg. here in the summer, and no issues. No starting issues with mine, but an injected engine may have trouble with hot starts in summer. My A&P always comments on how clean my engine is. Haven't fouled a plug in years. It's good stuff, and don't let anybody tell you otherwise. I save two annuals worth of money on gas every year. It's not great for every airplane, but it has proven more than worthy in the C-150s, C-172s, C-182s, PA-28s, and Apache that I've flown using it.
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Nothing silly about stating the facts. I purchased 2 Peterson auto fuel stc’s when they took 80 octane off the market years ago....which was the main reason the stc was created. That was the the reason for the 3 to 1 mix..to get lead levels back to 80 octane levels.

Both my aircraft have engines designed to used 80 octane, as are many Continentals, Lycomings, Franklins, and most radial engines in classic aircraft...which is what I own and fly.

You do realize you will very likely void the warranty on your engine if it was not designed to run mogas ?
 
Lachlan said:
Where do you keep coming up with "9,000 gallons"? OP said he had one batch of 1500 and another batch of 1800 gallons...
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Read post #1 again. Slower this time. ;-)

But it is actually closer to 8,000 gallons.
 
Look for a helicopter logging operation flying machines in the Restricted category. ;)
 
FormerHangie said:
I think your best bet would be to find some marine users that have outboard powered fishing boats or workboats. They need 89 octane, which should not be a problem with the mix you have, and should not have a problem with alcohol in the fuel.
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But still can’t have alcohol, at least with any older boats.


Tom
 
WHile the fuel STCs allow a mix of 100LL and an approved autofuel, unless you can verify the octane of the resultant mix and certify no ethanol, it would be dicey.

Some suggestions:

Contact local farmers and ask if any can take lead-contaminated gasoline for their equipment. They'll often have their own tanks.
Call the local fire departments. While gasoline is possibly of less use, they might be able to take it. Our department got a big tank of contaminated JET-A from BWI one year. We used it for practice fires.
Contact the local racing community. I've been at rural airports on Friday afternoons when the local racing crowd would show up to fill up their jugs with 100LL for the weekend activities.
 
topgun260 said:
Look for a helicopter logging operation flying machines in the Restricted category. ;)
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FYI: haven't seen any recips slinging logs lately... and only pure avgas in turbines however usually limited to 100-150hrs use between OHs. E/AB better alternative aviation wise.;)
 
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