AV-30C heading problem?

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Gerry C

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Gerry c
I am considering installing an AV-30C in my C-182. I hear all kinds of bad things about unstable heading. Is this true & can it be fixed?
 
The reports are out-of-the-box the AV-30C is about as stable as a typical DG. With training according to the installation instructions it may improve. uAvionix released a firmware upgrade witch some say improved stability.

Depending on the unit version you may be able to drive it with a magnetometer. Reports seem to vary on whether newer versions are available with an internal magnetometer.
 
Gerry C said:
I am considering installing an AV-30C in my C-182. I hear all kinds of bad things about unstable heading. Is this true & can it be fixed?
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Is this an IFR aircraft? If so, you should probably spring for the G5, which is approved for primary NAV display (can function as your CDI). TBH, the best feature of the G5 HSI is the remote magnetometer, which eliminates precession issues and the need to manually correct the HSI.
 
chemgeek said:
Is this an IFR aircraft? If so, you should probably spring for the G5, which is approved for primary NAV display (can function as your CDI). TBH, the best feature of the G5 HSI is the remote magnetometer, which eliminates precession issues and the need to manually correct the HSI.
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Totally agree,

IMO that
Gerry C said:
I am considering installing an AV-30C in my C-182. I hear all kinds of bad things about unstable heading. Is this true & can it be fixed?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't put one in my aircraft...
 
chemgeek said:
Is this an IFR aircraft? If so, you should probably spring for the G5, which is approved for primary NAV display (can function as your CDI). TBH, the best feature of the G5 HSI is the remote magnetometer, which eliminates precession issues and the need to manually correct the HSI.
Click to expand...
Except that G5s are randomly rebooting or going out of cal during actual IMC. NTSB has a few reports when pilots in IMC declared an emergency .
 
pfarber said:
Except that G5s are randomly rebooting or going out of cal during actual IMC. NTSB has a few reports when pilots in IMC declared an emergency .
Click to expand...

I have over 660 hrs on mine so far and 3 years use last month. They have been flawless. I fly in IMC with them, trust them with my life.
 
pfarber said:
Except that G5s are randomly rebooting or going out of cal during actual IMC. NTSB has a few reports when pilots in IMC declared an emergency .
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Yeah, and people remove their seat belts and get thrown clear of a crash that would have otherwise been fatal.

The point is not whether something can/cannot happen. The point is choosing the odds that are in your favor.
 
Gerry C said:
I am considering installing an AV-30C in my C-182. I hear all kinds of bad things about unstable heading. Is this true & can it be fixed?
Click to expand...
The -002 variant just came out. I'm sending mine in to get them upgraded. The info I got was a new firmware update (software) that will allow hard calibration and also include a feature to use the internal magnetometer in its DG calculations. The second part of it is the internal magnetometer is already on the unit but not physically connected, thus you have to ship the unit to them to make the change. They’ll do the firmware update for you at the same time. Note, the unit will still be a slave DG with required resetting every once in a while. The magnetometer wont be like the G5 version.
 
My experience is that the heading function is not as stable as a typical DG, it drifts off pretty readily even without making a lot of turns or maneuvers. I don't know if the upgrade fixes the problem or not, still waiting to hear the reports. But fact is that nowadays I don't do IFR and all of my nav is GPS so I just set the DG function to TRK. If you need heading for ATC vectors or something like that you can still use the compass.
 
Had the 002 version been realised for the certified version or just the experiential version?
 
There was a guy on Mooneyspace who scrapped his because the DG couldn't hold a sufficiently accurate heading to fly IFR. He did everything imaginable to try and rectify the situation, he did say the company really bent over backwards to try and help.
 
ktup-flyer said:
The -002 variant just came out. I'm sending mine in to get them upgraded. The info I got was a new firmware update (software) that will allow hard calibration and also include a feature to use the internal magnetometer in its DG calculations. The second part of it is the internal magnetometer is already on the unit but not physically connected, thus you have to ship the unit to them to make the change. They’ll do the firmware update for you at the same time. Note, the unit will still be a slave DG with required resetting every once in a while. The magnetometer wont be like the G5 version.
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Will it remain a 30C? Or will it revert to a 30E?
 
Silvaire said:
My experience is that the heading function is not as stable as a typical DG, it drifts off pretty readily even without making a lot of turns or maneuvers. I don't know if the upgrade fixes the problem or not, still waiting to hear the reports. But fact is that nowadays I don't do IFR and all of my nav is GPS so I just set the DG function to TRK. If you need heading for ATC vectors or something like that you can still use the compass.
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This has pretty much exactly been my experience. I think it needs at a minimum a firmware upgrade or something to make it least as stable as a good mechanical DG. As previously posted it might be getting better as we use it some (learning), but I might just be getting used to it as well. I am using it in a 172 that I am training a couple PP students in, at least it is a good reminder to check it against the compass regularly.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
pfarber said:
Except that G5s are randomly rebooting or going out of cal during actual IMC. NTSB has a few reports when pilots in IMC declared an emergency .
Click to expand...

I am not aware of that happening with the G5s at all. What you’re describing sounds like known Aspen issues which have been reported in recent years. I believe those have largely been rectified however.
 
Brand new here. 1957 172. I took out vacuum DG and AI. I had a belt driven vac pump STC. The pump rebuild is no longer feasible. I went 0SMOH in July, and under my AP/IA supervision, took out the entire vac system, upgraded with a complete new wiring harness from battery, new plane power alternator, new sky tech starter, to owner fabbed push pull breaker panel and new push pull switches.

I installed 2 AV-30C, even though anxious about the precession stories…I am not IFR, but I want to be set up to train. Yes, there is no promise AV-30C can be used as a nav indicator yet…
The subD connectors are a real exercise in patience. The pitot static connections to the AI are described required in the manual, so I did em.
I took off without running the installation settings to see what the two units both set to DG would do by comparison. Sure enough, I had pretty bad disagreement between the 2 units in a matter of minutes.
I called Uavionix support. A very knowledgeable and competent person, Rebecca told me I needed to run those installation settings. 1) set function to DG or AI. 2) lock function. Then, you set pitch, roll and slip trim. I understand, if roll or slip trim is incorrect, the instrument will think it is turning when the airplane is not…thus the “precession”.
Here is where it got tricky.. Choosing DG and lock, the software would not go to the trim settings. Soyou must select AI, then the trim settings, THEN choose DG and lock. This is not in the manual.
Flying after all this, precession was almost gone. I am wondering if others who report precession ran the installation manual set up properly.
Now, we went on to another issue. A thin red vertical line appeared on the face of one unit. Rebecca said this is display, so I must send the unit back and they said they would fix it.
Otherwise, I am pleased with reading an AV30-C in the air. The AI, with pitot static derived displays similar to a PFD I thought would be too small and busy, but not so!
Serious IFR, I can see G5 is the way to go, as a nav display and autopilot driver. AV-30C is not there yet, though they state intentions to become suitable.But I don’t think a G5 is really owner installed as an option. There is where you are gonna save at least 1 AMU each on each AV-30, and a lot of labor rate hrs.
 
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I’m looking @ the AV-30 for the Comanche - information I’ve run across is leveling the a/c, fore/aft & laterally is critical prior the set up of the units.
 
Sondavid

If your units are locked how do you unlock them to then

1) Select AI
2) Set the trim
3) THEN choose DG and lock.
 
Bathman said:
Good question- that is what hung me up for a while-
The answer- you can go back into installation mode at any time per the instructions, which is hold down the select knob with the power off, then close your breaker.
The idea is you chose AI, go through the trim, THEN go back and select DG and lock. There is a matrix in the installation manual in order, the fact is you must trick the software by doing it OUT of order.
Click to expand...
 
Domenick said:
The reports are out-of-the-box the AV-30C is about as stable as a typical DG. With training according to the installation instructions it may improve. uAvionix released a firmware upgrade witch some say improved stability.

Depending on the unit version you may be able to drive it with a magnetometer. Reports seem to vary on whether newer versions are available with an internal magnetometer.
Click to expand...
Has anyone installed the AV-Mag? Does it fix the heading problem?
 
asicer said:
Isn't it still EXP only?
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Yes it is Experimental.
  • AV-Mag for experimental aircraft is available now and begins shipping immediately for $249 (US) from uAvionix.com, our network of qualified Installers, and trusted resellers.
  • AV-Mag for certified aircraft is currently pending STC/PMA certification and is expected to begin shipping Spring 2023.
 
Gerry C said:
I am considering installing an AV-30C in my C-182. I hear all kinds of bad things about unstable heading. Is this true & can it be fixed?
Click to expand...
I have one in a pure VFR 172 and it precesses terribly. Have changed settings a few times via advice/directions from uAvionix and it did get better. Having the shop look at it while in for annual currently. We will see if its any better when I get it back
 
Gerry C said:
Yes it is Experimental.
  • AV-Mag for experimental aircraft is available now and begins shipping immediately for $249 (US) from uAvionix.com, our network of qualified Installers, and trusted resellers.
  • AV-Mag for certified aircraft is currently pending STC/PMA certification and is expected to begin shipping Spring 2023.
Click to expand...
I’ve thought about installing it anyway and seeing if it helps…
 
Domenick said:
The reports are out-of-the-box the AV-30C is about as stable as a typical DG. With training according to the installation instructions it may improve. uAvionix released a firmware upgrade witch some say improved stability.
Click to expand...
No, without the firmware upgrade it was far worse than even the balkiest junk DG I flew behind. It's damned near worthless when not slaved.
I've not tried one after they "fixed" the firmware.
 
I'm looking forward to the reviews posted about the exp. version of the magnetometer. I really hope it is the cure. The AV30c I installed in my Grumman drifts 35 degrees in 30 minutes. My last flight was interesting. I reset the DG while on a direct route back to my home airport. It was a 30 minute flight to the airport and the DG drifted less that 3 degrees. However after flying the pattern and landing I looked down at the DG and it was 30 degrees off just from the last 2 minutes of flight while making turns in the pattern.
 
My local school has had one of its pa38's fitted with these units and they have been very impressed with them. They are the latest serial numbers (002) and came with the latest firmware that activates the inbuilt magnometer.

After calibration they work great. I have to say I cant understand what all the fuss is about.
 
Bathman said:
My local school has had one of its pa38's fitted with these units and they have been very impressed with them. They are the latest serial numbers (002) and came with the latest firmware that activates the inbuilt magnometer.
After calibration they work great. I have to say I cant understand what all the fuss is about.
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Ok the AV30C does not have an "inbuilt" magnetometer. Doesn't matter what serial number it is. Don't believe me? Call Uavionics as ask. What IS inside the later units is something called a magnetic sensor which is not to be confused with a magnetometer. All the fuss is because the vast majority of people who have bought these units and had them installed are completely unable to rely on the DG and they render the aircraft VFR only. Uavionics announced a true magnetometer in development and say it will be available spring next year. The fact that they are doing this is proof they realize they have a major problem with the AV30 DG function.
 
Mike262 said:
Ok the AV30C does not have an "inbuilt" magnetometer. Doesn't matter what serial number it is. Don't believe me? Call Uavionics as ask. What IS inside the later units is something called a magnetic sensor which is not to be confused with a magnetometer. All the fuss is because the vast majority of people who have bought these units and had them installed are completely unable to rely on the DG and they render the aircraft VFR only. Uavionics announced a true magnetometer in development and say it will be available spring next year. The fact that they are doing this is proof they realize they have a major problem with the AV30 DG function.
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You're right that the built-in device is not to be confused with a magnetometer. However, the true magnetometer was planned from the very beginning back before uAvionix acquired Aerovonics.
 
pfarber said:
Except that G5s are randomly rebooting or going out of cal during actual IMC. NTSB has a few reports when pilots in IMC declared an emergency .
Click to expand...

We have 5 of them, never had any trouble with them. Now the GFC500 autopilot pitch trim servo is another story.
 
So much fuss over a DG, it really is nothing more than a quasi-stable manual compass repeater. In the old days we'd start with a paper map onto which we'd draw a line from point A to point B and get a course (think magenta line) Then we'd call and get a report on the wind, which was an estimate, and with that make some calculations on the E6B to get a heading and ground speed. You take off and watch the ground as you pass over the first waypoint and note if you are left or right of it then adjust the calculated heading to correct for the error. Same thing on a VOR, you adjust the heading to keep the needle centered so that your track will match the course.

So nowadays with GPS all of that stuff is already taken care of, you already know your track, course and ground speed. So in regards to heading, if needed for anything, you still have a compass. If you want you can calculate what the actual wind is just to knock the dust off that old E6B.

But I get it, the AV-30 has a DG function so you'd like it to perform at least as well as the old mechanical DG. I just set mine to TRK which is redundant since it's already on the Garmin but it's nice having it integrated like that.
 
Silvaire said:
So much fuss over a DG, it really is nothing more than a quasi-stable manual compass repeater. In the old days we'd start with a paper map onto which we'd draw a line from point A to point B and get a course (think magenta line) Then we'd call and get a report on the wind, which was an estimate, and with that make some calculations on the E6B to get a heading and ground speed. You take off and watch the ground as you pass over the first waypoint and note if you are left or right of it then adjust the calculated heading to correct for the error. Same thing on a VOR, you adjust the heading to keep the needle centered so that your track will match the course.

So nowadays with GPS all of that stuff is already taken care of, you already know your track, course and ground speed. So in regards to heading, if needed for anything, you still have a compass. If you want you can calculate what the actual wind is just to knock the dust off that old E6B.

But I get it, the AV-30 has a DG function so you'd like it to perform at least as well as the old mechanical DG. I just set mine to TRK which is redundant since it's already on the Garmin but it's nice having it integrated like that.
Click to expand...

They're fine if all you want to do is tool around VFR. But many people don't, and in my experience a good mechanical gyro will show you a useable heading for a much longer period of time than the AV30 will. I'm looking forward to seeing how much improvement the magnetometer provides for the stabilization of the heading indication. Hopefully it will make the airplane I have them installed in useable for IFR operations and training again.

The real axe I have to grind with uAvionix and the AV30 is that their sales literature is rather misleading when it comes to the unit's capabilities.
 
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