Autopilot usage an Instrument Checkride

azpilot

azpilot

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azpilot
My instrument checkride is schedule for three weeks from today. I've met all the requirements, passed the knowledge test, and now I'm just working with my CFII on polishing up all of the tasks.

One question I have is about autopilot usage. My airplane has a KAP 140 two axis autopilot. The ACS says I need to know how to use the autopilot. I have to fly at least one approach using the autopilot.

In a typical instrument lesson, I will use the autopilot to help keep the plane flying straight and level during high workload situations (copying clearances, setting up radios, briefing approaches).

Here are my questions.

For those of you that have taken an Instrument Checkride in an airplane with an autopilot, what what kind of checkride experience did you have relative to the autopilot usage. How much did you use the autopilot? Did the examiner "fail" the autopilot at some point during the checkride? If he did "fail" the autopilot, did the autopilot somehow magically start working again at some point?
 
At the time I took my IFR ride a couple years ago I had a Garmin 430W and an STEC 30 with GPSS. I recall I did two of the three approaches using the auto pilot and probably a bit more than half of the total ride. I clearly remember hand flying one VOR approach. The examiner did not attempt to fail the unit. Good luck with your exam!
 
Use it as you normally would until it fails or the examiner says to shut it off for a specific event.

You may or may not get it “fixed” before landing…depends on the examiner.

The examiner may also specify which approach he wants coupled.
 
wow.... seems like cheating!
on one hand I understand needing to know how to use it
but I would have expected it to fail early and fail often on a basic instrument checkride!

My ride was without autopilot in the days pre-GPS so just basic situational awareness was already a heavy mental load... before any procedures or distractions were piled on...flying NDB, VOR, and ILS approaches...partial panel...with an intimidating old WW2 fighter pilot for an examiner...screaming Sir, what are you doing?!?!? as he taps the ADF with his finger trying to break the glass
....ahh, the good old days
oh and I had to walk 5 miles in the snow...uphill just to get to the airport.... ;)

If I were you AZPILOT, I'd plan on knowing how to fly every approach you're likely to do with it
and I'd also plan on it failing 1 minute into the flight

Good luck on the ride...and I hope you can have fun with it! (I don't wish my instrument rides on anyone)
 
I did mine three years ago and everything was hand-flown except for the last approach which used the auto-pilot. He didn’t fail it.
 
Brad W said:
wow.... seems like cheating!
on one hand I understand needing to know how to use it
but I would have expected it to fail early and fail often on a basic instrument checkride!
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I would suspect that the examiner will be evaluating “use” vs “dependence” in determining how often to fail the autopilot.
 
Brad W said:
If I were you AZPILOT, I'd plan on knowing how to fly every approach you're likely to do with it
and I'd also plan on it failing 1 minute into the flight
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Solid advice right there!
 
My DPE expected me to know how to use the AP and part of his ADM expectation was to use if for certain parts of the flight. Obviously one coupled approach, but also things like briefing the next approach. He mentioned that a lot of folks actually have more trouble using the more advanced AP's correctly than they do hand flying. Things that get discussed here all the time, like when to load vs activate, using different modes in the AP (Heading vs Nav).
 
I had my IR checkride this past March and I asked him when/where I can/can't use the AP. He said "use it whenever/wherever you want", "use it like you intend to", "I'll let you know when to turn it off". He basically, while being vectored to final, told me to disengage the AP during one approach. So he'll let you know. I actually failed my own AP during one approach. I was turning final and pressed some damn button (who knows what) and the plane started to turn away from the FAF. Instead of trying to undo whatever I did, I just opted to disengage the AP and handfly the rest. In the debrief he complimented that reaction and said trying to fix something like that, that late in the game, is asking for trouble. So basically he let me fly the AP whenever I wanted and just told me when to disengage it whenever he wanted me hand flying something.
 
You ask 3 questions. Let’s give four responses for the first question (none, a little, a lot, the entire flight). Eliminating #4, we have 3 responses. The other two questions are binary, giving us 12 possible combinations (3x2x2). I have experienced ALL TWELVE of them….

For you more astute probs and stats guys, ya, he failed it, fixed it and I still didn’t use it, I have done ALL TWELVE. Point is, it’s there, gotta be prepared for anything. In my opinion there shouldn’t be shenanigans, and practically aren’t anymore. Know how to use it WELL or get it inoped! Plan to use like you would in real life. If he doesn’t suspect or see over reliance, but still sees confidence with it, you’re good.

NEEDING it to copy a clearance, is over reliance… just sayin…
 
It's not cheating. The AP is a tool to be used to manage your workload but it also adds complexity and presents new opportunities for errors. The examiner will want to see that you can use it, when appropriate, and will recognize when you need to de-automate when the situation is too complex for the automation.
 
My instrument ride was about 3 years ago. I flew it in a Cirrus SR 20 with Perspective (G1000) and a GFC 700 ap. I took off, he had me put my hood on, I told him I was ready to engage the AP, he said ok, don't use it. I flew, he gave me a few things to do. We did unusual attitudes, flew some vectors. Then he said fly this heading, engage the AP do this approach. So I got atis, briefed the approach, made the initial call to ATC and asked for the full approach. He called ATC, gave them the full plan, told me to turn off the AP. I flew two without the Ap and one with. He didn't fail the ap at all, but it wouldn't have mattered. The last approach was a circle to land, when I was on final, he told me I'd pass if I didn't mess up the landing. I told him "Challenge accepted". I landed and that was it.

I would be prepared for anything. I was confident I'd pass when I got to the checkride. I probably was longer than most training, but I was confident and have been confident in my ifr ability since.
 
The examiner doesn't need to do anything sneaky or creative to "fail" the autopilot. He or she likely will just simply tell you to "fly this approach with the autopilot off". I've had quite a few checkrides in aircraft with autopilots, including type ratings in simulators (where they could realistically "fail" the autopilot) and I don't remember anything other than straightforward "use it for this, don't use it for this".
 
Tools said:
You ask 3 questions. Let’s give four responses for the first question (none, a little, a lot, the entire flight). Eliminating #4, we have 3 responses. The other two questions are binary, giving us 12 possible combinations (3x2x2). I have experienced ALL TWELVE of them….

For you more astute probs and stats guys, ya, he failed it, fixed it and I still didn’t use it, I have done ALL TWELVE. Point is, it’s there, gotta be prepared for anything. In my opinion there shouldn’t be shenanigans, and practically aren’t anymore. Know how to use it WELL or get it inoped! Plan to use like you would in real life. If he doesn’t suspect or see over reliance, but still sees confidence with it, you’re good.

NEEDING it to copy a clearance, is over reliance… just sayin…
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I love the breakdown of possible situations. As you point out, I really need to be available for any of the possible outcomes, and know how to handle each situation calmly.
 
I tend to be over dramatic! Confidence and expectation management. That’s the name of this game.
 
Autopilot use is good ADM and timely use is important to show. Good times to use is when you plan on briefing an approach. Showing you know how to use correctly and appropriately can only help. Don’t forget to disengage if you do an approach though if you aren’t used to using you might forget to turn off and not understand why the aircraft is fighting you so much lol
 
RussR said:
The examiner doesn't need to do anything sneaky or creative to "fail" the autopilot. He or she likely will just simply tell you to "fly this approach with the autopilot off". I've had quite a few checkrides in aircraft with autopilots, including type ratings in simulators (where they could realistically "fail" the autopilot) and I don't remember anything other than straightforward "use it for this, don't use it for this".
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That's pretty much my experience. I flew everything using an autopilot far more capable than the OP's KAP140. At some point, the examiner said "here's the next task and please do it by hand instead of using the autopilot". From then on, I never turned it back on but that was my prerogative. If I got to a point where I felt task saturated, I probably would have asked to turn it on while I get things sorted out. Fortunately, it never got to that point.
 
Minor point… but I’m of the philosophy that you shouldn’t ASK to do anything. Think out loud, do as you think… STATE you’re going to put it on. As mentioned, they will usually THEN politely ask you NOT to if they want to see that task without.

But you relayed how you would do it. Important to know when evaluating. I ping on students for asking to turn cross wind (eg), rather than just turning (once to that point). If I don’t like it, I’ll let ya know!
 
All examiners are different, and some will switch things up on one checkride compared to another.
 
TommyG said:
…and some will switch things up on one checkride compared to another.
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[GASP!]:eek:

:D

I was once told there was a gouge for my oral on the Internet somewhere. I’ve never been able to find it, and apparently most of my applicants can’t, either.:rolleyes:
 
I used the autopilot while getting cleaned up after the initial takeoff but hand flew most everything else. In the middle of my partial panel approach, the DPE asks "does the autopilot work without vacuum." I said it did (as well as the HSI he covered up). He says, why don't you use it then. I used it for a bit but it was gusty and the AP was hunting a bit. He told me I could probably do better handflying, so I went back to that.
 
Airbus A330 did single engine approaches AND missed approaches on the autopilot. ULTIMATE lazy! But if you weren’t careful you could get a nasty callous…
 
flyingron said:
In the middle of my partial panel approach, the DPE asks "does the autopilot work without vacuum." I said it did (as well as the HSI he covered up).
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Knowing what it’s connected to and the ins and outs of various failure modes is an important part of autopilot operation that a lot of pilots seem to gloss over. I used to think the pilots I worked with were unique in that regard when I got a lot of ignorant indifference (I don’t know, and I don’t care) in response to questions when I was learning an airplane, but I’ve since realized it’s more the norm.
 
My DPE let me use the AP for flying outbound to get another approach but the approaches themselves were all hand-flown.
 
I only used my AP a few times during training with my CFII. He didn't care if I used it but I chose to hand fly 99% of the time during training. I knew how to use it as I used it a lot when I was by myself flying approaches, taught myself how to use it.

My panel was new in 2019 when I trained and took my instrument check ride. Pretty sure the older examiner was not familer with my new 650gps, GNC255, GTX345 GFC500...etc during my checkride. She never once asked about the AP or anything about my panel.
Pretty sure she was impressed when I setup an ILS on both my gps and on my nav 2 at the same time. I hand flew the whole check ride. I didn't talk to any towers, ATC and it had to be VFR. The clouds cleared this day a 1/2 hour before flight time. 3rd time was the charm for me as I had to cancel twice before because of weather.
Good luck with yours.
 
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I used autopilot frequently in training. I use it frequently in currency. When I go out to do practice approaches, I do each twice. One hand flown and one fully using the autopilot. The LAST thing you want to have happen when you're in IMC is to decide you want to engage the autopilot, or you're already using it, and you get to the point you're saying "what the love is this thing doing?" The autopilot is a control you need currency with as well.
 
flyingron said:
...The LAST thing you want to have happen when you're in IMC is to decide you want to engage the autopilot, or you're already using it, and you get to the point you're saying "what the love is this thing doing?" The autopilot is a control you need currency with as well.
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This is VERY important and the subtly is you need to best understand how your GPS actually talks to your AP. I usually have the AP on for my visual approaches and typically simulating an RNAV. I've had 3 times the AP turned outbound while heading towards the FAF right after I pressed a button. Each time, I just disengaged and hand flew the rest. But afterwards, I got on my GTN trainer at home and simulated what happened and was able to figure out the logic behind it and what NOT to press etc. The point is, the AP can be just as dumb as you are. It's only taking commands from you or the plane. In my case, the GTN was telling it exactly what it was supposed to (after my button press), I just didn't realize the totality of the button press. Now I do.
 
I never did a civilian basic instrument checkride. My IA is from my military time. And none of the aircraft I flew in the military even had an autopilot.

I did do my CFII checkride, but did not use the autopilot at all. I don't even remember if it had one.

Until recently, I had maybe 15 - 20 minutes on autopilot. I joked I had more actual hands on flying time that over 10,000 hour airline pilots did. :D
 
If the aircraft is TAA, then believe you MUST demonstrate autopilot usage on an IR check ride. I took an IR ride in a 182 considered TAA (King moving map + KLN94 + aforementioned KAP140) and absolutely had to demonstrate AP use, as well as know how the killer switch (Mid-Continent GPS/NAV button) could kill you. This was in a semi-integrated plane with an approach GPS and standard NAV/COM as well.

The biggest hassle was getting re-configured for the next approach as the three chosen airports were all within about 10 miles of each other. Ride was done 100% in the system, so asked for a delay vector on the last one to breathe 30 seconds.

In real life fly every other approach coupled. And otherwise use AP in cruise and in high workload environments if it helps free up some neurons. In IMC, one hour by hand followed by one hour on AP.
 
flyingron said:
I used autopilot frequently in training. I use it frequently in currency. When I go out to do practice approaches, I do each twice. One hand flown and one fully using the autopilot. The LAST thing you want to have happen when you're in IMC is to decide you want to engage the autopilot, or you're already using it, and you get to the point you're saying "what the love is this thing doing?" The autopilot is a control you need currency with as well.
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1000RR said:
This is VERY important and the subtly is you need to best understand how your GPS actually talks to your AP. I usually have the AP on for my visual approaches and typically simulating an RNAV. I've had 3 times the AP turned outbound while heading towards the FAF right after I pressed a button. Each time, I just disengaged and hand flew the rest. But afterwards, I got on my GTN trainer at home and simulated what happened and was able to figure out the logic behind it and what NOT to press etc. The point is, the AP can be just as dumb as you are. It's only taking commands from you or the plane. In my case, the GTN was telling it exactly what it was supposed to (after my button press), I just didn't realize the totality of the button press. Now I do.
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So that's the thing about an autopilot, it just does what it's told to do, unless it has failed, which is very rare and generally pretty easy to tell.

While I was training my first instinct if something was awry while coupled, was to disconnect the AP. That is probably one of the dumbest things you can do. It took a few admonishments from my instructor to understand why.

When you disconnect the AP, you are now responsible for not only solving a problem, but you also need to keep the airplane under control, on a heading or turning to an intended direction while maintaining your altitude. Meanwhile you are in a state of confusion as to what is wrong. For the GFC 700, instead of adding this workload by disconnecting it, you hit the heading bug, put the ap in heading mode, change the heading bug to make it turn, if necessary, to stay on course, then take a few seconds to figure out what's wrong. 9 times out of 10 it's operator error. A wrong button pushed, a button not pushed, an hsi in the wrong mode. You can focus almost all your attention to correcting things, in what is usually a time crunch to get it fixed. Once fixed you get it back to a coupled approach, or if you want to just hand fly it, you can turn the ap off then and fly with a clear head.
 
azpilot said:
My instrument checkride is schedule for three weeks from today. . . . ?
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After going to the relevant source material:

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/acs/media/instrument_rating_acs_change_1.pdf

Search the word autopilot, it only appears six times. Relevant to the OP:

"To assist in management of the aircraft during the practical test, the applicant is expected to demonstrate automation management skills by utilizing installed equipment such as autopilot, avionics and systems displays, and/or a flight management system (FMS). The evaluator is expected to test the applicant’s knowledge of the systems that are installed and operative during both the oral and flight portions of the practical test. If the applicant has trained using a class portable EFB to display charts and data, and wishes to use the EFB during the practical test, the applicant is expected to demonstrate appropriate knowledge, risk management, and skill." p. A-15. emphasis added.

"The applicant must accomplish at least two nonprecision approaches in simulated or actual weather conditions. • One must include a procedure turn or, in the case of a GPS-based approach, a Terminal Arrival Area (TAA) procedure. • At least one must be flown without the use of autopilot and without the assistance of radar vectors. The yaw damper and flight director are not considered parts of the autopilot for purposes of this Task. • One is expected to be flown with reference to backup or partial panel instrumentation or navigation display, depending on the aircraft’s instrument avionics configuration, representing the failure mode(s) most realistic for the equipment used." p. A-16 emphasis added.
 
I'm another where the Examiner said I could use the A/P as much as I wanted. I flew the first approach (a VOR-A) coupled but with no GPS-- I was flying behind a G1000 so he zoomed the map all the way out so it was useless and had me turn off the inset map on the PFD. After passing the MAP he failed the PFD and AHRS so no more AP. So the next approach was the same VOR-A but I hand flew it partial panel, circle to land. The 3rd approach (LPV) was a mixture. Initially I was flying coupled, but after passing the IAF and inbound to the FAF he instructed me to decouple and hand fly the remainder of the approach.
 
PaulS said:
So that's the thing about an autopilot, it just does what it's told to do, unless it has failed, which is very rare and generally pretty easy to tell.

While I was training my first instinct if something was awry while coupled, was to disconnect the AP. That is probably one of the dumbest things you can do. It took a few admonishments from my instructor to understand why.

When you disconnect the AP, you are now responsible for not only solving a problem, but you also need to keep the airplane under control, on a heading or turning to an intended direction while maintaining your altitude. Meanwhile you are in a state of confusion as to what is wrong. For the GFC 700, instead of adding this workload by disconnecting it, you hit the heading bug, put the ap in heading mode, change the heading bug to make it turn, if necessary, to stay on course, then take a few seconds to figure out what's wrong. 9 times out of 10 it's operator error. A wrong button pushed, a button not pushed, an hsi in the wrong mode. You can focus almost all your attention to correcting things, in what is usually a time crunch to get it fixed. Once fixed you get it back to a coupled approach, or if you want to just hand fly it, you can turn the ap off then and fly with a clear head.
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I'm not sure I would say disconnecting the AP is the dumbest thing you can do. I'd say the dumbest thing you can do is continue to let the AP do whatever wrong thing it's doing due to your own button pressing while you try and figure out how to correct it. That would NOT be good... But I like what you mentioned later... change the AP to heading mode and at least you're still assisted by the AP which can aid in splitting your attention however necessary. I'll have to keep that in my bag of tricks...in the past, I've just disconnected, ignored the AP the rest of the approach, and hand flew it. Thanks for the tip Paul!
 
I had an autopilot that would begin an uncommanded descent at seemingly random times while in cruise. Turned out a mis-wired relay was picking up a glide slope lobe and the AP was designed such that on reaching glide slope, it would initially set a pre-determined 3 degree down pitch. The initial fix was to make sure no localizer freq was in NAV radio while cruising along. The real fix was to re-wire.
 
1000RR said:
I'm not sure I would say disconnecting the AP is the dumbest thing you can do. I'd say the dumbest thing you can do is continue to let the AP do whatever wrong thing it's doing due to your own button pressing while you try and figure out how to correct it. That would NOT be good... But I like what you mentioned later... change the AP to heading mode and at least you're still assisted by the AP which can aid in splitting your attention however necessary. I'll have to keep that in my bag of tricks...in the past, I've just disconnected, ignored the AP the rest of the approach, and hand flew it. Thanks for the tip Paul!
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One of the keys is to be able to determine when it’s appropriate to just dumb down the autopilot and continue vs when it’s necessary to disengage the autopilot and hand fly. I see a lot of people who resist disengaging for a little longer than I’m comfortable with when the airplane starts wandering off someplace they’re not intending.
 
Steamflyer said:
If the aircraft is TAA, then believe you MUST demonstrate autopilot usage on an IR check ride. I took an IR ride in a 182 considered TAA (King moving map + KLN94 + aforementioned KAP140) and absolutely had to demonstrate AP use, as well as know how the killer switch (Mid-Continent GPS/NAV button) could kill you. This was in a semi-integrated plane with an approach GPS and standard NAV/COM as well.
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That doesn't describe a TAA.
 
MauleSkinner said:
One of the keys is to be able to determine when it’s appropriate to just dumb down the autopilot and continue vs when it’s necessary to disengage the autopilot and hand fly. I see a lot of people who resist disengaging for a little longer than I’m comfortable with when the airplane starts wandering off someplace they’re not intending.
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That makes a lot of sense. I've been one to immediately disengage it, I don't like to make a bad thing worse. But I had honestly not thought about just throwing it into heading mode should I still want some assistance albeit not a GPS or Coupled Approach.
 
flyingron said:
That doesn't describe a TAA.
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At the time it did as it was explained to me. Might have been wrong. Tend not to argue with senior CFII and DPE. Almost 20 years ago for that definition of a Technically Advanced Aircraft.
 
Steamflyer said:
At the time it did as it was explained to me. Might have been wrong. Tend not to argue with senior CFII and DPE. Almost 20 years ago for that definition of a Technically Advanced Aircraft.
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Twenty years ago that was true. It's no any longer. Now it needs to be a PFD (with airspeed/altitude), MFD, plus 2-axis autopilot.
 
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