Audio Panel Upgrade

Flybuddy

Flybuddy

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Flybuddy
Currently have a KMA24 & SPA400 intercom and considering upgrading to a PMA7000BT. This would be a fairly easy install as you can reuse the lower (audio panel) cable (same pinout). Would still have to wire the intercom side. Other option is the PAR200A for about $1000 more but more difficult install. If I did that I could sell my #2 radio (KX155) to make up some of the difference.
Anyone have experience with either of these audio panels?IMG_6375 (4).JPG
 
The PSE units are top of the craft. If the connectors are in good shape, why not save the money and get the 7000?
 
I went with the Garmin 350C and love it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I went from a KMA24 to the PMA8000B and it is so much clearer now. You will like it!
 
Dear Flybuddy, we would be appreciative if you purchased any one of our audio panels.

But since you brought it up, I recommend you take a look at our all-new PAR200B. This is a premier audio controller with the TRIG TY-91L 8.33Khz spacing radio. True Dimensional sound called IntelliAudio(R), an OLED Graphics display that makes using the radio and audio panel downright simple. It also has Bluetooth(R) for the phone and for streaming.

Finally, it would look GREAT on top of your IFD440.

www.ps-engineering.com/PAR200B.shtml

Finally, the install would definitely be more, but in the long term, (IMHO), it would be worth the investment, you'll gain a lot functionality from the functions of the PAR200B.

Thanks for all of the kind words in this thread by the way.

Mark
 
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Way happy with my PS 8000B and Mark's top notch service. No affiliation, just a very satisfied customer.
 
Go with the PSE. Garmin service policy on audio panels borders on the corrupt.
 
Nathan Miller said:
Crap. Just installed Garmin's GMA 345. To what do I have to look forward? :(
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Out of warranty, Garmin only does flat rate repair for things. Meaning no matter what is wrong with it, you are paying one fee. Whether it's a single button that's not functioning or the entire board fried itself. So it has good and bad sides. I believe flat rate on the audio panel is ~$700. Not great, but I've gone from a GMA 340 for many years (which then moved on to a friends airplane and is still going strong) to a 345 (which has now moved on to another friends airplane) and now to a 350c, and I've never had to repair one.
 
Nathan Miller said:
Crap. Just installed Garmin's GMA 345. To what do I have to look forward? :(
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There are 4 things I point out to our customers when comparing the GMA345 to either our PMA8000G or PMA450B. I don't do this in any disrespectful way, GARMIN is an amazing company and has made so many contributions to our community. But to answer your question, here are four items you can look forward to, to the best of my knowledge. The first is you can only hook up one Bluetooth(R) device at a time. Hook up a phone, can't hook up an iPad. The second is that there are 10 secret clubhouse handshakes. While GARMIN provides a very nice laminated card, these functions will probably have to be committed to memory. The third is there is no music distribution per see. You can select what music source everyone hears (Music 1, Music 2, or Bluetooth). There is a DIP switch on the rear of the unit that changes the way the music switch works, but that isn't really clear to me. The last one is a function we introduced in 2014 called "Alternate Intercom Function". When this is on, everyone is on the intercom but the passengers do not hear any radio traffic and when the radio does become active, the crew won't hear the passengers. One thing I find interesting is the GMA345 has something called MEGA BOOST for your music. To me, I think that may not be so wise to use. Mega Boost increases the BASS frequency response and it is the low frequencies that damage hearing. Even more important, if your engine starts to create low-frequency rumble, you might miss that clue because Mega Boost could mask that all-important hint something might be happening.
 
That is my biggest disappointment to-date with the GMA 345 - Only 1 bluetooth connection. I have a Virb camera, receiving audio via BT. Now, I can't also call ATC via BT for my clearance :/
 
Love my PSE8000BT.

As an aside, it's mind boggling why folks will spend thousands and thousands of dollars to install an Aspen, IFD540, modern autopilot and ADSB transponder yet won't use those opportunities when the panel is torn apart to replace one of the most used and critical pieces in the panel (the audio panel). No knock on the OP, as he/she isn't alone in doing it, but for those reading this who are going to do panel upgrades, don't spend all that money on the panel and keep a crappy, old KMA audio panel. .
 
Upgraded my system on one of my airplanes with the 7000 ,worked great I liked it.
 
Go with the PSE. Garmin service policy on xxxxxxxxxxx borders on the corrupt.

fixed that for you ron!
 
I’ve bought two PMA8000BTs in the last 5 years, both still perform flawless, even after I broke one of them by shorting 12 volts to the a mic jack (I think it was). Repair was fast and reasonable. I forget what the cost was but I can look it up if anyone really wants to know.
 
Nathan Miller said:
That is my biggest disappointment to-date with the GMA 345 - Only 1 bluetooth connection. I have a Virb camera, receiving audio via BT. Now, I can't also call ATC via BT for my clearance :/
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Hi Nathan, both the PMA8000G and the PMA450B can stream out to your Virb (either everything the pilot hears or just the com radios) while at the same time use Bluetooth(R) to stream music into your audio panel. That music will also be streamed to the Virb! Or you could use your phone to call for your IFR clearance while still streaming to the Virb.

Not to pile on but... the PMA8000G and PMA450B have flightmate(R). Check this out
http://ps-engineering.com/flightmate.shtml
http://ps-engineering.com/flightmate.shtml

No other panel has this capability. It really is beneficial to hear specific alerts associated with your particular set of avionics. You’ll know exactly what has gone out of limit.
 
Ryan Klems said:
Out of warranty, Garmin only does flat rate repair for things. Meaning no matter what is wrong with it, you are paying one fee. Whether it's a single button that's not functioning or the entire board fried itself. So it has good and bad sides. I believe flat rate on the audio panel is ~$700. Not great, but I've gone from a GMA 340 for many years (which then moved on to a friends airplane and is still going strong) to a 345 (which has now moved on to another friends airplane) and now to a 350c, and I've never had to repair one.
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The price is not the problem. The problem is that they have no expedited service or loaner. If your audio panel takes a dump and you need it to fly (I was based at IAD), there's no way to get it back online overnight. However, Garmin was more than happy to sell me a new panel and FedEx a new one. I still have a new rack and a screwed up GMA that I was exported into buying.

That's the last piece of Garmin crap I'll ever install.
 
I have the pma7000 and love it. Clear, flexible, reliable and easy to work on.
 
flyingron said:
The price is not the problem. The problem is that they have no expedited service or loaner. If your audio panel takes a dump and you need it to fly (I was based at IAD), there's no way to get it back online overnight. However, Garmin was more than happy to sell me a new panel and FedEx a new one. I still have a new rack and a screwed up GMA that I was exported into buying.

That's the last piece of Garmin crap I'll ever install.
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PS Engineering introduced ProSupport more than 20 years ago. If we get a call about a unit that is in warranty, we simply ship out an exchange unit that same day (by 4PM EST) and via next day air at our expense. If the unit is in its second year of warranty, we ask the owner to pay for overnight shipping.

If it is out of warranty, our flat repair fee is $249 and we guarantee that it will be repaired and shipped within 5 business Days. If they desire to get it quickly, we charge a $75 expedite fee and it will be repaired the same day we get it (must arrive at our facility by 12:00 PM EST.)

What about those units we haven’t made for 5, 10, 15, 20 years or more? We still will repair those units. I think our policy is probably the best in the industry. We charge a non-refundable $200 quotation fee. This gets it into our repair station and we determine what is wrong and how long it will take to repair. We then call the customer and tell them how much more it will cost to repair.

The vast majority elect to have their unit repaired. If they don’t, we do have current production units that will slide into the place where the old broken audio panel was.

This out of production policy was created about 10 years ago when I felt a flat repair fee for this discontinued products were not always justifiable. So now we treat every repair individual.

So PS Engineering really is a partner when it comes to long term care of our customers. It’s just one reason we continue to excel in the design, manufacture, and support of our products.
 
Another very happy PMA8000BT user here. This was the very first upgrade I made after I bought the Bonanza in 2012, replacing a Garmin GMA340.

The clarity of voice (and music, too) is fantastic. And the auto-squelch feature just works - which I don't think much about anymore unless, on occasion, I fly a different airplane and fumble with the squelch all the time. To me, PS Engineering is a poster child of small companies that excel in niche market with superior products and great service.

- Martin
 
I opted for the PMA450A when I upgraded from my KMA24. Could get slightly used ones pretty reasonable, others were upgrading from the 450A to 450B's when they came out. I love the LCD screen menu, so much easier to navigate! So easy to set different input modes for pilot, co-plot and crew, plus set different mute modes. I put in a cheap portable SiriusXM radio into aux 1 input, I can have it mute for all for pilot, and never mute passengers. For me there wasn't enough new features in the 450B's to make it worth the cost difference. I also like being able to call ATC with my headset on to get my clearances and report down to close IFR, at my home base(non towered) we can't get ATC on the ground.
 
I added a PMA450B during my recent panel upgrade. Kind of like a might as well thing, "while we are in there". First impressions are excellent. Clear and easy to use. I haven't even scratched the surface of everything it can do. Most of the cost of an audio panel is in the install so why not get the best unit?
 
Walboy said:
I upgraded to a GMA 340 a couple of years ago, I thought I was in heaven. Everything is relative I suppose.

Lots-O-Garmin bashers here.
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Dear Walboy, I for one, do not bash the competition, it makes me look bad. I rather just stick with the facts, which has worked for us for many years.

I have a favor. Would you be willing to slide out your GMA340 and slide in a PMA8000BT and fly with it for a few hours? If you are willing, I will send you a unit with the hope you would write up a no-holds-barred PIREP. You would have to have your mechanic make a logbook entry. Please let me know.

Mark
 
No worries. I was hoping to "entice" you to do a little comparison between the two audio panels. While audio quality is important, it's about functionality. For IFR pilots, PMA8000BT provides the Monitor Function, Digital Recorder, and Bluetooth(R) connectivity for your iPad and Foreflight alerts. When using your phone while on the ground, you can contact ATC for your IFR clearance. This makes your phone your 3rd com, hearing your phone in your headsets makes this function realizable. If you should change your mind, just let me know. Thanks!
 
@Flybuddy
The audio panel is likely the most expensive avionics unit you'll ever replace from a labor perspective. It's connected to nearly everything.

Agree with @mscheuer, If you're considering PSE 7000T... spend a little extra and strongly consider the PSE 8000BT or better yet PSE-450B. The PSE450B is many times the unit of the 7000T and the context sensitive menus make accessing the full feature set much much easier. e.g. no multi-button presses with a cheat sheet to fully access the unit.

I have the 450A and it's stunningly clear, reliable, and connects a cellphone with the integration quality of a high-end automobile.

The built-in USB-c charger port will slowly charge an iPad while in full use.
 
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@mscheuer I just had a 8000B installed and used the phone plugged up to make a call on the ground to try it out. Once I figured out how to give myself side tone it worked great on my end. However the receiving end had a hard time understand me. Is that a normal function or a tweak in the audio panel that can turn up my mic for calls? Or heck completely unrelated to the audio panel all together??
 
simtech said:
@mscheuer I just had a 8000B installed and used the phone plugged up to make a call on the ground to try it out. Once I figured out how to give myself side tone it worked great on my end. However the receiving end had a hard time understand me. Is that a normal function or a tweak in the audio panel that can turn up my mic for calls? Or heck completely unrelated to the audio panel all together??
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Unfortunately iPhones use the 4 circuit plugs, in addition, there is a sense circuit that has to be overridden. We sell a cable that has this modification built into the plug. It’s a bit expensive ($39.95) but these are hand made and is the only way we know how to make the iPhone work through the front panel Jack. Back in 2006 when the PMA8000B was introduced, the flip phones (iPhones didn’t exist) used the jack one-to-one, so no special cable is needed.
 
I will also chime in that I went with the PMA-450B on my panel upgrade, even though I went everything else Garmin. The dual Bluetooth, front USB-C, and intuitive front screen were the selling points for me. My only small wish is that I could use the USB-C to not only charge but to pass audio through as well. In the short amount of time I've been able to use it, it has been awesome and I've only just scratched the surface.
 
NordicDave said:
@Flybuddy
The audio panel is likely the most expensive avionics unit you'll ever replace from a labor perspective. It's connected to nearly everything.

Agree with @mscheuer, If you're considering PSE 7000T... spend a little extra and strongly consider the PSE 8000BT or better yet PSE-450B. The PSE450B is many times the unit of the 7000T and the context sensitive menus make accessing the full feature set much much easier. e.g. no multi-button presses with a cheat sheet to fully access the unit.

I have the 450A and it's stunningly clear, reliable, and connects a cellphone with the integration quality of a high-end automobile.

The built-in USB-c charger port will slowly charge an iPad while in full use.
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Thx, you hit upon the sticky point, I've checked around and the install hassle and/or costs are huge (read this: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/audio-panel-install-cost.99010/) My thoughts were that the 7000BT is a (somewhat) pin compatible unit with the KMA24 and I could wire the intercom side. I've run the schematics and instructions and other than a couple of fuzzy areas it seems doable (It does not list the KMA24 on the compatibility list in the instructions BUT there is a KMA24 section). You also have to buy an install kit ($399) and maybe even getting a pre done harness (not sure) Going to an 8000, a 450 or a PAR200 would all mean big bucks at avionics shop. Of course when you pull your seats and crawl under your panel, the decades of massive wiring does not give you a warm fuzzy. I'm leaning more toward talking myself out of this as everything currently works.
 
Flybuddy said:
Thx, you hit upon the sticky point, I've checked around and the install hassle and/or costs are huge (read this: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/audio-panel-install-cost.99010/) My thoughts were that the 7000BT is a (somewhat) pin compatible unit with the KMA24 and I could wire the intercom side. I've run the schematics and instructions and other than a couple of fuzzy areas it seems doable (It does not list the KMA24 on the compatibility list in the instructions BUT there is a KMA24 section). You also have to buy an install kit ($399) and maybe even getting a pre done harness (not sure) Going to an 8000, a 450 or a PAR200 would all mean big bucks at avionics shop. Of course when you pull your seats and crawl under your panel, the decades of massive wiring does not give you a warm fuzzy. I'm leaning more toward talking myself out of this as everything currently works.
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My advice is as follows: once you're into the project, you're going to find that it won't be THAT much more work to just re-wire the whole thing and put in a new, modern panel with new, stereo jacks. Trying to install one in a patch work fashion will probably just **** you off when something doesn't work, there's buzzing, etc.
 
bradg33 said:
My advice is as follows: once you're into the project, you're going to find that it won't be THAT much more work to just re-wire the whole thing and put in a new, modern panel with new, stereo jacks. Trying to install one in a patch work fashion will probably just **** you off when something doesn't work, there's buzzing, etc.
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That would be my advice, too. The absolute last thing you want is to through a lot of effort for a half-way solution, only to find out later you really want the nicer audio panel - and then start over. Because the audio panel is connected to so many pieces of equipment on the airplane, it really pays off to figure out what you want for the rest of time, and start with that.

- Martin
 
PS Engineering. Great folks. Best in class engineering.
 
Brad and Martin, I can agree with your logic about re-wiring the whole thing but that is a big undertaking that most shops probably won't do. Even on non compatible audio panels they will most likely pull the old connector, use old panel schematic to figure out which wire goes to which pin and then run those wires onto new panel connector. I doubt they would do a lot of extra work by pulling wires off each com, audio jack, nav, etc and do new wiring connector to connector.
 
Flybuddy said:
Brad and Martin, I can agree with your logic about re-wiring the whole thing but that is a big undertaking that most shops probably won't do. Even on non compatible audio panels they will most likely pull the old connector, use old panel schematic to figure out which wire goes to which pin and then run those wires onto new panel connector. I doubt they would do a lot of extra work by pulling wires off each com, audio jack, nav, etc and do new wiring connector to connector.
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A good shop (the kind of shop you want to use) absolutely would replace the wiring. Remember, when you pay a shop to do the work, a good shop will know they own that work, and if things don't work they'll have to fix it. They will not want to re-use wiring.
 
You might be right, but have you ever heard of a quote where they make that distinction?
 
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