Audio Panel Suggestions

Timothy Burchett

Timothy Burchett

Pre-Flight
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Dec 22, 2016
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Tim
I am looking for a recommendation for an audio panned that has separate intercom squelch control for the copilot position and the passengers to install in my Debonair. My wife in the copilot seat is so quiet she needs the squelch all the way up to hear her, but my daughter in the back seat is one of the loudest kids I know, so I need her intercom squelch turned down to keep from hearing every thought she has. Do any intercoms separate copilot and passenger squelch? Thanks.
 
You will get a lot of opinions here...

For me the PS Engineering 450B is the very best audio panel. The OLED display with context sensitive menu keys makes using the depth of the unit easily accessible. No hidden multi-key presses to enable something with a cheat sheet.

Many other pilots who have flow with me comment about the crystal clarity and ability to set intercom and radio volume levels to preference.

Brilliantly streams iPad audio to the panel, along with cell phone calls, and entertainment audio. It's a Swiss army knife of configuration. The bluetooth cell phone connection is second to none. Incoming calls with caller ID show up on the panel with two Menu buttons to answer or ignore. This does not interrupt the BT streaming of the iPad.

The built in USB-C power adapter for iPad's had enough power to use and charge the iPad at the same time.

Amazing unit and amazing factory service. When you call them on the weekends and after hours the call roll over to the leadership teams cell phones.

PMA450A.png
 
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One more for PSengineering
 
Is there anything PS Engineering can or should do to improve on the 450B? Any rumors about a new model in the pipeline?
 
The 450B was just introduced about a year ago and it's a minor feature improvement over the 450A, very minor. The 540A had an option for a second BT streamer and the 540B includes a second BT streamer. A couple of hardwired input jacks can be wired for PAX as well for all models.

With this set-up kids can stream audio for iPad movie or music, wife can stream music, and Dad still has iPad capability.

Both the 540A/B are so damn clear and customizable, not sure what I'd recommend to them for improvements. One thought might be an iPad app to configure it on the ground and store those configs for easy pull up for specialized use cases.

From Aviation Consumer report: There are four possible independent music inputs: Bluetooth one, Bluetooth two, music one and music two (these are hardwired inputs either via cabin input jacks or from a remote music source like Garmin’s GDL69A SXM receiver). As with other PS Engineering products, these inputs can be configured so
the music sources mute with aircraft radio and intercom chatter. This is custom configurable for pilot, copilot and passengers.

Aviation Consumer Review: https://www.ps-engineering.com/docs/AV_CON_Impressive_Audio_Panel.pdf
 
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I’m also a PS Engineering fan but if you have an all Garmin panel, there’s some compelling reasons to use theirs for the voice command gimmick.

Ping @flyingcheesehead for details. He likes his very much.
 
Timothy Burchett said:
I am looking for a recommendation for an audio panned that has separate intercom squelch control for the copilot position and the passengers to install in my Debonair...
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The PS Engineering 450A/B does this automatically:
From Aviation Consumer: "Intercom in the PMA450B uses PS Engineering’s IntelliVox squelch control, which is completely automatic and uses signal processing at each microphone. By sampling voice and ambient noise, the processors open and close the squelch with impressive precision"

This works very well per seating position & mic.
 
I probably vote for the PS Engineering audio panel too, and I have never even seen one.

But I have seen the Garmin audio panels and I do NOT recommend them. I have had a lot of trouble with mine, and when researching the newer models, the complex multiple button sequences were just insane.
 
denverpilot said:
I’m also a PS Engineering fan but if you have an all Garmin panel, there’s some compelling reasons to use theirs for the voice command gimmick.

Ping @flyingcheesehead for details. He likes his very much.
Click to expand...

This. And let me start by saying that I'm also a fan of PS Engineering. They do one thing, and they do it REALLY well - Better than anyone else.

BUT...

We decided to put in a GMA 350c when we did our panel upgrade a couple years ago, because you can give voice commands to your GTN and to the audio panel. So, *IF* you have a Garmin GTN series navigator (most popularly the 650 or 750, but also 625, 635, 725, or 735) then keep reading. If not, just get the PS Engineering and call it a day.

If you have a GTN, the GMA 350c allows you to talk to it. You'll get a "PTC" (Push To Command) button on each yoke, and you merely push that button and say something like "Show Traffic" and boom - the traffic page comes up on the GTN. You no longer have to hit Home and then Traffic to get there. There is a voice command that will take you straight to literally any page in the GTN's user interface. "Show destination airport frequencies" for example.

You also can tune frequencies. "Tune nearest approach" or "tune destination tower" for example. That puts the frequency in the standby, waiting for you to flip it to the active with a touch.

You can ask it to tell you some things as well. "Say ETA" or "Say distance to destination" for example, and the system will talk to you in your headset with the result.

You can control the audio panel itself with commands like "Select Mic One." There are also general commands for the GTN like "Back", "Home", "Zoom In" and "Zoom Out".

Now, I like the GTN, but I'm not a big fan of the Go-Home-Before-Doing-Anything user interface. This audio panel really changes the interaction with the UI. And since, for example, you're jumping straight from the Map to the Terrain page, you can either use the Back voice command or the Back button on the screen to go directly back to the map, which doesn't work when you're going Home first.

So, if you have (or will have) a GTN - Get the GMA 350c! If you don't have the GTN, get the PSE.
 
Call PS (maybe after the first). If you're lucky, you'll speak with Mark Scheuer who is the company's founder. Great guy. (Obviously) extraordinarily knowledgeable at PS's products. He'll be able to respond to your concerns. I have a 450A and like it very much.
 
asicer said:
Is the GMA350c also capable of controlling the GPS175/GNC355/GTX375? Or is it stricly GTN-only?
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To my knowledge, it's only the GTN at this point. I'm not sure exactly how much of the software is in the audio panel and how much is in the GTN, or whether Garmin plans to expand support for it.
 
You all have just put the ribbon on my Christmas. Thank you all for your votes of confidence and PIREPS. I can tell you that there is nothing in our plans for a PMA450B. Frankly, don’t know what we do different.

That doesn’t mean we won’t incorporate new functions from pilot’s feedback. Heck, how do you think we got where we are.

One function that most pilots don’t know the PMA8000G and the PMA450B has is flightmate(R).

You can learn what why this voice annunciator is so special. http://www.ps-engineering.com/flightmate.shtml

Merry Christmas and here’s to having the 2020 mandate past us!

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
Call PS (maybe after the first). If you're lucky, you'll speak with Mark Scheuer who is the company's founder. Great guy. (Obviously) extraordinarily knowledgeable at PS's products. He'll be able to respond to your concerns. I have a 450A and like it very much.
Click to expand...
I’ll be in The office Dec 26th and 27th. Love to talk with you all.
865-988-9800
Mark Scheuer
 
Another happy PSE customer here. I just had a 450A installed, if, like me you don’t need the additional Bluetooth that the 450B provides, you can get a 450A and save some money. 3 of my headsets have Bluetooth, so I really didn’t need the additional Bluetooth channels. So far I love my 450A, still learning it and playing with the settings. But nice to be able have different mute settings for pilot, crew and passengers!
 
If reliability and serviceability is important to you, stay away from Garmin. Garmin left me AOG when their POS audio panel went into kazoo mode. No loaners. No fast turnaround (but we will fedex you a new one if you want to buy it).
 
flyingron said:
If reliability and serviceability is important to you, stay away from Garmin. Garmin left me AOG when their POS audio panel went into kazoo mode. No loaners. No fast turnaround (but we will fedex you a new one if you want to buy it).
Click to expand...

If my GMA340 goes wick-wack, I'd consider getting a PSE slide-in replacement rather than flat rate repair a fairly old unit. So far, no issues though (fingers crossed).
 
I'll just say this, IMHO, our PSupport program is the best in the business. If your new audio panel should fail within the warranty period, we will send out a warranty exchange. If it is out of warranty, we guarantee a 5 working day turn around for $249. If you need same day repair, that'll cost $75 more. We will repair anything that we have made. There isn't a product that we won't support. Sometimes, because of prices of audio panels have dropped dramatically over the years, it may not make financial sense. But we will repair if the customer is fond of their panel.
 
mscheuer said:
I'll just say this, IMHO, our PSupport program is the best in the business. If your new audio panel should fail within the warranty period, we will send out a warranty exchange. If it is out of warranty, we guarantee a 5 working day turn around for $249. If you need same day repair, that'll cost $75 more. We will repair anything that we have made. There isn't a product that we won't support. Sometimes, because of prices of audio panels have dropped dramatically over the years, it may not make financial sense. But we will repair if the customer is fond of their panel.
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I lot of companies could learn from PSE and Mark's singular focus on his customers and product quality. Best decision I made on my panel upgrade. The clarity of the stereo sound is amazing. My radios are are an old KX155 and freshly overhauled 430W by Garmin. Both radios are much clearer with PSE-450A. Intercom is amazing and the auto squelch works as advertised.
 
Not sure what panel it was, but one of the coolest features I have seen was the playback feature. Missed that last radio call on com1. Hold the Com1 button for couple seconds and the audio panel would play back the last transmission.

Anyone know what panel that might have been. Or others that have a similar feature?

Brian
 
brcase said:
Not sure what panel it was, but one of the coolest features I have seen was the playback feature. Missed that last radio call on com1. Hold the Com1 button for couple seconds and the audio panel would play back the last transmission.

Anyone know what panel that might have been. Or others that have a similar feature?

Brian
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That is kind of a pain in the butt because ATC can’t wait for you to play it back before you respond.
 
I also have a ps panel and like it.

To the op's point though, sounds like you have a microphone issue, not an intercom issue. $5 says you need to manually adjust the microphone position on your quiet people to fix the issue.
 
brcase said:
Not sure what panel it was, but one of the coolest features I have seen was the playback feature. Missed that last radio call on com1. Hold the Com1 button for couple seconds and the audio panel would play back the last transmission.

Anyone know what panel that might have been. Or others that have a similar feature?
Click to expand...
PS Engineering PMA450B, PMA8000G (look for panels that have "flightMate")
Garmin GMA345, GMA350c, G1000
Trig TY96/97, TX56/57
 
Greg Bockelman said:
That is kind of a pain in the butt because ATC can’t wait for you to play it back before you respond.
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I can defiantly see your point. Talking with ATC is a live communication. Heck, not long ago a phone call from AK to the lower 48 had a delay. You almost had to count to 5 in your head before speaking again or you would be speaking when the other person was talking.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
That is kind of a pain in the butt because ATC can’t wait for you to play it back before you respond.
Click to expand...

I have the playback wired to a switch right below the PTT on the yoke and it works fantastic for me. Especially with all the weekend warriors making iffy radio calls on CTAF
 
Just FYI, PS Engineering invented the "IRS" or Intercom Recording System in 1992. It was originally part of our stand-alone digital intercom called flightmate(R) http://www.ps-engineering.com/docs/Flightmate_DS.pdf
While way ahead of its time it was expensive ($2795), so it wasn't our most successful product. But it did bring portable digital technology into the cockpit. Not only did it have our "set it forget it" VOX intercom, but it also had a display that would show what Com and message number you were hearing. It was our first experience with Digital Signal Processing, but not our last.
The PMA450 series does that same thing, only better! When you are listening to a playback, the PMA450 series displays on the OLED graphics display, the Com and message number you are hearing. To the best of my knowledge, it is still the only audio panel that has this capability. You can also, in real-time, change the volume of the playback using the audio panel's volume control.
Our new IRS is really smart too. If you're listening to a playback and ATC chimes in, it stops but when you press the play button again (either yoke mounted or front panel) it will repeat that message. You can go back into a total of 8 recordings by pressing and holding the play button, so you can get the message you want to hear.
Finally, if you are currently hearing something that you know you want to playback immediately, press the play button while ATC is live and when ATC goes off the air, that message will instantly play-back again.
I'm really proud of what our team has been able to provide GA pilots for their audio control. And to think it all started in 1983 when I bought an AA-1A that needed an intercom!
 
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mscheuer said:
Just FYI, PS Engineering invented the "IRS" or Intercom Recording System in 1992. It was originally part of our stand-alone digital intercom called flightmate(R) http://www.ps-engineering.com/docs/Flightmate_DS.pdf
While way ahead of its time it was expensive ($2795), so it wasn't our most successful product. But it did bring portable digital technology into the cockpit. Not only did it have our "set it forget it" VOX intercom, but it also had a display that would show what Com and message number you were hearing. It was our first experience with Digital Signal Processing, but not our last.
The PMA450 series does that same thing, only better! When you are listening to a playback, the PMA450 series displays on the OLED graphics display, the Com and message number you are hearing. To the best of my knowledge, it is still the only audio panel that has this capability. You can also, in real-time, change the volume of the playback using the audio panel's volume control.
Our new IRS is really smart too. If you're listening to a playback and ATC chimes in, it stops but when you press the play button again (either yoke mounted or front panel) it will repeat that message. You can go back into a total of 8 recordings by pressing and holding the play button, so you can get the message you want to hear.
Finally, if you are currently hearing something that you know you want to playback immediately, press the play button while ATC is live and when ATC goes off the air, that message will instantly play-back again.
I'm really proud of what our team has been able to provide GA pilots for their audio control. And to think it all started in 1983 when I bought an AA-1A that needed an intercom!
Click to expand...

Wow those are some really cool features I didn't know about
 
Greg Bockelman said:
That is kind of a pain in the butt because ATC can’t wait for you to play it back before you respond.
Click to expand...
It once helped settle an argument with my CFI, and in my favor I might add. :)
 
mscheuer said:
Just FYI, PS Engineering invented the "IRS" or Intercom Recording System in 1992. It was originally part of our stand-alone digital intercom called flightmate(R) http://www.ps-engineering.com/docs/Flightmate_DS.pdf!
Click to expand...

Mark....

Excuse me, buddy, but you sent me a request to include my marker beacon into your audio panel in 1978 or thereabouts. I still have your letter and your sample audio panel in my dead files. You may have "invented" this in '92, but wasn't part of the line. We ALL invented recording systems using cheap digital chips back in those days. Unless you've got a patent number by your name, you were just one of a dozen of us with digital voice recording.

I'm back in the game, Mark, with an audio panel for the homebuilder roughly 1/10 of your price. Complete with a voice recorder.

Best to you and yours,

Jim
 
Hi Jim, no disrespect was meant to at all.

After some research, I found our original 4-page sales brochure and realized I made two errors in my original post: flightmate(R) was first sold in 1988, NOT 1992, and the original price was $795, not $2795.

Jim, I don’t think we had any communications in 1978, I started PS Engineering in 1985 with the aerocom(R). 10 years later we introduced the PMA6000M audio panel with an integrated intercom. (The M in the PMA6000 was for Marker. It was designed by Ron Powell of Narco back in the day). Getting a marker TSO’d took over a year. There was a time when Ron thought it couldn’t be done. But after continued encouragement, he finally produced the marker that passed TSO.

Not all inventions are patented.

I maintain PS Engineering was the first company for GA (Piston powered) to provide a means to digitally record aircraft radio receptions for instant playback. We used the TI320C15 running at 20 Mhz with a 10:1 speech compression. You might remember how expensive memory was back then.

If you have sales literature of your intercom (or any other manufacturer) with a built-in digital recorder for instant playback that was selling in 1988, I’d appreciate seeing it. Not a challenge to you Jim, I’m asking only if I’m under the wrong impression, I need to know.

I have a great amount of respect for you Jim. The volume of articles you’ve written for major aviation magazines and all of your work you’ve done in designing and providing inexpensive audio products for the aviation community is something to be very proud of.

Hope you and your family have a wonderful New Year.

Sincerely,
Mark
 
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Mark ...

That'll teach me to get up at 5 in the morning and put in a 15 hour day. Ah, yes, 1978, 1988, what's ten years between friends? When I started RST back in '73, I remember some German outfit that was selling voice recorders to the kerosene queens, not GA. Agreed, you were the first to do voice recording for the single pistons. For all I remember, the Germans many have been using the old Webcor wire recorder reel-to-reel technology!!

Thanks for the kind words.

Jim
 
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