Attitude Overhaul

NealRomeoGolf

NealRomeoGolf

Final Approach
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The indicator of course. My attitude indicator went belly up over the weekend so I'll be sending it in for overhaul. One thing I never liked much was how poorly it is lit up at night. I assume my lighting is plane based and not instrument based (stupid question, I know). So I'm guessing that when I remove the AI it would give my mechanic opportunity to improve the lighting?

And from reading the forum over the months I believe my best options for overhauling an attitude indicator are AQI, Air Dallas Instruments or Rudy's? And what information does one need when calling a shop for overhaul pricing? My AI is an Edo but without tearing through the logbooks, that's all I know. I'm guessing they need a specific model number?

Yay airplane ownership.... ;)
 
Big endorsement for Air Dallas. We had our AI overhauled with them 8 weeks ago and we are very happy with their service, work and professionalism.
 
You'll need to know the model number of the gyro. I had Rudy's do our autopilot Attitude Indicator just under a year ago (a 52D66 from a century II setup). Price was $525+ shipping (which can be surprisingly expensive), 3 days in their shop.
 
I've been told I need an atitude adjustment before. Didn't know they had overhauls to.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
... So I'm guessing that when I remove the AI it would give my mechanic opportunity to improve the lighting?.../QUOTE]


Is that a Cherokee? If its anything like mine the only lighting you have is the red one overhead. I installed Nulites on all my unlit instruments. Not many other opportunities out there.
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I'm only a Cherokee when the controller isn't paying attention. ;) Mine is an Archer and each instrument hole has its own lighting. Seems to be 2 bulbs per instrument situated at the top. I've never looked behind my panel so I'm not entirely sure. The AI bulbs are definitely dimmer than the rest of the instruments.
 
Lighting is tough to get right, especially if there is a ton of internally lighted equipment from several different manufacturers. You can tune an overly bright one down with resistors but making a dim one bighter isn't as easy lol.
 
bnt83 said:
Lighting is tough to get right, especially if there is a ton of internally lighted equipment from several different manufacturers. You can tune an overly bright one down with resistors but making a dim one bighter isn't as easy lol.
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Maybe another selling point for going the G5 route.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I'm only a Cherokee when the controller isn't paying attention. ;) Mine is an Archer and each instrument hole has its own lighting. Seems to be 2 bulbs per instrument situated at the top. I've never looked behind my panel so I'm not entirely sure. The AI bulbs are definitely dimmer than the rest of the instruments.
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Sorry from your picture I couldn't tell. Anyway, you're lucky with the bulbs already in place, I had nothing at all. Have you tried switching out the bulbs or cleaning the contacts on your AI?
 
I had my AI exchanged at AQI. Looks good and works great. Keeps me level in IMC so I can't complain.

Information needed is brand and part number. I did the exchange just because of time. But I'll use them again, they did my Altimeter as well.

Put in some LED panel lighting and get that luxury Lexus look.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Sorry from your picture I couldn't tell. Anyway, you're lucky with the bulbs already in place, I had nothing at all. Have you tried switching out the bulbs or cleaning the contacts on your AI?
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Haven't worked on the bulbs yet. We'll look at it when we yank out the instrument to send it in.
 
+1 on the LED bulbs for panel lighting. Much better and zero amp draw.

Oh, and the G5 is great!!! But yeah I had to keep my vacuum AI for the AP as well.
 
arkvet said:
+1 on the LED bulbs for panel lighting. Much better and zero amp draw.

Oh, and the G5 is great!!! But yeah I had to keep my vacuum AI for the AP as well.
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Yeah, really tempted on the G5. Just have to prioritize my budget and see where it fits in.
 
Ok, stupid question alert. My A&P is going to take my AI out tomorrow and we'll send it off for overhaul. I'm VFR only and there is no MEL that requires me to fly with an attitude indicator. So no problem to fly with a hole in panel, right? My A&P seemed hesitant about that but can't he just cap off the vacuum line so my DG still works?
 
Have your AI ask the overhauler if they overhaul that specific manufacturer's AI. Sometimes they will get the AI, say they dont overhaul that one and just want to sell you a new one. ITs sort of trick to sell you a new one.
 
Got a quote for my specific model, so should be good there. Good tip.
 
Going to give Rudy a shot. Air Dallas was 33% higher on price.
 
14 CFR §91.213(d) allows certain part 91 operators to fly an aircraft with inoperative instruments or equipment even though the Federal Aviation Regulations generally require that all equipment installed on the aircraft be operative at the time of flight.

Some operators of aircraft, based on the kind of operation or size and type of aircraft are required to have a Minimum Equipment List (MEL) in order to operate the aircraft with inoperative instruments or equipment. However, operators of the following types of aircraft may operate under part 91 without an MEL.

  • Nonturbine-powered small airplanes (12,500 pounds or less maximum certificated takeoff weight) for which a Master Minimum Equipment List (MMEL) has been developed.
  • Nonturbine-powered airplanes for which an MMEL has not been developed.
  • Small rotorcraft (12,500 pounds or less maximum certificated takeoff weight) for which an MMEL has been developed.
  • Rotorcraft for which an MMEL has not been developed.
  • Gliders.
  • Lighter-than-air aircraft.
The inoperative instruments and equipment can not be:

  • part of the VFR-day type certification instruments and equipment prescribed in the airworthiness regulations under which the aircraft was type certificated
  • indicated as required on the aircraft's equipment list
  • indicated as required on the aircraft's Kinds of Operations Equipment List for the kind of flight operation being conducted
  • required by 14 CFR §91.205 or any other rule of 14 CFR part 91 for the specific kind of flight operation being conducted
  • required to be operational by an airworthiness directive
The inoperative instruments and equipment must be removed from the aircraft, the cockpit control placarded, and the maintenance recorded in accordance with 14 CFR §43.9; or deactivated and placarded “Inoperative.” If deactivation of the inoperative instrument or equipment involves maintenance, it must be accomplished and recorded in accordance with 14 CFR part 43.

Finally, a pilot, who is certificated and appropriately rated under 14 CFR part 61, or a person, who is certificated and appropriately rated to perform maintenance on the aircraft, must determine that the inoperative instrument or equipment does not constitute a hazard to the aircraft.
 
@NealRomeoGolf did you get the G5 installed? I have a dead vacuum AI in my Archer and I'm seriously considering the G5 to replace it. Any idea on how many hours for the install? I'm also looking for options to overhaul my existing vacuum gauge. Any recommendations?
 
Kevin16587 said:
@NealRomeoGolf did you get the G5 installed? I have a dead vacuum AI in my Archer and I'm seriously considering the G5 to replace it. Any idea on how many hours for the install? I'm also looking for options to overhaul my existing vacuum gauge. Any recommendations?
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I think the biggest variable in G5 installation is whether or not you need to install a GPS antenna. If you don't have a panel mounted GPS 4XXW/5XXW or GTN series with an available RS232 channel out, you need an antenna.

Also, STC says "circuit protection device for the G5 must be push-pull manually resettable circuit breaker MS26574-5 or identically rated"
 
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Kevin16587 said:
@NealRomeoGolf did you get the G5 installed? I have a dead vacuum AI in my Archer and I'm seriously considering the G5 to replace it. Any idea on how many hours for the install? I'm also looking for options to overhaul my existing vacuum gauge. Any recommendations?
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I'm picking my plane up from the install this morning, actually. You'll get most avionics places to quote you between $3200 and $3500 installed. However, since you have an Archer, it's going to be more. Both @arkvet and I have run into piping problems behind the TC in our Pipers (assuming you want to keep your AI and put it in the turn coordinator spot). The depth of the AI is too deep to put in that slot without re-routing some internals behind it (air vents and something else I can't remember). I went ahead and bit the bullet and had them do the extra work. Added about 15 hours to the install. You should ask up front if your avionics place is comfortable doing that work and don't let them quote you 40 hours like they did to arkvet.

I overhauled my AI with Rudy Aircraft in Rudy, AR. You'll see overhaul prices range from $300 to $1000 depending on what AI you have and whether it runs an autopilot or not. Mine was $600 and it runs a Century 21 autopilot. They had it done in 4 days from receiving the unit.

And as @bnt83 said, you have to have a compatible antenna. I have a WAAS antenna but not a GPS (it runs my ADS-B). If you have a Garmin GPS, they can hook it into that and call it good. For me I had to add an extra antenna.

I'll post some pictures later after I've gotten my plane home.
 
So the biggest variable might be whether or not it will actually fit in the existing attitude indicator position, how much are willing to spend to put it there it doesn't.
 
bnt83 said:
I think the biggest variable in G5 installation is whether or not you need to install a GPS antenna. If you don't have a panel mounted GPS 4XXW/5XXW or GTN series with an available RS232 channel out, you need an antenna.

Also, STC says "circuit protection device for the G5 must be push-pull manually resettable circuit breaker MS26574-5 or identically rated"
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At least with the gps antenna (need or don't need) you know that going in so the price Delta is going to be fairly easy to note. What Neal and I ran into were labor issues when we had to keep the vacuum AI. That difference could mean 6-8 hours labor vs 20-30+ Not something you want to be a surprise!
 
bnt83 said:
So the biggest variable might be whether or not it will actually fit in the existing attitude indicator position, how much are willing to spend to put it there it doesn't.
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Kinda. Actually the G5 will ft anwhere easily. That's not the issue. The problem is if you need keep that vacuum AI and if so where does it go? As neal and I have found out the vacuum AI needs a lot more room than the old T/C.

The guys with an STEC AP that is driven by the T/C just simply pull the vacuum AI and replace with G5. Putting the Vacuum AI into the T/C slot would be optional.
 
My plan is to just stick the experimental one in an empty hole via field approval, probably late this year then add the GAD29 later for the GTN/HSI interface. I could change my mind tho.

I'm very interested to see the GMU magnetic flux detector interface. I wanna know if its gonna be possible to run the GPS signal via RS232 and have the magnetic flux detector connected to the same G5.
 
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Here is the final result. It's a handy little gadget for sure.

20170407_131857_hidden number.jpg

I also took my plane from a 2 place intercom to a 4 place by pulling out the old King KMA24 and adding a PSE PMA7000BT. I got rid of the ugly old ashtrays in the back seats and we turned them into the mic jack spot.

20170407_133305.jpg
 
Thanks for the info. It's definitely looking like the G5 is the way I will go. Every shop I've called really likes them too. My plane currently does not have a GPS antenna to tie into, so that adds to the install complexity. However, one shop I called said the G5 could be installed without the antenna (I was told they have installed several without the external antenna and have not heard of any issues using only the internal antenna).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I see you have the EI CGR-30P..... how you liking it?
 
Kevin16587 said:
Thanks for the info. It's definitely looking like the G5 is the way I will go. Every shop I've called really likes them too. My plane currently does not have a GPS antenna to tie into, so that adds to the install complexity. However, one shop I called said the G5 could be installed without the antenna (I was told they have installed several without the external antenna and have not heard of any issues using only the internal antenna).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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True for the experimental version put in home built aircraft but be prepared for backpedaling, use of the internal antenna is not an approved configuration in the STC.
 
Man that looks sharp! Hmm....My DG is needing OH this annual...might be a good time to jump to this. Between this and the Tru-Track id be set...though id still put in a third of the cost of my plane but hey that's okay.
 
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