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cyclepro

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Cyclepro
I know there is a thread about atp already so I apologize if this bothers anyone. I'm currently getting my ppl through a flight school at my local airport (kpwk) and its been about a year and a half. November of 12 and im about to solo hopefully by the end of the month.
I was grounded for about 6 months 2 by parents 4 because my instructor left. After I finish getting my ppl im thinking about going to atp to do the fast track program to get the rest of my ratings. I know some of you don't like it because it's high premiums for low hour instructors, but continuing at my current school would probably take me 4 years and cost more than a house.
So has anyone gone through a program either at atp or similar and if so, do you think you are a less capable pilot or not as well rounded as others who either went to college or did it without a fast track program.

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Cycle - the ATP is worthless for getting a corporate or airline job without the multi and turbine time. You will not get those expensive airplane hours through any fast track program I ever heard of. At best it will get you a job as a part time CFI flying clapped out 1970's Skyhawks.

My best advice is to go to a university that has a flight program and come out with a degree and an ATP.
UND (North Dakota) and EMU (Michigan) are two programs that come to mind. There are others.
Your age and impatience will cause you to snort and ignore me (shrug) but that is the way of youth since Plato complained about them.
 
Dr. O said:
My best advice is to go to a university that has a flight program and come out with a degree and an ATP.
UND (North Dakota) and EMU (Michigan) are two programs that come to mind. There are others.
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For the schools where you are assured of the best aviation programs, start with those accredited by AABI, of which UND is one but EMU is not. AABI accreditation is recognized as the standard for non-engineering aviation programs by the Council for Higher Education Accreditation just like AACSB for business programs and ABET for engineering. See http://www.chea.org/Directories/special.asp for more on that.
 
I was accepted to und and western Michigan, I didn't know what to choose and everyone here said don't go to college for aviation it's just more money.

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For what it is worth, Ron was a part of a University Aviation program. So I think he is a little biased toward a university program.

In the interests of full disclosure, I too am a product of an aviation program, but I could have gotten where I am now without it. I could have majored in anything else and gotten my aviation experience through electives. I then would have had a backup plan if my aviation aspirations did not work out.

Your mileage may vary, but you don't need to attend a high priced aviation program to succeed in aviation.

But that is my opinion and worth every penny you spent on it.;)
 
My plan was to do atp this year, flight instruct after I finish and then go to college for computer science after.

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Don't go to ATP. You want to take the time to get experience. Experience is worth WAY more than the ratings you have. Do not rush it.

I go to FIT (Florida Tech). We have a really good aviation program where you can take 6 month to get done or 6 years to get done, it depends on you. You also have the option of an airline pathway program AND the flight school and flight electives are open to all majors at the student rate. (For all those aviation university haters out there - real degree and real training can come in one place). I suggest you do it like this or on the side while you are in college. It will help you keep a good pace because believe me you don't realize what a challenge all those checkrides will be if you try to rush through them. You should have confidence in your certificate, which you won't get by rushing.

Also, your current school does not reflect the normal hang ups people come by. 4 months of grounding because a CFI left is ridiculous. They are not treating you like a customer. Switch schools.

Lastly, I don't "dislike" ATP, but getting all of your ratings there is a bad idea. I can see people using it to finish up or get through one certificate, and maybe some of the instructor courses, but doing it for all is a bad idea. I know really good pilots have come out of there, but I now a bunch that have slipped through the cracks as well. Any school has these people, but not in the amount I have seen from ATP.
 
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I hire pilots with and without degrees. Some went to aviation universities, some went to fast track flight schools and some went through a local FBO to achieve their ratings. I haven't seen any difference between any of them in their knowledge or flying abilities. Just ones with degrees seem seem to be the prima donna pilots.

As for myself, I didn't start flight training until I was 38. I went with a fast track flight school. I found that total immersion helped me retain the information better, plus flying everyday, sometimes twice a day help me earn my rating quicker. But that is just me, everyone is different.

I need to add that our new hires are in the 3000 hour range with at least 1000 multi. We fly the C-421c for air medical transport. ATP rating or at least the written test done is required.
 
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Zeldman said:
I hire pilots with and without degrees. Some went to aviation universities, some went to fast track flight schools and some went through a local FBO to achieve their ratings. I haven't seen any difference between any of them in their knowledge or flying abilities. Just ones with degrees seem seem to be the prima donna pilots.

As for myself, I didn't start flight training until I was 38. I went with a fast track flight school. I found that total immersion helped me retain the information better, plus flying everyday, sometimes twice a day help me earn my rating quicker. But that is just me, everyone is different.

I need to add that our new hires are in the 3000 hour range with at least 1000 multi. We fly the C-421c for air medical transport. ATP rating or at least the written test done is required.
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Well most jobs today require degrees. I don't associate a degree with flying abilities or knowledge... Usually they don't have anything to do with flying at all! Not really sure you should discourage a degree though, should flying go south at least you can get a new career.

Also, I don't have anything against fast track - Like I said, you can go through the ratings just as fast in a college program. Heck, you can do it quickly at a Part 61 school too if you try. I flew twice a day (at least once a day all year in college and agree with the full immersion).

No two people are the same. Two flight instructors at my school came from ATP. One is awesome and knows so much, the other got fired the first month from student complaints and checkride failures. That is the same no matter where you go or come from. Just remember: Make sure you LEARN wherever you go. That is my big message here.
 
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Zeldman said:
I need to add that our new hires are in the 3000 hour range with at least 1000 multi. We fly the C-421c for air medical transport. ATP rating or at least the written test done is required.
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Considering that quite a few of the Regionals are offering $5000 signing bonuses you must be paying awful good to get folks with that kind of experience to come fly a 421.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Considering that quite a few of the Regionals are offering $5000 signing bonuses you must be paying awful good to get folks with that kind of experience to come fly a 421.
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Wow... having to pay a signing bonus to get people in the company. That would be a big red warning flag to me. Our last new hire came off a 757. He has 3 young children and decided that quality of life with them was better than any airline. He has been here two years and just bought a house. He told me he has no plans to leave anythime soon.

My short experience in regionals, back in 2000, I would have made better money as a door greeter at WalMart. Glad to hear they are getting paid better, but it's not all about pay.

As a side note, we don't fly from ILS to ILS. We fly to small rural airports that don't have any services, some don't have approaches, so airline experience isn't always the best experience to have for us, and the prima dona guys usually wet their pants and leave. :lol:

And yes, for part 135 we pay well.
 
I figure in the end everyone has to pass the same test held to the same standards. I'm the type of person that needs the repetitive drilled into my head. Atp seems to fit that. Ill have something to fall back on if flying goes south. Ill already have my ppl before I start so I won't be doing all my ratings there.

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Zeldman said:
Wow... having to pay a signing bonus to get people in the company. That would be a big red warning flag to me. Our last new hire came off a 757. He has 3 young children and decided that quality of life with them was better than any airline. He has been here two years and just bought a house. He told me he has no plans to leave anythime soon.

My short experience in regionals, back in 2000, I would have made better money as a door greeter at WalMart. Glad to hear they are getting paid better, but it's not all about pay.

As a side note, we don't fly from ILS to ILS. We fly to small rural airports that don't have any services, some don't have approaches, so airline experience isn't always the best experience to have for us, and the prima dona guys usually wet their pants and leave. :lol:

And yes, for part 135 we pay well.
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Wow, sounds pretty macho. Do you have to redo the weight balance to account for your obviously enormous testicles ? We have 757 trips that are out and back too if you want to be home each night. 737 as well.

Been plenty of times I wish I was going into a rural American airport instead of a non-radar VOR B into a mountainous Central American **** hole or having to divert into Pakistan because the fog is too heavy in New Delhi. You're right though, I would pee my pants if I thought ten years from now I'd still be clanking around in a Cessna 400 series.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Wow, sounds pretty macho. Do you have to redo the weight balance to account for your obviously enormous testicles ? We have 757 trips that are out and back too if you want to be home each night. 737 as well.

Been plenty of times I wish I was going into a rural American airport instead of a non-radar VOR B into a mountainous Central American **** hole or having to divert into Pakistan because the fog is too heavy in New Delhi. You're right though, I would pee my pants if I thought ten years from now I'd still be clanking around in a Cessna 400 series.
Click to expand...

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Zeldman said:
Wow... having to pay a signing bonus to get people in the company. That would be a big red warning flag to me. Our last new hire came off a 757. He has 3 young children and decided that quality of life with them was better than any airline. He has been here two years and just bought a house. He told me he has no plans to leave anythime soon.

My short experience in regionals, back in 2000, I would have made better money as a door greeter at WalMart. Glad to hear they are getting paid better, but it's not all about pay.

As a side note, we don't fly from ILS to ILS. We fly to small rural airports that don't have any services, some don't have approaches, so airline experience isn't always the best experience to have for us, and the prima dona guys usually wet their pants and leave. :lol:

And yes, for part 135 we pay well.
Click to expand...

Where are your bases?
 
Zeldman said:
Wow... having to pay a signing bonus to get people in the company. That would be a big red warning flag to me. Our last new hire came off a 757. He has 3 young children and decided that quality of life with them was better than any airline. He has been here two years and just bought a house. He told me he has no plans to leave anythime soon.

My short experience in regionals, back in 2000, I would have made better money as a door greeter at WalMart. Glad to hear they are getting paid better, but it's not all about pay.

As a side note, we don't fly from ILS to ILS. We fly to small rural airports that don't have any services, some don't have approaches, so airline experience isn't always the best experience to have for us, and the prima dona guys usually wet their pants and leave. :lol:

And yes, for part 135 we pay well.
Click to expand...

That would be a nice change of pace for former airline guys. We all start out flying to and from little rural, no perk airports... Why not go back to it! That's all you ever do if all you got is a VFR PPL.
 
TrevorHN47 said:
Well most jobs today require degrees. Not really sure you should discourage a degree though, should flying go south at least you can get a new career.
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I never said don't get a degree. I happen to have one myself, but I never went into my degree field.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Wow, sounds pretty macho. Do you have to redo the weight balance to account for your obviously enormous testicles ? We have 757 trips that are out and back too if you want to be home each night. 737 as well.
Click to expand...

Not yet, can you teach me how?
 
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