ATITPPA origin finally discovered?

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Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
"Make frequent radio calls. Request any traffic in the vicinity of the airport identify themselves so that you are aware of each other’s presence."

maybe I missed a discussion on 'where' this came from but this is from the NBAA site, a pdf of Best Practices.

Oh, please let's not discuss the benefit/abomination that it is. Please.
Just wanted to share, and maybe discuss it's origin.

Is it not true that the AIM still recommends against this? I was against the AIM micromanaging us in this way but I was not in particularly in favor of it's use and I've never uttered it.
 

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  • NBAAStandardOperatingProceduresP6.pdf
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When Great Lakes Regional used to fly into Gallup, the pilot operating the radio would always end each radio call with ''Any Traffic In The Area Please Respond''...

I would respond, then ask if they are a student pilot on a cross country. Man, that would pee off those guys.!!
 
Zeldman said:
When Great Lakes Regional used to fly into Gallup, the pilot operating the radio would always end each radio call with ''Any Traffic In The Area Please Respond''...

I would respond, then ask if they are a student pilot on a cross country. Man, that would pee off those guys.!!
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It was actually a collaboration between GLA and UND that started it.
 
MauleSkinner said:
It was actually a collaboration between GLA and UND that started it.
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I often wondered if this was a regional thing that grew. When did the AIM first reference the phrase and not to use it?
 
Tools said:
Of course it’s dumb. I always ask those NOT on the frequency to respond, in the interest of thoroughness.

Well, what i mean is I would ask that if I had a radio.
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just pretend to key the mic and say the words out loud.... and then go back to making engine/prop noises...

:)
 
I think the phrase arose when FBOs no longer provided airport advisories on Unicom, probably because of liability concerns. People were used to being notified of "active" runway and traffic in the area. Using the common frequency to try to get that same information was the consequence.
 
dbahn said:
I think the phrase arose when FBOs no longer provided airport advisories on Unicom, probably because of liability concerns. People were used to being notified of "active" runway and traffic in the area. Using the common frequency to try to get that same information was the consequence.
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I was told it was a cultural accommodation for a training contract that GLA and UND had.
 
What's the "GLA"?

I do remember when FBOs readily provided traffic information, but I don't know when that stopped or if was just a gradual change, but the pilot calling in would typically ask, "what's your active?" and would usually get a response to include known traffic at the field.
 
Full disclosure. If the radio has been really dead and someone does this, I've been known to respond "buy low, sell high?" I mean, they asked to be advised.
 
Would it be ok if instead of ATITPPA I asked for a gouge report?
 
Sorry, I know, breaking the rules. But honestly, the origin is most likely unknown. Who would admit to it?
 
I started flying in 1993. AWOS existed, but it was much rarer than it is now. It was commonplace to call unicom 10 miles out and ask for an airport advisory. Typically someone in the FBO would glance at the wind sock, or look at the wind monitor readout and say something like "winds favoring 34, no reported traffic" or "traffic using 16, you've got a cessna and a cub in the pattern". As AWOS became more ubiquitous, people atopped asking for airport advisories. I understand some FBOs stopped doing them for liability reasons, but I don't recall ever getting turned down for a advisory, I just remember not doing them after a while.

With fast moving business aircraft that are coming off a frequency change from ATC, they don't have a lot of time to monitor the frequency and wait for someone for pipe up, so it actually makes some sense for them to ping others in the pattern for a quick situational report. It's when the junior flight school CFIs started emulating the charter pilots by uttering that dreaded phrase that things started getting out of control. A dozen flight school ATITPPA got old real quick. The AIM admonition against the phrase was added around 2007 I believe.
 
Brad Z said:
I started flying in 1993. AWOS existed, but it was much rarer than it is now. It was commonplace to call unicom 10 miles out and ask for an airport advisory. Typically someone in the FBO would glance at the wind sock, or look at the wind monitor readout and say something like "winds favoring 34, no reported traffic" or "traffic using 16, you've got a cessna and a cub in the pattern". As AWOS became more ubiquitous, people atopped asking for airport advisories. I understand some FBOs stopped doing them for liability reasons, but I don't recall ever getting turned down for a advisory, I just remember not doing them after a while.

With fast moving business aircraft that are coming off a frequency change from ATC, they don't have a lot of time to monitor the frequency and wait for someone for pipe up, so it actually makes some sense for them to ping others in the pattern for a quick situational report. It's when the junior flight school CFIs started emulating the charter pilots by uttering that dreaded phrase that things started getting out of control. A dozen flight school ATITPPA got old real quick. The AIM admonition against the phrase was added around 2007 I believe.
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This seems totally plausible. I actually have gotten an advisory from an FBO in the last couple years, upon my initial call, they responded with traffic and weather.
 
I'm not sure where I stand on this.
If I'm flying into an uncontrolled airspace I want to know if anyone is lurking in the area
On the other hand, this area has a lot of airfields, and most of them are on 122.800. On a clear day I can hear them in a 50 mile circle around me, and they don't always identify to what field they are turning final.
 
How about using color of the plane? Was flying last night and a white Cessna called he was on downwind. It was dark out, how the hell you think I can see the color of your plane. And the white Cessna following the other 3 white Cessna any other time?
 
Shepherd said:
If I'm flying into an uncontrolled airspace I want to know if anyone is lurking in the area.
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The idea is that if people self-announce their position (AIM guidance) you WILL know if anyone is lurking in the area, except for NORDO aircraft, who will NEVER advise that they're in the area.
 
dbahn said:
The idea is that if people self-announce their position (AIM guidance) you WILL know if anyone is lurking in the area, except for NORDO aircraft, who will NEVER advise that they're in the area.
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Maybe we should use, "All NORDO aircraft in the pattern please advise."
 
Shepherd said:
If I'm flying into an uncontrolled airspace I want to know if anyone is lurking in the area.
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Isn't that why you made a radio call in the first place. Isn't it just expected that other traffic in the area will also communicate? The idiot bombing around the pattern making calls but not actually listening isn't going to change just because you add a lot of extra words to your radio call.
 
I heard a guy make no less than 6 calls coming in to our airport last weekend while I was in the hangar asking what runway was being used. There wasn't much time between them for anyone to even answer. There were no other airplanes around.
 
Recently I’ve heard something even more annoying : “Taking the active for immediate departure.” Followed by lining up and sitting there while setting power, running a checklist and eventually rolling.
 
Shepherd said:
I'm not sure where I stand on this.
If I'm flying into an uncontrolled airspace I want to know if anyone is lurking in the area
On the other hand, this area has a lot of airfields, and most of them are on 122.800. On a clear day I can hear them in a 50 mile circle around me, and they don't always identify to what field they are turning final.
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I'm not on the fence about this.

atitppa.png
 
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