benyflyguy
En-Route
From a ATC standpoint what is the protocol for an aircraft that didn’t close IFR flight plan into an uncontrolled field?
ATC protocol for unclosed flight plan
- Thread starter benyflyguy
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,597
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
You mean failing to cancel IFR? They’ll call the FBO or get another aircraft to confirm they’re on the ground. If that doesn’t turn up anything, 30 minutes after loss of comms / radar, ATC will issue an alert notice for a suspected overdue aircraft.
drummer4468
Pre-takeoff checklist
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2020
- Messages
- 306
- Display Name
Display name:
drummer4468
Nothing like being 40mins into your post-flight drive home, when the phone rings and your stomach drops out from under you at the realization that you never closed your flight plan.
I did it with VFR once, but it's worse with IFR because that airspace is still gonna be shut down until you cancel. It'll sure **** off a lot of pilots trying to get into that field after you. Then there's the cost of them initiating search and rescue if they can't get in touch with you. Always include your cell # in the flight plan.
I did it with VFR once, but it's worse with IFR because that airspace is still gonna be shut down until you cancel. It'll sure **** off a lot of pilots trying to get into that field after you. Then there's the cost of them initiating search and rescue if they can't get in touch with you. Always include your cell # in the flight plan.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
10−3−1. OVERDUE AIRCRAFT/OTHER SITUATIONS
a. Consider an aircraft to be overdue and initiate the procedures stated in this section to issue an ALNOT when neither communications nor radar contact can be established and 30 minutes have passed since:
NOTE−
The procedures in this section also apply to an aircraft referred to as “missing” or “unreported.”
1. Its ETA over a specified or compulsory reporting point or at a clearance limit in your area.
2. Its clearance void time.
3. A VFR or IFR aircraft arriving at an airport not served by an air traffic control tower or flight service station fails to cancel a flight plan after receiving instructions on how to cancel.
NOTE−
If you have reason to believe that an aircraft is overdue prior to 30 minutes, take the appropriate action immediately.
10−4−1. TRAFFIC RESTRICTIONS
IFR traffic which could be affected by an overdue or unreported aircraft must be restricted or suspended unless radar separation is used. The facility responsible must restrict or suspend IFR traffic for a period of 30 minutes following the applicable time listed in subparas a through e:
a. The time at which approach clearance was delivered to the pilot.
b. The EFC time delivered to the pilot.
c. The arrival time over the NAVAID serving the
destination airport.
d. The current estimate, either the control facility’s or the pilot’s, whichever is later, at:
1. The appropriate en route NAVAID or fix, and
2. The NAVAID serving the destination airport. e. The release time and, if issued, the clearance
void time.
10−4−3. TRAFFIC RESUMPTION
After the 30−minute traffic suspension period has expired, resume normal air traffic control if the operators or pilots of other aircraft concur. This concurrence must be maintained for a period of 30 minutes after the suspension period has expired.
Last edited:
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Or the restaurant on the airport where there is no FBO. Did that once. Waitress said, he’s here.
Last edited:
Max Trescott had an interesting story regarding this a few months ago....I believe it's in this podcast: https://aviationnewstalk.com/tag/closing-ifr-flight-plan/
Basically a Cirrus pilot forgot to close his flight plan, and max got called as he's a prominent CSIP and knows a lot of the owners in the area. If I remember correctly atc called the sheriff who found the plane on the ramp. They eventually tracked down the pilot and issued a deviation.
My understanding is that they close the airspace for 30m after your expected arrival. If they don't hear from you they will issue clearances into the airport "at your own risk", and contact the fbo, airport manager, and local police/fire. If the airplane isn't found CAP gets tasked with a search.
@Radar Contact have you or Mrs. radar contact dealt with a pilot who forgot to cancel (or worse)?
Basically a Cirrus pilot forgot to close his flight plan, and max got called as he's a prominent CSIP and knows a lot of the owners in the area. If I remember correctly atc called the sheriff who found the plane on the ramp. They eventually tracked down the pilot and issued a deviation.
My understanding is that they close the airspace for 30m after your expected arrival. If they don't hear from you they will issue clearances into the airport "at your own risk", and contact the fbo, airport manager, and local police/fire. If the airplane isn't found CAP gets tasked with a search.
@Radar Contact have you or Mrs. radar contact dealt with a pilot who forgot to cancel (or worse)?
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
You get a phone call. It happened to me for a plane I rent, somehow I had ended up being listed as the owner. A female supervisor from Portland approach called me and asked if I had forgotten to cancel. I told her I haven't been flying. She said she needed to figure this out quickly or she was going to have call the police for a search. I gave here the number of the rental place. Then I remembered the owner, and sent him a text. Turns out it was bad radio coverage where he was, he thought they had acknowledged his cancellation. The supervisor was taking this very seriously when I spoke with her.
I can tell you that as the "airport manager" I have gotten the call. I've also been overflying airports and had center ask me to give a call on the Unicom for them and see if the guy was on the ground.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,597
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
You really only get in trouble if you forget to cancel your IFR at a towered field. 
benyflyguy
En-Route
Welp, I’ll fess up. I did this a couple of weeks ago. IFR field. Non-towered. Not busy. I typically cancel in the air. But when night I cancel on the ground in case I have to do a go around for deer on the runway ( has happened before). Landed, got distracted talking to hangar buddy about something that happened at the airport I just left. 3 hours later maybe I get a call, from my fiend and fellow club member asking if closed flight plan. I call the tower I was talking with and apologize. Told that they sent state police to airport plane is in hangar so they couldn’t find it. They take my name and number.
so the ATC never called me. My number was on the flight plan. They called airport manager who didn’t recognize our flight plane name until he got a third call about and called my friend. So they didn’t sent out chopper but apparently they were getting ready to.
So two weeks later I get the expected call from the FSDO. Was very nice. Told him what happened and it was on me. He emailed me some stuff to read and review prior to next talk. We talked a week later and fortunately this fell under some compliance program without any violation issued. Made some changes to my checklist and backup note in my tach log. As he stated this is usually a mistake you only make once.
so the ATC never called me. My number was on the flight plan. They called airport manager who didn’t recognize our flight plane name until he got a third call about and called my friend. So they didn’t sent out chopper but apparently they were getting ready to.
So two weeks later I get the expected call from the FSDO. Was very nice. Told him what happened and it was on me. He emailed me some stuff to read and review prior to next talk. We talked a week later and fortunately this fell under some compliance program without any violation issued. Made some changes to my checklist and backup note in my tach log. As he stated this is usually a mistake you only make once.
Here's my experience with this. Sorry if it's too long. My steps I followed:
1. Issue an ALNOT (alert notice). This is a message sent through Flight Data to all facilities 100NM either side of centerline of the route seeking information on the flight. The AFRCC (Air Force Rescue Coordination Center) will not get involved until an ALNOT is issued. If you wait until later, it delays their SAR activities which is not a good thing.
2. Call the airport manager to see if he/she knows if the flight has landed. At smaller airports, it is common for the manager to have to drive to the airport. Sometimes they are out of town.
3. If there are no results with #2, contact law enforcement. It could be city police, the sherriff, or once it was the highway patrol. Try to educate them on what you are looking for (a single engine propeller airplane with N12345 painted on the side). Keep in mind, you're talking to the dispatcher, hoping that they relay the request to the officer accurately.
4. While waiting for #2 or #3, contact Flight Service and ask them for flight plan info, especially the pilot's name and phone number. Call the pilot's number and 9 times out of 10 it will go to VM, leave a message.
5. Look up the owner of the aircraft. Lots of times it's a corporation, but once I did have luck in getting info after Googling the corporate entity and calling a number or two listed for the company.
6. If nothing else has worked, try to find a home phone number for the pilot. This is the ABSOLUTE last thing I wanted to do, because the phone call went something like, "I'm with the FAA and we haven't heard from John Doe and we're trying to see if you've talked to him in the last hour. We're pretty sure nothing's wrong, but we need to get in touch with him." Family members tend to get very concerned when hearing this, so it's something to avoid if possible.
Keep in mind, we had to do this with both IFR and VFR aircraft. If you are receiving VFR F/F and decide you want to terminate the service, make sure you hear an acknowledgement from the controller. Again, sorry it's such a long post.
1. Issue an ALNOT (alert notice). This is a message sent through Flight Data to all facilities 100NM either side of centerline of the route seeking information on the flight. The AFRCC (Air Force Rescue Coordination Center) will not get involved until an ALNOT is issued. If you wait until later, it delays their SAR activities which is not a good thing.
2. Call the airport manager to see if he/she knows if the flight has landed. At smaller airports, it is common for the manager to have to drive to the airport. Sometimes they are out of town.
3. If there are no results with #2, contact law enforcement. It could be city police, the sherriff, or once it was the highway patrol. Try to educate them on what you are looking for (a single engine propeller airplane with N12345 painted on the side). Keep in mind, you're talking to the dispatcher, hoping that they relay the request to the officer accurately.
4. While waiting for #2 or #3, contact Flight Service and ask them for flight plan info, especially the pilot's name and phone number. Call the pilot's number and 9 times out of 10 it will go to VM, leave a message.
5. Look up the owner of the aircraft. Lots of times it's a corporation, but once I did have luck in getting info after Googling the corporate entity and calling a number or two listed for the company.
6. If nothing else has worked, try to find a home phone number for the pilot. This is the ABSOLUTE last thing I wanted to do, because the phone call went something like, "I'm with the FAA and we haven't heard from John Doe and we're trying to see if you've talked to him in the last hour. We're pretty sure nothing's wrong, but we need to get in touch with him." Family members tend to get very concerned when hearing this, so it's something to avoid if possible.
Keep in mind, we had to do this with both IFR and VFR aircraft. If you are receiving VFR F/F and decide you want to terminate the service, make sure you hear an acknowledgement from the controller. Again, sorry it's such a long post.
tspear
En-Route
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2010
- Messages
- 3,587
- Display Name
Display name:
Timothy
I had a VFR flight plan plus flight following last week from Utah to Wyoming since I was going through the Rockies I figured I might lose radio coverage. I filed the night before, when I was expecting a small tailwind. Had a small headwind though.
Opened the plan just before run up. Was left waiting for ten minutes for traffic... So I landed in WY almost 30 minutes late per the flight plan.
Just after I pull up to the self service fuel pump, I have not even stopped the engine yet. My phone rings, caller ID says something like MTN AFB. I thinking oh sh** what did I do for the Air Force to call me. Answer the phone, cannot hear it. Yell at the guy just a sec, kill the engine.
He asked to speak to me, verified everything was fine, and finished with if I forgot to close the flight plan. I said no, did not get a chance, I just landed as he could hear. He replied, yes and he can see via flightaware.com I had flight following and per ATC landed safe. But we are required to ask the question.
Would be nice if the FAA somehow integrated flight following with a VFR flight plan.
Tim
Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
Opened the plan just before run up. Was left waiting for ten minutes for traffic... So I landed in WY almost 30 minutes late per the flight plan.
Just after I pull up to the self service fuel pump, I have not even stopped the engine yet. My phone rings, caller ID says something like MTN AFB. I thinking oh sh** what did I do for the Air Force to call me. Answer the phone, cannot hear it. Yell at the guy just a sec, kill the engine.
He asked to speak to me, verified everything was fine, and finished with if I forgot to close the flight plan. I said no, did not get a chance, I just landed as he could hear. He replied, yes and he can see via flightaware.com I had flight following and per ATC landed safe. But we are required to ask the question.
Would be nice if the FAA somehow integrated flight following with a VFR flight plan.
Tim
Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
As the airport "manager" (well it is my phone that rings when you call the airport number), I've been on the receiving end of this a couple of times. Also, I've been overflying airports and ATC has asked me to make a call on the CTAF for them to see if the guy was down safe. I had that happen to me once when I lost a handoff in VFR FF as well. By the time I got to my destination, people were calling me.
This is why I stopped doing VFR flight plans. Had the same thing happen to me.
I forgot to close a VFR flight plan years ago when I was a student pilot. Called the FSS in a panic a few hours later. The briefer was real easygoing, "It's all right son, nobody's looking for you." It was a big flight school (Parks College) at a towered field, no doubt they just called the tower and confirmed I was back, and no doubt they were used to it with so many young student pilots.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,597
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
The problem with integrating VFR flight plans with FF is that not everyone who files, requests FF. Also, plenty of pilots file and never depart. IFRs are required to be sent to ATC because they’re required to get a clearance / seperation. In order to do that, ATC needs that strip. They don’t need a VFR strip.
The second problem which relates to your situation, is that just because you’re getting FF, doesn’t mean SAR will be initiated if you go down. There could be situations where an aircraft hasn’t filed but yet is getting FF. They get terminated 10 miles out from their destination and 5 miles out, crash. ATC has no idea that a crash has occurred and FSS has no idea because the pilot didn’t file. If they had filed, then FSS would have initiated SAR procedures.
tspear
En-Route
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2010
- Messages
- 3,587
- Display Name
Display name:
Timothy
@Velocity173
Hmm... I should have explained better. If you file a VFR flight plan, and you activate it, and you get flight following; then the ATC system should update the VFR Flight plan with current route information and schedule. That is all I was stipulating. To many other conditions, such as you mention, for tight integration to handle effectively without a lot of complexity.
Tim
Hmm... I should have explained better. If you file a VFR flight plan, and you activate it, and you get flight following; then the ATC system should update the VFR Flight plan with current route information and schedule. That is all I was stipulating. To many other conditions, such as you mention, for tight integration to handle effectively without a lot of complexity.
Tim
John Collins
En-Route
Tim,
Your case is a good reason to call FSS while enroute and update your ETA. You can amend a VFR flight plan after it is activated and before it is closed by calling FSS on the radio.
John Collins
En-Route
Tim, you can request ATC to update your VFR flight plan and they will normally relay the new ETA for you to FSS if you are receiving FF. Otherwise, they don't have a clue. They don't know if you filed a VFR flight plan and that you activated it or when, and don't know what you put in your ETE. They also don't have your name or contact information.
tspear
En-Route
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2010
- Messages
- 3,587
- Display Name
Display name:
Timothy
Good point. Did not think of it. I am pretty sure I have had exactly two flights outside of training in the last decade where I went under VFR rules instead of IFR. Both on this trip, the IFR MEAs would have had me sucking O2
Tim
John Collins
En-Route
Although you may file your Name and phone number on an IFR flight plan, this information is not provided to ATC. See the note on the ICAO flight plan form that states "Supplementary Information (not to be transmitted in FPL messages)". In the old days, everyone filed through FSS and ATC would call FSS for the contact information, but now many service providers transmit IFR flight plans directly to the relevant center. The data in the ICAO flight plan form, field 19 is not transmitted to ATC. It contains your endurance, people on board, emergency radios, survival equipment, dingy information, colors of aircraft, equipment remarks, and PIC information. Unless you include your contact phone number in field 18 remarks field, ATC will not have direct access to your phone number. ATC has to determine who sent the flight plan and either contact that company or use a special message protocol to the company to obtain the field 19 data. ATC is not yet trained on how to do this, but there is much information informally provided to ATC and some data specialist know how to do this. With ForeFlight, the system will respond to a request from ATC for the field 19 data and phone numbers are formatted along with the PIC name. Not all flight plan filing systems support the protocol. ATC also has a 24/7 phone number they can use to contact ForeFlight if a plane goes missing if the flight plan was filed through ForeFlight.
Piper18O
Pre-takeoff checklist
In 2014, I flew to the Bahamas on an international ICAO IFR flight plan, landing at Rock Sound, Eleuthera island. (untowered) When on about a one mile final, I canceled IFR. The Nassau controller acknowledged IFR cancelation received, I landed and assumed I was done. In the middle of the night, about 12 hours later, I woke up with a sick feeling that because I was on an international flight plan, that maybe just canceling IFR would not close my flight plan like it would in the United States, and that I needed to do that by phone after landing. In a panic, I called Miami, I think, and explained my situation and asked if there was a problem and if my flight plan had been closed. They checked, and said that no search and rescue had been initiated, and that appeared to be okay. I never heard anything more after that, so I guess they closed my flight plan when I canceled. If there are any Controllers that would want to weigh in on this I'd love to hear what they thought of my ordeal.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 15,597
- Display Name
Display name:
Velocity173
Ok, I see what you’re saying. The ATC computer tied into the FSS computer and update your ETA. Only way to do it currently is for ATC to manually call FSS on the landline. Unless you tell them, they have no clue if you’re running late or not.
benyflyguy
En-Route
Thanks. That’s helpful. I ended up having two lovely conversations with the local FSDO that ended with no action, improved checklist with backup reminder in tach log. I did use foreflight and will update my contact into in remarks section. Hopefully never need in future though like the FSDO said this usually falls under “you’ll only make this mistake once”.
John Collins
En-Route
Nassau would have closed your IFR flight plan as soon as you cancelled with them.
Piper18O
Pre-takeoff checklist
That was my thinking at the time. What made me question myself, was that customs would be involved, and that I suppose that once I canceled, I could have skipped landing and gone to another airport that did not have customs in the Bahama's, thus avoiding customs. That was the nightmare I woke up to, and that is why I wasn't sure if a phone call was still necessary after landing.
You stopped using the system because the thing that was supposed to happen , the thing you are RELYING upon to happen in case you did have an incident, did happen?
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Think you meant INREQ, not ALNOT in #1. How past is past you were at a Center. Not pertinent to this, just wondering.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
The technology is there. You can program a computer to do just about anything. It would require a lot of processing power though. Maybe enough to slow other things down enough that it wouldn’t be viable.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
And while you are there, give a Position Report. It narrows down the search area if they gotta come lookin for you. They’ll probably ask when you amend the ETA, but if they don’t, go ahead and do it. Or give a PIREP. Anything that says where you were at what time.
Last edited:
I retired 3 years ago. If an aircraft was overdue, or there was a simultaneous unexpected loss of radar/radio contact, we issued an ALNOT. An ALNOT gets the AFRCC involved. Honestly, I cannot recall issuing an INREQ during my career. If your aircraft is possibly down, more people looking for you is better than less.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Gotcha. Anyway, welcome to the joint. There are a couple active controllers here, Tower and TRACON. I’m the only one I know of with Center experience, but that was almost 20 years ago. Hope ya stick around.
Yes.
Thank you for the welcome!