ATC loopholes

masloki

masloki

Pattern Altitude
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Nunya
Just wondering what pro-tips are out there to improve your inflight experience. Such as, if you depart Wisconsin anything IFR southbound in a non-turbine, you can’t get service from Chicago approach. But, if you file from a south-of-Chicago airport, and can vfr it, you can pick up in the air. Still need to try a north side airport.

What other hacks are out there?
 
What do you mean you can’t get service for IFR from Chicago? Did you mean if it’s not IFR?
 
ATC for 30 years. My advice is don't be scared to request whatever may help. 95% of the time requests can easily be approved. And always be friendly! ATC hates smart asses.
 
Salty said:
What do you mean you can’t get service for IFR from Chicago? Did you mean if it’s not IFR?
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All routings to/from Wisconsin for single engine piston go around Chicago approach airspace. You can overfly Lake Michigan or Rockford but you won’t get within 50 miles of O’Hare on an IFR flight plan.
 
We had a letter of agreement with A80 (Atlanta TRACON) that would allow overflights on V18 or V97 at a specific altitude. Things have changed (V18 has been eliminated due to MON). Perhaps C90 has a set of routes that are similar. If you haven't already, you may want to call the facility and ask.
 
masloki said:
Just wondering what pro-tips are out there to improve your inflight experience. Such as, if you depart Wisconsin anything IFR southbound in a non-turbine, you can’t get service from Chicago approach. But, if you file from a south-of-Chicago airport, and can vfr it, you can pick up in the air. Still need to try a north side airport.

What other hacks are out there?
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Go VFR and over the Bravo.
 
Good ideas for Chicago. What about other areas or in general?
 
CLT approach will almost always give you a transition over the top of CLT at 4500/5500. a real passenger pleaser.
 
masloki said:
Just wondering what pro-tips are out there to improve your inflight experience. Such as, if you depart Wisconsin anything IFR southbound in a non-turbine, you can’t get service from Chicago approach. But, if you file from a south-of-Chicago airport, and can vfr it, you can pick up in the air. Still need to try a north side airport.

What other hacks are out there?
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Get a girlfriend with a sultry voice and let her do the talking
 
Geez. Always hear horror stories of dealing with the west coast CA bravos and Chicago. We are spoiled here in NE with Philly and NY- typically pretty accommodating- I think.
 
I thought for sure we’d get over the top headed to RR… haha I think they designed T265 just for you ;)

Since our trip, I’ve studied IFR routes out of PWK, and many go over ORD. Perhaps the solution is to fly to PWK first, then file with a SID from there?
 
ME: Chicago, is there any altitude that will avoid me having to go to the KELSI intersection?
C90: Let me check... long pause... no.
ME: OK, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to climb up 500 feet, cancel IFR, and you'll give me VFR flight following to Oshkosh.
C90: We can do that.
 
flyingron said:
ME: Chicago, is there any altitude that will avoid me having to go to the KELSI intersection?
C90: Let me check... long pause... no.
ME: OK, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to climb up 500 feet, cancel IFR, and you'll give me VFR flight following to Oshkosh.
C90: We can do that.
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@Martin Pauly has a good video about Chicago Tracon and as I recall covers that exact scenario

 
That's a different thing. One time I was blasting up just outside the class bravo at 10,500. They had to hold both MGW and ORD departures to the east at 9000 to separate them from me. I've never understood why having me on my own at 10,500 was a better idea than giving me a hard altitude at let's say 3000 that would allow departures to go over me. Amusingly one MD80 didn't get the altitude restriction. I saw him suddenly descend. "Hey, I just got a TCAS RA." "Oh, yeah, there's a Navion there at 10,5" I pointed out that I had the traffic in sight continuosly.

IFR you go to KELSI (30 miles west of O'Hare) or way the hell out into middle of the lake.
 
masloki said:
All routings to/from Wisconsin for single engine piston go around Chicago approach airspace. You can overfly Lake Michigan or Rockford but you won’t get within 50 miles of O’Hare on an IFR flight plan.
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File a flight plan to PWK. File a flight plan FROM PWK. When you get close to PWK, cancel, and open up the new one.
 
EdFred said:
File a flight plan to PWK. File a flight plan FROM PWK. When you get close to PWK, cancel, and open up the new one.
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or just divert
 
EdFred said:
File a flight plan to PWK. File a flight plan FROM PWK. When you get close to PWK, cancel, and open up the new one.
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There’s a little more to it than that. The only way to open an IFR Flight Plan is to get a Clearance. The folk who give said Clearance may have some different ideas about just how well that’s going to work.
 
luvflyin said:
There’s a little more to it than that. The only way to open an IFR Flight Plan is to get a Clearance. The folk who give said Clearance may have some different ideas about just how well that’s going to work.
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Well (outside of Bravo airspace) I have done just that. I went missed (botched forecast) and on the missed, opened up my new flight plan. So go missed on the visual, and request the new plan. :D

Plus you're already in the Bravo, now they stuck with you.
 
EdFred said:
Well (outside of Bravo airspace) I have done just that. I went missed (botched forecast) and on the missed, opened up my new flight plan. So go missed on the visual, and request the new plan. :D

Plus you're already in the Bravo, now they stuck with you.
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Yeah, you’d just be another departure off PWK then if missing Approach. That’s way different than the “…When you get close to PWK, cancel, and open up the new one…” you started this out with. If you did it off of a Go Around off of a Visual Approach they may fall for it, they may not. Are you talking about you let them know what you wanted before starting the Approach. Or just doing it? Paging @Radar Contact. How do you think this maybe might work out
 
Instead of flying an approach to an airport you don't want to land at, would it work to just change your destination once you got in the general vicinity?
 
Well what I usually do is file for GYY and then go VFR through chicagoland. They still asked me if I wanted to go direct KELSI coming from Indiana.
I still remember the time I was heading up to Oshkosh (I go up early for the show).

27K: Looks like OSH is IFR, can I get a clearance from you or do I have to file with FSS.
MKE: <audible sigh> (like it's starting already). Are you rated and equipped?
27K: Affirmative
MKE: Ok, cleared direct Oshkosh. Maintain 3000 expect the VOR 9 approach.
27K: How about RNAV 9.
MKE: OK, expect that.
 
Palmpilot said:
Instead of flying an approach to an airport you don't want to land at, would it work to just change your destination once you got in the general vicinity?
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Sure. Except when it doesn’t. You live in a pretty busy piece of sky. Whadda ya think the odds are of playing that card there and they make a hole for you in the SFO flow?
 
luvflyin said:
Sure. Except when it doesn’t. You live in a pretty busy piece of sky. Whadda ya think the odds are of playing that card there and they make a hole for you in the SFO flow?
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My understanding of the complaint about the Chicago area is that they don't even issue bravo clearances that don't interfere with the airline flows. I haven't encountered that in the SFO area.
 
Palmpilot said:
My understanding of the complaint about the Chicago area is that they don't even issue bravo clearances that don't interfere with the airline flows. I haven't encountered that in the SFO area.
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It wasn’t Bravo Clearances being talked about. It was IFR Clearances and the scenario that started in post # 19.
 
luvflyin said:
It wasn’t Bravo Clearances being talked about. It was IFR Clearances and the scenario that started in post # 19.
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Oops, my bad. Since I am based under the SFO bravo, I've never needed an IFR clearance through it other than departing from or arriving to an airport beneath it.
 
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