At a crossroads in the hobby

orange

orange

Line Up and Wait
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Orange
I have my PPL since 2015. I flew about 30-40 hours per year in the first 3 years. But my last flight was in August 2018. I just lost the urge to fly. How many Hudson flights can you take? I wanted to take longer flights, even overnights, but then when looking at the costs, it became costs prohibitive for a flight more than a couple of hours each way, very easy to reach $1000 bill for a relatively short flight. Normally, it wasn't an issue but i built a new house starting in the fall, so I needed to be tighter with the frivolous spending. Also, the flight school I was renting from frowned upon long rentals and overnights because they are a busy school and needed the planes. Eventually, stopped renting altogether due to very heavy student need for their planes.

The urge to fly is still there just not very strong. But now, later this week, I'm moving about 7 miles east of KABE- Lehigh Valley Airport in PA. I did some brief research and see there a couple of flights schools there, but the only thing I saw was 1 school that rented Diamonds. I have never flown a plane with a stick control, don't know how I would like it.

I know some of you have posted on my thread in the past about flight school, I'll have to go search it out when I get some free time once the move is all settled.

My issue is that if I don't pick up the flying now, it'll be too long and I'll lose the urge for good. I know people stop for years and go back but I don't think i can just pick it up against after 10 years. Or would want to. At least if I go back now, there will be new places to see, not that same NYC Bravo triangle.

Any advice/suggestions?
 
Go fly! Some of my favorite flying was in a da20. The stick will take you all of 1 minute to transition to. The slipperier airframe may take a bit more if you are used to cessnas like I was.
 
If you don't wanna fly, then don't. I sense that you might be looking for some magic advice to reignite your desire. I don't know that such advice exists. You either have it or you don't and sounds like you don't.

I will say this though. Renting from an FBO is about the worst possible to way to do recreational flying there is IME. Non-owner or for profit flying clubs tend to be better. Non-profit or member owned flying clubs tend to be better still (cheaper rates, better availability, better quality). Small partnerships can also be very good. Might be worth seeing if any of those options exist before you pack it in.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
I will say this though. Renting from an FBO is about the worst possible to way to do recreational flying there is IME. Non-owner or for profit flying clubs tend to be better. Non-profit or member owned flying clubs tend to be better still (cheaper rates, better availability, better quality). Small partnerships can also be very good. Might be worth seeing if any of those options exist before you pack it in.
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QFT.
 
Look into 22N.
Smaller field. I think they do rentals and have a small School too. I’m just north of ya at KHZL.
 
orange said:
....but then when looking at the costs, it became costs prohibitive for a flight more than a couple of hours each way, very easy to reach $1000 bill for a relatively short flight....
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Take what I say with a grain of salt because I am not a pilot, but that is understandable. I have started either ground school or lessons a couple of times in my life, but I couldn't get past the expense of continuing. And in reading about others' experiences on here, I shake my head at how much it costs. Having said that, I still hope to be able to fly someday.

If there is any way you can swing it financially, I would encourage you to stay active as a pilot. Maybe the change in scenery and the local area to fly in will reignite your passion to fly.
 
orange said:
Any advice/suggestions?
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You are in charge. Do what you want to do. Don't do what you don't want to do. I've flown 3700 hours over the last 43 years. To me, it was more than a hobby and I made it a priority. Many have a different order of priorities.
 
If costs are a major factor look for a glider club. It's considerably cheaper. And frankly, you learn to be a better pilot.
 
I feel for you man. Flying has always been my first hobby and i do it passionately. I was held back somewhat because of cost for awhile, but i never lost the desire to fly. Do you have a specific fear related to flying? If so take a pilot buddy and go fly facing that fear head on, you will soon gain confidence. As far as money is concerned - we all pretty much have money for the things we want to do, whether that be flying or something else. There are certainly various ways to fly, some more economical and some less. I finally bought my own plane and while there are costs of ownership the fact is I fly more and the money hasn't been an issue. The plane is available when I want it and I don't have to worry who's flying it and what hidden issues may exist due to the previous flight.

Maybe this helps and maybe it doesn't but I hope that in your journey you will do what is best for you. If flying is not for you than that's OK, find your passion and pursue it!

I wish you the best of luck!
 
Hi.
It is not unusual to go through some periods like you do. The important thing is to keep trying to stay active, the longer you go without flying the less likely it will be to maintain currency and at some point you may want o get back into it and it will be a lot more difficult.
You may want to try a smaller airport, find some people that have the same interest, split the costs, do flyins, be safety pilot, find a CFI locally and ask them if other pilots he / she knows have the same interest.
 
I stopped flying for a few years before coming back.

I was tired of renting airplanes and having to bring them back at a specific time because the plane was booked for another customer. So I always ended up doing a quick round trip to a not too distant airfield, or flying the scenic tour of Montreal. That got boring very quickly.

Rentals always were a pain in the neck for me. I tend to decide on Friday evening or Saturday morning that I want to go fly. So of course when I woke up to a bright sunny Saturday morning and gave a call to the school 50 gazillion pilots had already booked all available airplanes and I could not fly.

Also, the time it took for the school to hand me the paperwork and then make me pay after the flight added an extra hour to the experience.

I came back to flying, thanks to a pilot friend who encouraged me to do so. I knew I wanted my own airplane, so I could take off and go whenever I felt like it. I ended up purchasing a 1999 DA20-C1 for 40K$ usd and put about 20k$ into it to make it up to my standards. I love the handling of the DA20-C1. At 120 knots and 3.5 hours endurance it opens up a lot of destinations where I would have had to stop for fuel en route with an older C172 or Cherokee.

You are an aviator and that's part of who you are. I would advise you to find a small airfield with an active pilot community. Soon enough you will be offered rides in various airplanes, and then you can decide what you like best. And soon enough you will be offered to either buy time on airplanes, or to become a partner in one. Being a 1/2, 1/3 or 1/4 partner in an cheap VFR airplane is a great way to affordable flying. And the maintenance and upkeep is split between the partners so it becomes very affordable.
 
Find somewhere else to rent. There are groups that are more open to multi-day rentals.

At only 30-40 hrs/year I don't suggest buying, even in a partnership; especially since the cost is high for you. The exception may be with a 8-way partnership in a 172 or similar plane. That could get your costs down and 40 hrs/year might be fine for a set-up like that. I've flown in partnerships with 3 or 4 people flying 80-100 hr/year and we had very few scheduling conflicts over several years.

If it just doesn't fit your budget and time right now, focus on other things. Then come back to flying later if the desire comes back.
 
orange said:
I just lost the urge to fly.
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The ultimate doom of many private pilots. You start losing that initial thrill of flying and the satisfaction.. it becomes to feel like a job, but you don't get paid, instead you spend TONS of money.. and you no longer really feel like going, then get rusty, then eventually stop flying, don't renew your medical.. and flying just becomes something cool you did once

Basically happened to me back around 2009.. living in Mass and renting either a PA28 or C172 there just wasn't that much else to do after a certain point. And with the traffic, etc., flying became a whole day event.. 1 hr drive to airport, 1 hr drive back, dodgy weather, etc., and you find yourself clocking in 1-4 hrs / month. Every now and then you go with 2 or 3 friends to MVY for a day but you do that what, once, twice a year?

We're all different, but what changed for me was several fold.. I picked flying back up in 2016 and logged somewhere between 120-150 hrs annually now
1.) Moved to California, the different landscape and scenery here and access to cool places like Napa / Grand Canyon / Death Valley / Santa Barbara / Palm Springs / Big Bear / Catalina, etc., created a new set of cool places to check out

2.) Financial situation dramatically improved, so there was less guilt spending $$ on flying

3.) Found an excellent club with a huge fleet, low rates, and flexible rules on scheduling, taking planes, overnight, etc.

4.) Found and joined a local pilot club, 3/5 of my current close friends I know from there. They also plan a fly out once or twice a quarter, those are always cool to go with 30 or so people and a couple planes somewhere. They do a mixture of short day trips, and multi day overnight camping tripds

5.) decided to get my instrument rating, that was a new challenge and something to work towards

6.) I got unusually lucky with access to a seriously bad-ass plane that means destinations even 600-700 nm away are reasonable, so now I could explore places like Telluride, Mammoth Lakes, Lake Tahoe, etc., now I have a bucket list of airports to visit

7.) My personal situation evolved, so it was time to get back to grass-roots-Tantalum and focus on myself and what made me happy.. which, even when it got boring, was always aviation

**But, I haven't actually flown in a couple weeks.. so what HASN'T changed is I still don't get the urge to just fly in a circle for 1 hr and burn money.. the *only* flying I do now is either for IFR currency or for a destination.. for instance my next flight is up to Kernville and Yosemite this coming weekend.. but if that wasn't on the calendar then I may not go again for a few more weeks
 
Some more objective and less(sorta) philosophical ones:
orange said:
My issue is that if I don't pick up the flying now, it'll be too long and I'll lose the urge for good.
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-I don't think so.. anyone who goes through the steps and money to earn their PPL always has it in their blood. Some never go back for time and money reasons, but I've yet to meet someone, even someone who hasn't flown in 30 years, who doesn't miss it. So you'll always have the urge. On the flip side, forcing it now might just make you even more bored or resentful of it.. distance may make the heart grow fonder?

orange said:
Also, the flight school I was renting from frowned upon long rentals and overnights because they are a busy school and needed the planes
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THIS is the deathnell killer for most people. The coolest part of flying is taking "your" plane 300 nm somewhere for a few days
-this is where, for the right mission, aircraft ownership might make sense. I mentioned above I found a cool club, but even there renting was sometimes a challenge and there were some daily Hobbs minimums. You can find a lot of "nice" airplanes for $60K or less... basically the price of a nice new car. While that does introduce costs, and I wouldn't recommend for someone with a waning urge to fly, I would recommend it for people who state onerous club rules as their reason for flying less. There is something really cool about just driving up the airport whenever you want to fly and not worrying about who rented it last, if it's available, etc.

orange said:
I have never flown a plane with a stick control, don't know how I would like it
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I used to be an aggressive yoke lobbyist and thought Airbus sucked for going to a "joystick" - but actually I find the stick more intuitive.. aircraft fly in dynamic three dimensional plane (pun), but a yoke forces you to derive that into up/down and left/right. I find the stick now to be much more intuitive and "natural" and most people I talk to say the same. HOWEVER, I don't really like how Diamond has it sticking up between your legs. What the TTx and Cirrus have on the left, and others out there, is, in my mind, the optimum "feels natural" arrangement. Your hand just rests on the door sill and you can really fly it with your finger tips. I would give the Diamond a shot, at least for an intro flight.. if for nothing else it would be different from what you're used to and would have a cool novelty factor to it
 
Consider ultralights. Inexpensive, towable, no FAA rigmarole, as close to being a bird as you can get, and you can fix most problems yourself using parts you purchased at Tractor Supply.





Be careful during raptor mating seasons. They frown on invaders.

Rich
 
First, look for a flying club or shared ownership. Cheaper flying, can be a lot less hassle than renting. Ask around, a lot of clubs don't really advertise and may be hard to find just by using Google.

Second, if you can't find a good flying club or partnership, you might think about forming one. That's what I had to do; there were zero LSA options around where I live. I wasn't able to find anyone who would commit to partnering up to buy a plane, but once I had the airplane I found a co-owner pretty easily. We didn't form a club, but we are thinking about adding a third owner. Find a plane you can afford to buy, and just let it be known you're open to sharing. It's a lot easier to own a plane when you're splitting the costs with another person, or a couple of other people. We figure our hourly operating cost at a little under $35 wet, including engine reserve. Sure, it will be higher for something guzzling 100LL, but flying doesn't have to be all that expensive.

And yes, you'll need to do some research, structure the ownership right, and have a very specific and detailed operating agreement that covers who flies when, who pays what, what happens when someone wants out, and so on. It's been done before, it's not rocket surgery.
 
I doubt very much I would have ever finished my PPL if it hadn't been for a friend of mine who owned a plane; after the first 14 hours of instruction and plane rental, the very real world costs of finishing my ticket became scarily apparent. Friend said take a few lessons in his plane, then buy in if I wanted to. Did. That was about 15 years ago. I'm sole owner now, and I'm not a rich guy... never made six figures/yr in my life. Owning the plane is an expense, but it's the good kind... the more I fly, the CHEAPER it is to own per hour, so that in and of itself is great incentive to get out and up. Plus, the freedom to have access to the plane whenever I want it is huge. I DO understand the waning interest in going up for pattern practice or to fly over the same places over and over. USE it for transportation... go places over night, for the weekend, whatever... then that practice work you do has meaning again.

If the OP really does like to fly, look into buying a cheap plane or finding a partnership or small club. If, on the other hand, flying hasn't turned out to be as enjoyable or thrilling as you thought it would, there is NO shame or harm in walking away and saying, "OK, did that.... cross that off my list." That's fine, too.
 
Dana said:
Aerobatics, gliders, antiques, experimentals, ultralights, bush planes, most things are more interesting (and cheaper!) than rented Cessnas.
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There, fixed it.
 
What @DaleB said (club, partnership, buy).

I bought 2 years ago for the exact reasons you stated.
 
I think before we advise just "Buy a plane!" there needs to be a mission established of some sort. That mission can be just flying around beautiful scenic PA and enjoying the views, doing $100 hamburgers, things like that. An old taildragger could be a great answer to that and a lot of fun to fly. Or maybe gliders, as suggested.

Some people don't like boring holes in the sky for the sake of doing so and want to travel with an airplane, in which case an old taildragger or a glider is a bad option. So really the question is what kind of flying truly scratches the itch as opposed to just "anything in the sky is better than nothing in the sky."

If the issue is just the hassle of actually renting the airplane, scheduling it, flying, etc., then yes ownership or a club is a good option to consider. If it's something else, maybe try doing some other things with flying and see if some of those are more enjoyable and renew the passion.

Something I love about flying is that I'm always learning. In close to 12 years since my first lesson I've owned or been in charge of 4 different airplanes, each with new challenges and peculiarities to learn. Add in there another dozen or so aircraft types I've flown, having been all over the continent, etc. For me, the learning is what keeps it fun.
 
orange said:
Any advice/suggestions?
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Since you're asking on a pilot's forum, Freud would likely say you secretly really really want to fly. So go fly! :)

I completely sympathize with the rental hassles. I've been dealing with the same thing myself and I'm hoping to buy something soon. I'd suggest you buy and fly whatever you can afford to own, whether individually or as a part-owner. Cherokee, 172, heck, even an old Cub or Luscombe that can be flown whenever the urge strikes will likely suit you better than a rental.
 
By the way,.... Nothing says it's an either/or thing. You can buy something to fly regularly for spur of the moment Saturday morning pancake hops and local buzzing around, and still rent something bigger when you need to take more people or baggage as long as you can plan the longer trip in advance.
 
Half Fast said:
By the way,.... Nothing says it's an either/or thing. You can buy something to fly regularly for spur of the moment Saturday morning pancake hops and local buzzing around, and still rent something bigger when you need to take more people or baggage as long as you can plan the longer trip in advance.
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I wonder how well this really works for most people. It seems like it's hard to get any kind of good "go places" plane by rental. It's worth looking at what's available locally, and also what you'd want for a traveling airplane.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I wonder how well this really works for most people. It seems like it's hard to get any kind of good "go places" plane by rental. It's worth looking at what's available locally, and also what you'd want for a traveling airplane.
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I’ve got access to a 210 that’s on the line specifically for this purpose, and has been for at least 8 years.
 
I've never lived anywhere where a go-place rental has been available, nor the rental rules in order to make it a reliable option to enjoy the hobby versus just getting frustrated and quit. Ownership has been the only available option for me. N=1 and all that jazz. I suppose the big metro areas probably have enough density to conglomerate enough people to be able to swing that kind of airplane availability. Of course, if I lived in DFW,Socal, Atlanta, et al, airlines would generally be a functional alternative to ownership [non-starter storage costs alone in particular] in the first place. Many of these places the storage costs alone exceed my total yearly budget on the Arrow. Catch-22.
 
I suggest finding a flying buddy and splitting the expenses. Maybe someone trying to time build.
 
You need a purpose for your flying.

Here's mine:
  • Going back and forth from our homes in Phx/Ensenada
  • Catalina Island for a burger, and taking friends to the Island
  • Support flightsforlife.org with the transportation of blood around the state of AZ
  • Trips to California's wine country areas
  • Trips to visit friends scattered across the Southwest US
  • On rare occasions, travel to a business meeting in a place not well-serviced by commercial airlines
  • Less frequently, use the plane to visit family in the STL area
  • Go up on a nice icky IMC day and challenge myself to fly crisp approaches and holds
If it was just to go bore holes in the sky, I'd not fly.
 
orange said:
At least if I go back now, there will be new places to see, not that same NYC Bravo triangle.

Any advice/suggestions?
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The club idea is good and it gives you a bunch of pilots who usually enjoy flying together and doing stuff and even if you don't come up with an idea they will!

- Pretty new to it myself. We just did a https://www.pilotsnpaws.org flight that was fun.
- Looking forward to some grass fields as they dry out
- You'll have some really nice mountains to go fly over from your new location and they have airports and in those mountains are streams and in those streams are trout. :)
- You'll have a wide variety of shore airports
- My next plans? Tailwheel, floatplane and glider ratings, although I may put that off until we end our sentence in MD and move to NH.
 
Salty said:
If costs are a major factor look for a glider club. It's considerably cheaper. And frankly, you learn to be a better pilot.
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Agreed, especially if you have a club reasonably close.
I find the glider flying a lot more fun than power flying, in part because since I own the glider once I release from the tow plane the Dollar meter stops and I can fly as long as I my skill level and the weather will let me, or until I want to land. My longest flight last week was just under 6 hours.
it is also a very social sport. Even though I have a single place glider I never fly by myself, we are alway working together to help each other find the best lift and routes and encouraging/challenging each other.
Unless you just decide to take off and glide back to the airport, each flight will be different.

I flew a contest this week flying 5 out of 7 days. I flew just under 20 hours. At $60 per tow that is only $18 per hour direct flight cost.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
When I first started flying I belonged to a club that had 4 older C-172s for training, 2 newer C-172Rs, 2 Piper Arrows, a Piper Lance, a Beech Sundowner, and a Grumman Cougar (twin). They had an unenforced policy of minimum hours per day but actively encouraged travel. But they were operating at a loss and after selling airplanes one by one to finance operations and losing a couple to accidents they went under.

That’s the last time I could have rented the “traveling airplane”. They just aren’t available even in clubs (I belong to one) here in central Florida.
 
The fun planes in the $30k range, like a Champ, scare me because of the fabric and upkeep. I’m not a wrench turner.

Near me, anything in a hangar is a minimum $300/month.

Chicagoland area I know of 2 clubs with traveling planes and both are really expensive. One at PWK and one at DPA. Traveling planes for rent are not the norm here.
 
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) said:
The fun planes in the $30k range, like a Champ, scare me because of the fabric and upkeep. I’m not a wrench turner.
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I was actually surprised at the number of reasonable airplanes I found online at that price range.. mostly Cherokee 140, but I saw a couple 180 at around $36K. old, but seem like good time builders and local day VFR planes
 
At a hang gliding landing zone, you can't swing a dead cat (or living one for that matter, not recommended) without hitting an ex-GA pilot. If you are flying for fun, I think flying in a spam can isn't the best way. Hang gliding, paragliding, flying a paramotor or a light sport trike or an ultralight is more enjoyable, not to mention a lot less expensive.

For me, a well flown cross country is very satisfying, but flying locally didn't hold my interest. The problem with cross country flying is that you need somewhere to go, often with someone else, and you need that fairly frequently to justify the expense. So now you need a destination, which probably means lodging, and some sort of ownership since you'll be keeping the airplane overnight. That's getting into a lot of expense, plus you now are either an owner or a partner and have a fairly complex, and probably very old airplane to keep up. It's also a year round thing since you need to maintain proficiency.

People here wonder why more people don't get into flying, I'm impressed that as many of us fly as do.
 
I like to fly just as much as the next guy, but there have been periods where I just rather do something else.

(ie., it’s a beautiful Saturday afternoon, I think I’d like to take a nice hike or go to the gym.)

Flying doesn’t always take precedence, but I’ve found after I go through a few bouts of this, I end up beginning to crave getting airborne again.
 
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