As I file IFR more...Autopilot options, thoughts

Morgan3820

Morgan3820

Ejection Handle Pulled
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El Conquistador
Perhaps more to the point is getting rid of the vacuum system/instrumentation. 1975 PA28R-200 with the orginal Piper AutoControl III, Avidyne IFD440. My research so far:

1. Garmin GFC500 w/ 2 G5...$23K installed, $25K with all of the,"while yur at its", assuming the shop will install with my Avidyne.
2. Aspen E5 w/ Aerocruze100...$18K installed.
3. Aspen E5 driving my current AP...$6K for the Aspen. Don't know the install costs, $4K :dunno:, so $10K total. Assuming a shop will do the work.

Option 1 is preferred by my local shops, surprise!, but $23K. I don't see the return and I am not talking resale. As I become retired, I am hoping to be able to pick my weather more, but not always. I don't knowingly go up when things are at mins, but things can change while up. And aside from wanting to retire, did I mention my daughter is going to grad $chool? She is borrowing for most but will need help with living expenses.

Option 2 still ain't cheap and then there is the Aerocruz100, not as full featured as the Garmin unit, the UI appears to be clunky, but it would be a big improvement on what I have now. And my local shop says that he is getting units delivered in a timely manner now.

Option 3 is the biggest bang for the buck. Single axis is fine by me but how long will it last. When it does become unrepairable, (it was overhauled by Lancaster Avionics 10 years ago), my only option is the Aerocruz100, if it is still around.

Did I miss anything?
 
I did option 1 a little over a year ago. I guess my timing was good since it only cost me about $17k:)
 
Jesse Saint said:
You missed the option to install just the Aerocruze 100. There is no need for an Aspen or G5 with the AC100. It will drive directly from the IFD440. Cost for this, installed, should be around $9,000.
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Has the AC100 become a viable product? I know that there was concern when BK bought the line.
 
I have a Warrior with the Piper Autocontrol IIIB. I priced out the Aspen E5 route vs. two Garmin GI 275s and the latter won by a smidgeon, even after Aspen discounted things. You need autopilot interfaces for the Aspen that are built into the Garmin was the equalizer. You may consider pricing that option out as well. Plus even though Garmin isn’t perfect, I sense they’re gonna be around longer than Aspen. That said, I’m not expecting the 275s to arrive till mid-November; the Aspen would be quicker.
 
Late to this game, but the the Trio will run off your ifd440 no problem. 2 axis, gpss, climbs, descents, alt hold, course, intercept, track, 180, upset recovery. Installed under $10k.

Sent from my SM-S901U1 using Tapatalk
 
If your current AP works, and you can get GPSS emulation through G5s or Aspen, that is maybe the way to go. You can always replace the AP later if it fails. While it was a bit costly, adding the G5s is one of those "I don't regret doing that for the least bit now" items.

In my case, I already had a functional STEC-20, and I just added dual G5s to dump the vacuum system and get GPSS with a GNS-430W. Not as functional as a GFC500 but an affordable way to gain a ton of IFR assistance. I got the whole shebang installed for about $7K, and did a Lynx NGT-9000 while I was in there (another $7K at the time.) If the AP ever goes, I'll probably put in a GFC500 to get altitude hold. If you can plan these upgrades incrementally it is less painful in the wallet, but of course every time you open up the panel there is a fixed cost of labor to integrate everything again.
 
I just did Option 1 in my 182. It's a nice piece of equipment. I also did a JPI 900, so the panel looks bare. The entire right side is empty. You can almost fly the entire flight without touching the yoke. Start off pressing the heading button on the lower G5 when you line up on the runway. Put the flight plan into the iPad, send it to the panel using the Flightstream and press HDG for the climbout, then press NAV. Add the approach in when you get it, send the plan to the panel again and press APP. When you see something that looks like a runway, cancel the APP. If it controlled the throttle, it would be complete.
 
Don’t want to steal the thread looking for options for c150 autopilot.
 
I had Jesse over at Saint Aviation install an Aerocruze 100 in my PA32. I'm not fluent any any other APs, haven't experienced any others to compare to. But the Aerocruze has been great, I absolutely love it. I had to adjust some of the original settings but it's been flying great. As far as service, I did just recently have the screen do something weird on the head unit. I called Mid Continental up (they service them for BK) and they said they hadn't seen that issue too much and to send it in to them. I mailed it off on a Friday and a week later I had a brand new head unit back in the plane, was covered under warranty. So I'm very happy with that (the service) aspect too. I have it paired up with a GTN 650, GNS 430W, and an Aspen 1000.
 
I have an Aspen driving my AP and don’t like it. It works fine, other than the dread red x’s and changing any little thing costs 5-10k. As much as people hate garmin, Aspen is far worse imo.
 
Salty said:
I have an Aspen driving my AP and don’t like it. It works fine, other than the dread red x’s and changing any little thing costs 5-10k. As much as people hate garmin, Aspen is far worse imo.
Click to expand...
I generally don't have our Aspen driving our AP. If I'm wanting a heading mode, I'll usually just set the Aerocruze 100 to Track Mode and use it to choose a desired track. Knock on wood, I haven't had the red x's show up. Hopefully I can continue that trend. The plane came with the Aspen, so for now, it'll be what I go with. I like it so far as far as information it provides, etc.
 
1000RR said:
I generally don't have our Aspen driving our AP. If I'm wanting a heading mode, I'll usually just set the Aerocruze 100 to Track Mode and use it to choose a desired track.
Click to expand...

I have a similar setup (I think)... Aspen, TruTrack and a navigator (in my case, a 430w).... My procedure for switching to heading mode has always been to select the heading on the aspen, flip the switch to couple the TruTrack to the Aspen, then make sure the mode on the TruTrack was in heading mode....

In your experience, is just pressing the mode button on the Aerocruze then using the knob to select track good enough when getting vectors? I am always nervous track not being equal to HDG is going to get me yelled at by ATC. Never really experimented with it, though... thus the question.
 
Deelee said:
In your experience, is just pressing the mode button on the Aerocruze then using the knob to select track good enough when getting vectors? I am always nervous track not being equal to HDG is going to get me yelled at by ATC. Never really experimented with it, though... thus the question.
Click to expand...

The short answer is - yes, TRK mode on the Aerocruze has been "good enough" when given a heading by ATC.

The long answer... I run my GPSS to the Aerocruze direct from my GTN 650 (or 430W as a secondary GPS) most of the time. So my "source" switch is normally over on the GPS (Not the Aspen). My Aspen setup didn't integrate the GPSS from the Aspen so well... so I'm running the GPSS straight from the source (GTN or the GNS). About the only time I put the source switch over to the Aspen is when I'm updating the Baro setting on the Aspen. Then I'll move the source switch over to the Aspen so that the Aerocruze picks up the new Baro setting too. Once I'm done, I usually switch the source back to the GTN/GNS and GPSS.

To answer your question on the pressing the mode button to use the Aerocruze Track mode relative to an ATC assigned heading, I guess I would answer that a couple few ways. The short answer is - I haven't had an issue in the context you mentioned. That said, I do pay attention to my heading on the Aspen and double check that it's within reason to whatever heading they assigned (within 5-10*). They can't tell exactly what the winds are doing up there so there's definitely a margin of error that can be expected. If I make the turn and it's not enough, ATC will provide additional guidance, they don't know and don't fuss.

If ATC tells me 10 degrees right or 15 degrees left, the Track mode on the Aerocruze works nicely... as I just twist it 10 degrees or 15 degrees from wherever I was. If ATC is vectoring me to join the final approach course, there's as much room for error there too (again, they don't know exactly what the winds are doing), so I'm not too worried. Again, I will check just to make sure I'm pretty close if I have time. Sometimes on departure I'll use the Aspen heading bug if I anticipate a busy departure and I'm expecting vectors. For me to use the Aspen Heading Bug (if I'm in GPSS), I have to first flip the Source Switch to "Aspen", then the Aerocruze defaults to TRK mode then I have to press the Mode button to get it to follow the Aspen Heading Bug. So generally it's just less button pushing for me to only press one button (the Mode button) and then I'm in TRK mode and I can twist the knob to whatever TRK I want (which usually ends up close to an assigned heading). A secondary reason I prefer the TRK mode for heading changes is the steering direction my Aspen gives to the Aerocruze results in overshooting the turn a touch more than I like... then it overshoots a little coming back the other way, then it'll settle in. If the Aerocruz is using it's own TRK for changes, it doesn't seem to overshoot as much and gets on the new TRK sooner. Just a little pet peave of mine - I don't like it wallowing back and forth and my Aspen seems to do that with the Aerocruze.

Sorry for the long answer, hopefully that makes sense.
 
So, For those that were just dying to know, We are on the schedule at the avionics shop to install the AC100 and the Aspen E5. The shop is an Aspen and BK dealer, so I don't have to deal with ordering and we get the Oshkosh discount for the E5. Wish me luck.
 
1000RR said:
The short answer is - yes, TRK mode on the Aerocruze has been "good enough" when given a heading by ATC.

The long answer... I run my GPSS to the Aerocruze direct from my GTN 650 (or 430W as a secondary GPS) most of the time. So my "source" switch is normally over on the GPS (Not the Aspen). My Aspen setup didn't integrate the GPSS from the Aspen so well... so I'm running the GPSS straight from the source (GTN or the GNS). About the only time I put the source switch over to the Aspen is when I'm updating the Baro setting on the Aspen. Then I'll move the source switch over to the Aspen so that the Aerocruze picks up the new Baro setting too. Once I'm done, I usually switch the source back to the GTN/GNS and GPSS.

To answer your question on the pressing the mode button to use the Aerocruze Track mode relative to an ATC assigned heading, I guess I would answer that a couple few ways. The short answer is - I haven't had an issue in the context you mentioned. That said, I do pay attention to my heading on the Aspen and double check that it's within reason to whatever heading they assigned (within 5-10*). They can't tell exactly what the winds are doing up there so there's definitely a margin of error that can be expected. If I make the turn and it's not enough, ATC will provide additional guidance, they don't know and don't fuss.

If ATC tells me 10 degrees right or 15 degrees left, the Track mode on the Aerocruze works nicely... as I just twist it 10 degrees or 15 degrees from wherever I was. If ATC is vectoring me to join the final approach course, there's as much room for error there too (again, they don't know exactly what the winds are doing), so I'm not too worried. Again, I will check just to make sure I'm pretty close if I have time. Sometimes on departure I'll use the Aspen heading bug if I anticipate a busy departure and I'm expecting vectors. For me to use the Aspen Heading Bug (if I'm in GPSS), I have to first flip the Source Switch to "Aspen", then the Aerocruze defaults to TRK mode then I have to press the Mode button to get it to follow the Aspen Heading Bug. So generally it's just less button pushing for me to only press one button (the Mode button) and then I'm in TRK mode and I can twist the knob to whatever TRK I want (which usually ends up close to an assigned heading). A secondary reason I prefer the TRK mode for heading changes is the steering direction my Aspen gives to the Aerocruze results in overshooting the turn a touch more than I like... then it overshoots a little coming back the other way, then it'll settle in. If the Aerocruz is using it's own TRK for changes, it doesn't seem to overshoot as much and gets on the new TRK sooner. Just a little pet peave of mine - I don't like it wallowing back and forth and my Aspen seems to do that with the Aerocruze.

Sorry for the long answer, hopefully that makes sense.
Click to expand...
Do you make use of the control wheel steering function?
 
1000RR said:
I generally don't have our Aspen driving our AP. If I'm wanting a heading mode, I'll usually just set the Aerocruze 100 to Track Mode and use it to choose a desired track. Knock on wood, I haven't had the red x's show up. Hopefully I can continue that trend. The plane came with the Aspen, so for now, it'll be what I go with. I like it so far as far as information it provides, etc.
Click to expand...
Do you make use of the control wheel steering function?
 
Morgan3820 said:
Do you make use of the control wheel steering function?
Click to expand...

Not very often. Usually I am on GPSS and I dial the altitude in I want to climb/descend to. If I'm being vectored OR I've been give left/right deviation approval, I just use the TRK mode and go cloud dancing. The times I've used the control wheel steering as best I can recall are 2 scenarios. One would be if on a Visual Approach where I've just been cleared for the Visual and I'll use the Control Wheel Steering to release the AP momentarily and make a quick turn to a course I prefer to setup for the Visual Approach. The other I can think of is if there is some urgency, maybe I'm VFR and I am navigating for traffic or airspace, I'll use the CWS because it's so quick to do and I don't need to be "exact" on my heading.
 
1000RR said:
Sorry for the long answer, hopefully that makes sense
Click to expand...

Makes perfect sense. Next time I'm up VFR I am going to test this method out. Thanks again!
 
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