Artificial Horizon died

lancie00

lancie00

Line Up and Wait
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lancie00
Taxiing out last night for practice and the artificial horizon was jumping and tumbling all over the place. :( It seems like no matter what I do, I can't get my instrument rating done without spending a ton of money. Anyone have an idea what a new one will cost? Yes, a G5 would be nice but I'm guessing one of those would cost quite a bit more??? I'll have to call my mechanic today and see what he says.

I guess that means partial panel practice for a while?
 
Depending on the failure, a repair may be possible. I had something similar happen as I was taxiing out to launch into low ceilings for a trip to my home drome. The local shop sent it out for repair and installed a loaner so I could get home with only a few hour delay. As I recall the cost was less than I'd typically spend on a radio repair.
 
FredFenster said:
Are you sure the instrument is shot and not the vacuum pump?
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Vacuum gauge showed good vac and directional gyro appeared to work correctly so I assume it's the AH.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Depending on the failure, a repair may be possible. I had something similar happen as I was taxiing out to launch into low ceilings for a trip to my home drome. The local shop sent it out for repair and installed a loaner so I could get home with only a few hour delay. As I recall the cost was less than I'd typically spend on a radio repair.
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I like that idea. Anything cheaper sounds good to me right now.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Replacing the lines/fittings is REALLY cheap compared to a new AI. Including labor it cost like $200.
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Well that's not so bad then. I'll make sure to ask my A&P if we should look at this. Thanks
 
@Mtns2Skies issue is exactly why I would suggest just getting a G5. Yeah, it's usually just the AI and you can overhaul one for something under $1k, but then if there are other issues you'll be pretty much up to the same cost as a G5. Plus, I hate vaccum systems and I hate steam AIs. Had them fail too many times on me.

In fact, I just had to spend $1400 on an overhauled AI for the MU-2. I'm really annoyed I can't put a G5 in the plane. Thank you, FAA.
 
A non-autopilot attitude indicator can be overhauled for $3-400. An autopilot attitude indicator can be overhauled for $4-500. Usually turned around in a couple days by a good shop. Absent unusual circumstances, shouldn't take more than 30 minutes (at most to remove) and 30 minutes to re-install.

My favored instrument overhaul shop:

http://rudyaircraftinstruments.com/Home_Page.html
 
Mtns2Skies said:
I had this same problem. I got an overhauled AI for $800 and had it in a few days... but that didn't fix the problem. Then I had my A&P replace all the lines and fittings in the vacuum system and that is what fixed it. I also had good vacuum pressure and my DG worked pretty well.


Edit: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/mystery-ai-failure.112591/
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@lancie00 This. Start with the simple stuff and work up. Not the expensive stuff and then work down.
 
luvflyin said:
@lancie00 This. Start with the simple stuff and work up. Not the expensive stuff and then work down.
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That's the case in any repair, and so to @lancie00, the question revolves around the total collection of symptoms. In my case, it was running fine, and then a sound like throwing a piece of paper into a fan, and the immediate flopping around of the display. So clearly in my case it was an instrument failure.

What other symptoms of your failure can you describe?
 
As a minimum have your mechanic blow down all the lines in your vacuum system,then I would go for a rebuilt unit.
 
deyoung said:
What's a typical install cost for a G5?
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Depends on the degree of installation. Simpleton AI only is the cheapest, and you're probably good if you come out the shop under 5 AMUs. It's not a cheap solution imo for what you get, especially if you're not getting rid of the vacuum system. I'd be more inclined to install the HSI only for my particular gripes with the vacuum systems (i.e. the only thing I value in glass is the heading slaving capability and non-mechanical HSI, the rest I couldn't care less about). YMMV.

For the OPs case, meh I'd just overhaul exchange the damn thing and keep flying.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Depends on the degree of installation. Simpleton AI only is the cheapest, and you're probably good if you come out the shop under 5 AMUs. It's not a cheap solution imo for what you get, especially if you're not getting rid of the vacuum system. I'd be more inclined to install the HSI only for my particular gripes with the vacuum systems (i.e. the only thing I value in glass is the heading slaving capability and non-mechanical HSI, the rest I couldn't care less about). YMMV.

For the OPs case, meh I'd just overhaul exchange the damn thing and keep flying.
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$5k to install just the AI is obscenely expensive. It's 10 hours of labor, at most, to install. The unit is about $2k. Much north of $3k out the door and your shop is screwing you (absent some unusual circumstances).
 
I meant 5K all-in. And yes, most shops are screwing you on labor. they gotta eat (they would say). What else is new?

Piston avionics installations are priced under a revenue airplane model imo. But recreational users outside of ExAB don't get a discount for "non-revenue use" when installing these things, which is another reason this hobby sucks in the cost front and I continue to fly behind dated and well worn instruments.
 
The unit itself is $2200, another $300 for antenna if needed. Would take 3 hours just R&R junk to access for installation. a couple hours to get it mounted well, cutting overlays, busing replumbing the pitot static lines. A couple more hours fixing pitot and static leaks since the airplane probably has never had an honest leak check, setup and vibration survey, radio interference test, paperwork and built in warranty cost. Of course spent a couple hours writing the quote,cleaning up, phone calls, explaining things, callback explaining the same things you told them at delivery the first time. Another callback asking why the worn out mechanical airspeed, altimeter and VSI don't match the G5.

R&R interior, running coax, installing antenna doubler, installing antenna is 10 hours easy.
 
Talked to A&P. He said he'd take a look at it and let me know. He guessed $600-$800 to rebuild/replace what I have. I said something about a G5 and he asked how much money I had. I told him not to worry about it. He said he'd take a look at the vacuum lines too and let me know. For what I do (just recreational flying), I think I'll just stick with a rebuild and move on.
 
bnt83 said:
The unit itself is $2200, another $300 for antenna if needed. Would take 3 hours just R&R junk to access for installation. a couple hours to get it mounted well, cutting overlays, busing replumbing the pitot static lines. A couple more hours fixing pitot and static leaks since the airplane probably has never had an honest leak check, setup and vibration survey, radio interference test, paperwork and built in warranty cost. Of course spent a couple hours writing the quote,cleaning up, phone calls, explaining things, callback explaining the same things you told them at delivery the first time. Another callback asking why the worn out mechanical airspeed, altimeter and VSI don't match the G5.

R&R interior, running coax, installing antenna doubler, installing antenna is 10 hours easy.
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FWIW, I installed a G5 AI in my airplane, myself (I'm not an avionics tech), in probably 8-10 hours total. No reason an experienced shop should take more than 10 total (and I got several quotes before I did it myself in the 10 hour range).
 
lancie00 said:
Taxiing out last night for practice and the artificial horizon was jumping and tumbling all over the place. :( It seems like no matter what I do, I can't get my instrument rating done without spending a ton of money. Anyone have an idea what a new one will cost? Yes, a G5 would be nice but I'm guessing one of those would cost quite a bit more??? I'll have to call my mechanic today and see what he says.

I guess that means partial panel practice for a while?
Click to expand...

I had the same thing happen to me last month. I am about 90% of the way complete with my ifr training when the AI went out. Frustrating to say the least.

I had quotes of $1,600 to repair the vacuum AI and $4,150 to go with a G5 and remove the vacuum equipment. I ended up going with the G5 and got my plane back last week.

In my case I weighed the cost of both the ai and future vacuum pump replacement against the G5 and in my mind I hope to avoid future downtime and maintenance issues by going all electric. Another thing I learned, atleast in my area, is it is really difficult to get on the avionics guys calendar because that are so busy. Fortunately after 4-5 calls I found one able to “fit” me in.
 
I've heard that as well. Took the plane in for pitot static check the other day and heard the secretary say that they are booking ADS-B installs for September NEXT YEAR! No wonder I can't afford avionics.
 
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