Are there updates to HIMS SI? Go to BasicMed?

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Beat

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Beat
I'm getting mixed signals. Many on this forum and my HIMS doctor say I can never go to BasicMed. However, an AOPA rep and my reading of the regs state otherwise. Under BasicMed, there is a section that says, "Medical Conditions Requiring One Special Issuance Before Operating under BasicMed." Under that section is my SI: "A substance dependence within the previous 2 years."

I have my SI over a year. I've had two medical certificates since receiving it. Why can't I go to Basic Med?
 
What is the wording on your SI with regards to the requirements to maintain it? Does it expire or are you required to maintain it?
 
SI Expires years from now. The medical expires every 6 months. You see, though, the BasicMed seems to indicate that you can leave the SI behind as the SI is for an "unrestricted" license such as a 3rd class, 2nd class, etc. But the BasicMed is a restricted license. Just don't try to get a Third Class ever again. The BasicMed states that all you need is to have the SI once and complete at least one period of a medical exam, then you can apply for BasicMed. So why is it stated so often that BasicMed is not available? I just don't see the regulation that clears that up.

Before I had this incident and reported it, I had not flown for a while. I had intended to start flying again at that time. However, the money and time to maintain the SI has meant I have been unable to fly. At $60,000+ plus so far and at least 10-15 hours a week to maintain the FAA requirements, along with 5 hour drives to be evaluated, and over 70 urine tests without a failure, I'd like to find some way to have the time to actually fly again. Each time I've booked a CFI and plane in last 6 months, I've received a notification for a random urine test. That takes about 2 hours to complete and has to be done between the hours of 10-12:30 or 2:00 to 4:00. To juggle that time, I end up having to cancel the return-to-flying flight.
 
Beat said:
So why is it stated so often that BasicMed is not available?
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Your question is best directed to the person telling you that. If it's your HIMS AME, ask him to back it up with something other than his opinion; you are, afterall paying him for his expertise and his advice. If he balks or is unable to explain his reasoning, then you have your answer....
 
Lindberg said:
Your question is best directed to the person telling you that. If it's your HIMS AME, ask him to back it up with something other than his opinion; you are, afterall paying him for his expertise and his advice. If he balks or is unable to explain his reasoning, then you have your answer....
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Thanks. Good point. I did ask. He said, "just trust me. you don't want the FAA legal team coming at you. I can fit you in next week for another exam”
 
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Consider it this way - suppose your substance dependence had been 5 years in the past and you had previously held a 3rd class medical. You would clearly be eligible for Basic Med.

So, once your 3rd class expires and more than 2 years have passed since your dependence, you will be in the exact same situation and eligible for Basic Med.

The key is you need to let the class 3 expire and not be revoked. If you fail to maintain the SI while the class 3 is active, the FAA can revoke the class 3. Once the class 3 expires, though, it cannot be revoked. Then you are in the Basic Med safe haven.

You can actually get the Basic at any time, but it won’t be any help to you until the class 3 expires.

So, don’t abuse any more substances, maintain your SI, and don’t re-apply for another class 3.
 
I didn’t see what your SI wording was. Are you required to maintain your SI or required to renew it?

from the last time this question was asked:

bbchien said:
You are responsible for all the terms on a special issuance until the date of the expiration of the certificate.

A HIMS AME sponsored issuance (4 pages long) means you have to continue to test and continue to do your AA or group aftercare and testing until the end date. A "sponsored HIMS issuance" has every week requirements (to maintain) and the sponsor has to report you if you do not do them-->conversion to denial.

A non HIMS special issuance- only has requirements to renew (not to maintain). If you have one of them you are free to not renew and go to basic at any time without rear of revocation.
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You have to comply with the SI only until the end of the date on the certificate. Then but not until the date, you can stop complying.

You can get a concurrent basic med....any time. If you don’t comply with terms of the SI until the expiry date, however the HIMS AME is required to call it in——> instant revoke/denial...=no more basic.

so fully comply until the end date and don’t renew, and fly on basic. Just you will not find a single HIMS AME who will give you a basic....see last paragraph about attitude!

just NEVER have another alcohol event because if you do, you will be detected (when you do the BASIC course you re-release the NDR to the agency, and you’re REALLY done. DONE.

....but in the end I have to say that I don’t hear any grateful attitude for the second chance...and that speaks volumes to the quality of your recovery.....I will however, say that every alcoholic needs be congratulated for every day of sobriety (drugs, too,). And I also will say, some Drs. charge too much...but for what the HIMS guys do....it’s not that common....

lastly, if you ever need to get back in, it’s the whole deal over again......
 
Dr. Chien, are you saying to comply with the end date of the SI or the end date of the most recent 3rd - or 2nd or 1st - class medical.

Also, you really can't say anything about my recovery or attitude. You don't know me. To suggest that I am not grateful enough - by reading a few short lines - is truly damaging. Please refrain from opining on my attitude unless you take the time to get to know me. Thank you.
 
I suspect after that reply, Dr Chien has written you off. There is no need to suffer fools. You’re aware that he helped write a lot of these rules, right?

Recognition, humility and acceptance of your condition are key elements. You aren’t showing those things.

It depends on the wording of your SI. If it says that you must maintain it, then the FAA has identified you as unqualified to fly except for the HIMS program. Your method of qualifying medically becomes irrelevant because if you go off your HIMS program, your sponsor must report you to the FAA as not in compliance and therefore unqualified.

Whether or not you lie, that is irrelevant.

you could fly anyway, but then you’d be adding being a scofflaw in addition to anti-authority. The best outcome you could hope for there would be a large fine, the worst winds up with you making a smoking crater and killing you, whoever is with yo7 and whoever is unfortunate enough to be under you.
 
bflynn said:
I suspect after that reply, Dr Chien has written you off. There is no need to suffer fools. You’re aware that he helped write a lot of these rules, right?

Recognition, humility and acceptance of your condition are key elements. You aren’t showing those things.

It depends on the wording of your SI. If it says that you must maintain it, then the FAA has identified you as unqualified to fly except for the HIMS program. Your method of qualifying medically becomes irrelevant because if you go off your HIMS program, your sponsor must report you to the FAA as not in compliance and therefore unqualified.

Whether or not you lie, that is irrelevant.

you could fly anyway, but then you’d be adding being a scofflaw in addition to anti-authority. The best outcome you could hope for there would be a large fine, the worst winds up with you making a smoking crater and killing you, whoever is with yo7 and whoever is unfortunate enough to be under you.
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Well, Bruce did say

"so fully comply until the end date and don’t renew, and fly on basic. Just you will not find a single HIMS AME who will give you a basic...."

So it seems Basic is an option for him. Whether it would be wise is a different question.
 
bflynn said:
I suspect after that reply, Dr Chien has written you off. There is no need to suffer fools. You’re aware that he helped write a lot of these rules, right?

Recognition, humility and acceptance of your condition are key elements. You aren’t showing those things.

It depends on the wording of your SI. If it says that you must maintain it, then the FAA has identified you as unqualified to fly except for the HIMS program. Your method of qualifying medically becomes irrelevant because if you go off your HIMS program, your sponsor must report you to the FAA as not in compliance and therefore unqualified.

Whether or not you lie, that is irrelevant.

you could fly anyway, but then you’d be adding being a scofflaw in addition to anti-authority. The best outcome you could hope for there would be a large fine, the worst winds up with you making a smoking crater and killing you, whoever is with yo7 and whoever is unfortunate enough to be under you.
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What a completely unnecessary, dickish post.
 
Beat said:
Dr. Chien, are you saying to comply with the end date of the SI or the end date of the most recent 3rd - or 2nd or 1st - class medical.

Also, you really can't say anything about my recovery or attitude. You don't know me. To suggest that I am not grateful enough - by reading a few short lines - is truly damaging. Please refrain from opining on my attitude unless you take the time to get to know me. Thank you.
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Beat said:
SI Expires years from now. The medical expires every 6 months. You see, though, the BasicMed seems to indicate that you can leave the SI behind as the SI is for an "unrestricted" license such as a 3rd class, 2nd class, etc. But the BasicMed is a restricted license. Just don't try to get a Third Class ever again. The BasicMed states that all you need is to have the SI once and complete at least one period of a medical exam, then you can apply for BasicMed. So why is it stated so often that BasicMed is not available? I just don't see the regulation that clears that up.

Before I had this incident and reported it, I had not flown for a while. I had intended to start flying again at that time. However, the money and time to maintain the SI has meant I have been unable to fly. At $60,000+ plus so far and at least 10-15 hours a week to maintain the FAA requirements, along with 5 hour drives to be evaluated, and over 70 urine tests without a failure, I'd like to find some way to have the time to actually fly again. Each time I've booked a CFI and plane in last 6 months, I've received a notification for a random urine test. That takes about 2 hours to complete and has to be done between the hours of 10-12:30 or 2:00 to 4:00. To juggle that time, I end up having to cancel the return-to-flying flight.
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A truly grateful airman prefaces his post with "although I am grateful for the second chance, the cost and time spent is crippling".

What you wrote is what you wrote. You are, what you are. There is not any gratitude in that post's language. NONE at all: so consider that it might be true, and quitting the SI might NOT be the right thing to do. But of course you need to do what you need to do.

I'm not defending the FAA. I am merely making an observation (your post quoted here). Perhaps, (and I'm not saying....) not being willing to recognize truth isn't compatible with good recovery. READ what you wrote. What I said is about what you WROTE.

And I trust you got the information you sought. That is the idea, here, "as in, how to proceed". As to gratitude: "Oh, and you're welcome".
 
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Just kibbitzing here as I'm no expert, but I'm assuming that "the end of the date on the certificate" refers to the date that the medical certificate expires, since I've never heard an SI referred to as a certificate.

I'm also assuming that if it's a first or second class certificate, then the expiration date would be the same as a third class certificate, since the higher class certificates are valid for third class privileges until that date (unless a different expiration date has been specified on the certificate). Is that right?
 
The most common medical certificate duration for an airman in the HIMS program is 6 months I believe, thereby causing the airman to be more frequently evaluated by the HIMS AME. The Special Issuance usually covers a much longer period of time. Mine is 5-6 years.

It's interesting and ironic that the FAA obviously meant the 6 month medical certificate to be a restriction on an airman. But due to the short duration of the certificate and the airman's option to walk away from the HIMS program into Basic Med after only the initial 6 months of exercising the privilege's granted by the SI, the FAA actually is creating a more easy pathway to flying for those that can operate under Basic Med restrictions.

Huh.

It would really gum everything up if the FAA started issuing 6 year medical certificates to HIMS participants.
 
KeepWatch said:
The most common medical certificate duration for an airman in the HIMS program is 6 months I believe, thereby causing the airman to be more frequently evaluated by the HIMS AME. The Special Issuance usually covers a much longer period of time. Mine is 5-6 years.

It's interesting and ironic that the FAA obviously meant the 6 month medical certificate to be a restriction on an airman. But due to the short duration of the certificate and the airman's option to walk away from the HIMS program into Basic Med after only the initial 6 months of exercising the privilege's granted by the SI, the FAA actually is creating a more easy pathway to flying for those that can operate under Basic Med restrictions.

Huh.

It would really gum everything up if the FAA started issuing 6 year medical certificates to HIMS participants.
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From what I've read here, I'd say that isn't true. You can't go BM if your medical is revoked. If you stop complying with the terms of your SI before the medical expires, your medical will be revoked. So, to your 6 months, the airman would have to continue in HIMS every 6 months until the medical expires, not until the 6 months of SI expires.

It does sound like a distinction without a difference, right? If they say 6 months and you let it lapse, that should be expiration, not revocation. But apparently that's not the case. I hope I'm wrong and someone will tell me.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
You can't go BM if your medical is revoked. If you stop complying with the terms of your SI before the medical expires
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I think we missed each other......

You're correct that you can't go BM if your medical is revoked. When a Special Issuance is "issued" it is good for a defined term, say 5 years. Within that 5 year period, as long as the airman complies with the terms spelled out in the Special Issuance letter, the AME is permitted to issue medical certificates to the airman. Each MEDICAL CERTIFICATE is only good, in my case, for 6 months. After 6 months I have to go back to the AME for another exam and renew my certificate for another 6 months.

Here's the thing...... the medical certificates EXPIRE after 6 months (in our example). After the medical certificate expires, there is no medical to REVOKE, DENY, ETC unless the airman goes in for another exam and medical certificate. So he can just walk away. The FAA cannot revoke since the certificate expired after 6 months, even though the term of the SI (5 years in this example) has not been completed.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
From what I've read here, I'd say that isn't true. You can't go BM if your medical is revoked. If you stop complying with the terms of your SI before the medical expires, your medical will be revoked. So, to your 6 months, the airman would have to continue in HIMS every 6 months until the medical expires, not until the 6 months of SI expires.

It does sound like a distinction without a difference, right? If they say 6 months and you let it lapse, that should be expiration, not revocation. But apparently that's not the case. I hope I'm wrong and someone will tell me.
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I believe that the medical certificate expires after the six months, not the SI. The OP's original post seems to bear this out. Once the medical certificate expires it can no longer be revoked.

I was not in HIMS, just had an ordinary SI. I got Basic Med an let my medical certificate expire. Once the OP is outside the two year window that requires him to have an SI, I don't see anything preventing him from doing the same thing by letting his medical expire.
 
My understanding - If you quit HIMS with a dead medical, they don’t revoke the medical, they just declare that you are ineligible to hold one. Although it it tied into a special issuance, the HIMS program requirement can persist past a medical. Sure, you can quit and you will be reported as not in compliance by your sponsor and deemed unable to fly.
 
bflynn said:
My understanding - If you quit HIMS with a dead medical, they don’t revoke the medical, they just declare that you are ineligible to hold one. Although it it tied into a special issuance, the HIMS program requirement can persist past a medical. Sure, you can quit and you will be reported as not in compliance by your sponsor and deemed unable to fly.
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That sounds strange.

Where did you get that understanding and how can they stop you from going Basic Med? What does “deemed unable to fly” mean? Any examples?
 
As I understand it, the issue is whether the pilot has complied with paragraph (e) of Section 2307 of Public Law 114-190. It says that he is "required to have completed the process for obtaining an Authorization for Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate." With regard to "substance dependence within the previous 2 years," the question in my mind is "At what point is he deemed to have completed that process?" I don't know the answer to that.

(e) SPECIAL ISSUANCE PROCESS.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—An individual who has qualified for the
third-class medical certificate exemption under subsection (a)
and is seeking to serve as a pilot in command of a covered
aircraft shall be required to have completed the process for
obtaining an Authorization for Special Issuance of a Medical
Certificate for each of the following:
(A) A mental health disorder, limited to an established
medical history or clinical diagnosis of—
(i) personality disorder that is severe enough to
have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts;
(ii) psychosis, defined as a case in which an individual—
(I) has manifested delusions, hallucinations,
grossly bizarre or disorganized behavior, or other
commonly accepted symptoms of psychosis; or
(II) may reasonably be expected to manifest
delusions, hallucinations, grossly bizarre or disorganized
behavior, or other commonly accepted
symptoms of psychosis;​
(iii) bipolar disorder; or
(iv) substance dependence within the previous 2
years, as defined in section 67.307(a)(4) of title 14,
Code of Federal Regulations.​
 
OP, just listen to Dr. Chien. Let the medical certificate lapse, then make sure you meet all of the requirements for BasicMed. Do not go back to your substance use/abuse as that would be a condition that disqualifies you under the self certifying provisions. This is especially true if your diagnosis was dependence rather than abuse. Search the forum and you'll find plenty of info on this specific issue.

Talk about beating a dead horse... it's been addressed numerous times on this board, including written legal documents from the FAA to back it up. Those that aren't directly familiar with the HIMS program should stop cluttering things with their uninformed (and incorrect) opinions.

bflynn said:
It depends on the wording of your SI. If it says that you must maintain it, then the FAA has identified you as unqualified to fly except for the HIMS program. Your method of qualifying medically becomes irrelevant because if you go off your HIMS program, your sponsor must report you to the FAA as not in compliance and therefore unqualified.
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Your statement is not accurate. HIMS airmen have been identified as qualified to fly under a medical certificate as long as they meet the terms of their Special Issuance. It's no different than any other airman with a special issuance.

An AME CANNOT declare you medically fit or unfit to fly. All holders of normal medicals have been deemed (by a designee of the FAA) to "meet the medical standards" laid out in the FARs. That is not that same as "medically fit to fly".

The FAA ("the Administrator") is the ONLY authority that can declare an airman medically fit to fly. Once an airman receives a special issuance, they've specifically been deemed medically fit to fly by the administrator. This is a HIGHER standard than required for an AME to issue a medical certificate.

There's nothing about HIMS that makes an airman "unqualified to fly". It's exactly the opposite, as any HIMS airman holding a medical certificate received it as a result of a special issuance deeming them medically fit to fly by "the Administrator". If the HIMS airman fails to comply with the SI terms then the medical certificate is invalid. If the medical certificate is expired, the airman is not beholden to the terms of the SI.
 
I found the answer to this question on the FAA Basic Med Website -

Medical Conditions Requiring One Special Issuance Before Operating under BasicMed
  • A mental health disorder, limited to an established medical history or clinical diagnosis of—
    • A personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts;
    • A psychosis, defined as a case in which an individual —
      • Has manifested delusions, hallucinations, grossly bizarre or disorganized behavior, or other commonly accepted symptoms of psychosis; or
      • May reasonably be expected to manifest delusions, hallucinations, grossly bizarre or disorganized behavior, or other commonly accepted symptoms of psychosis;
    • A bipolar disorder; or
    • A substance dependence within the previous 2 years, as defined in §67.307(a)(4) of 14 Code of Federal Regulations
  • A neurological disorder, limited to an established medical history or clinical diagnosis of any of the following:
    • Epilepsy;
    • Disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory medical explanation of the cause; or
    • A transient loss of control of nervous system functions without satisfactory medical explanation of the cause.
  • A cardiovascular condition, limited to a one-time special issuance for each diagnosis of the following:
    • Myocardial infarction;
    • Coronary heart disease that has required treatment;
    • Cardiac valve replacement; or
    • Heart replacement.
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Under the mental health disorder section, it lists "substance dependence within the previous 2 years, as defined in 67.307(a)(4) of 14 CFR".

So the answer is yes you can go Basic Med once you've held at least one special issuance medical certificate for substance dependence. Comply with the terms of the special issuance medical certificate until it expires, do not allow it to be suspended or revoked, then go Basic Med. In the FAA's own legal interpretation, it clearly states that "Once a SI medical expires and the airman is not in the process of seeking a new special issuance medical certificate, additional medical information is not reasonably needed for certification under 67.401. Consequently, the FAS may not withdraw the SI Authorization based on the airman's failure to provide information "not reasonably needed by the FAS" for certification under this section. If the airman does not hold a special issuance medical certificate and has no application pending, there is no need for the FAS to request information necessary to determine whether the airman meets the standards for a special issuance medical certificate."
 
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