For Sale Anyone with experience of using agent / broker when buying

Chapel K.

Chapel K.

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May 11, 2020
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KTOA / KLGB
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Chapel
Aspired to be an aircraft owner and got my finance arranged. Done with written and x-country solo, I should get my PPL once the COVID thing is over. The next thing I realized is how little I know about (any) aircraft expect for C152 and C172 that I was trained on. One of the ideas is to hire an agent or broker to buy the airplane on my behalf. Would appreciate your input or experience, whether first hand or second, on this topic.

My ideal plane would be something four seats, IFR ready, in between a time builder and commuter. Budget wise, 80K -120K. Many thanks in advance.
 
I agree with using a buyer agent for your first plane, so so very much.

However, without knowing the type you're interested in, I would FIRST go check out a bunch of planes for sale in your price range and see what tickles your fancy.

You can do it "nicely", buy some fuel for pilot-sellers (nobody EVER offers this when I offer to fly them in a plane I'm selling -- for fifty bucks you can be the top of the pack), ask questions, make friends, and disclose that you're just exploring.

Luckily aviation fora have endless trash-heaps of bickering about which plane types are the best for X mission and whilch ones are terrible and which ones are flown by fake pilots, etc etc... you can go soft in the head trying to "research" this way -- but for capabilities and daydreaming, it's still a good way to figure out which types have which warts.

Then when you've narrowed it down, you can find a buyer agent for THAT TYPE of plane. Every pilot with at least 30 hours would happily "guide" and "advise" you on "a plane purchase", and they might even have some wisdom to impart. But you really want to find the guy who does this for a specific type that he loves. And you can't find him until you know the type.

Plane buying is it's own curriculum, though. Many of us have made the $10,000 mistakes on our way to enlightenment, and you can also. It's a frustrating sort of fun on it's own. But it sounds like you'd rather skip that class. :D kudos.

$0.02
 
Chapel K. said:
Would appreciate your input or experience, whether first hand or second, on this topic.
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FWIW: While some may disagree, as a mechanic, I always recommend discussing any aircraft purchase first with the APIA who will maintain your aircraft. In your case, perhaps determine who you will use in the future and get some feedback even before contacting a broker. There's a lot more to aircraft ownership than how many it seats and is IFR.
 
schmookeeg said:
I agree with using a buyer agent for your first plane, so so very much.

However, without knowing the type you're interested in, I would FIRST go check out a bunch of planes for sale in your price range and see what tickles your fancy.

You can do it "nicely", buy some fuel for pilot-sellers (nobody EVER offers this when I offer to fly them in a plane I'm selling -- for fifty bucks you can be the top of the pack), ask questions, make friends, and disclose that you're just exploring.

Luckily aviation fora have endless trash-heaps of bickering about which plane types are the best for X mission and whilch ones are terrible and which ones are flown by fake pilots, etc etc... you can go soft in the head trying to "research" this way -- but for capabilities and daydreaming, it's still a good way to figure out which types have which warts.

Then when you've narrowed it down, you can find a buyer agent for THAT TYPE of plane. Every pilot with at least 30 hours would happily "guide" and "advise" you on "a plane purchase", and they might even have some wisdom to impart. But you really want to find the guy who does this for a specific type that he loves. And you can't find him until you know the type.

Plane buying is it's own curriculum, though. Many of us have made the $10,000 mistakes on our way to enlightenment, and you can also. It's a frustrating sort of fun on it's own. But it sounds like you'd rather skip that class. :D kudos.

$0.02
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Very helpful insightful comment! Will do my research both on, and off, line. Particularly liked your "$10,000 mistake" analogy. I would rather to pay someone more knowledgable the $10k than to make mistakes. Learn my lesson that cheap is costly in other fields. Thanks a lot!
 
Bell206 said:
FWIW: While some may disagree, as a mechanic, I always recommend discussing any aircraft purchase first with the APIA who will maintain your aircraft. In your case, perhaps determine who you will use in the future and get some feedback even before contacting a broker. There's a lot more to aircraft ownership than how many it seats and is IFR.
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Agree! Will shop around in my local airport. Appreciated.
 
My first plane purchase, without a broker, was ok, but I probably overpaid, and pretty soon I realized it was slower than we wanted for the kind of flying we did. When I sold it, I got tired of the low ballers and tire kickers and multiple requests for copies of logs and so forth, so I listed with a broker nearby. He got my asking price within a few weeks and located a Bonanza that had not yet hit the market that fit the bill perfectly for me. (except that it doesn't have Air Conditioning). When I sell I will definitely call him again.
 
JOhnH said:
My first plane purchase, without a broker, was ok, but I probably overpaid, and pretty soon I realized it was slower than we wanted for the kind of flying we did. When I sold it, I got tired of the low ballers and tire kickers and multiple requests for copies of logs and so forth, so I listed with a broker nearby. He got my asking price within a few weeks and located a Bonanza that had not yet hit the market that fit the bill perfectly for me. (except that it doesn't have Air Conditioning). When I sell I will definitely call him again.
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Very helpful sharing of your own experience. Thanks man!
 
Chapel K. said:
Will get one from airport nearby!
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Talking a mechanic is necessary, but only part of the picture unless the mechanic is also experienced flying a lot of different aircraft. Buyer's agent or just consultant can be a great help. Where are you located? I have both brokered aircraft and more commonly helped pilots buy a plane.
 
Kristin said:
Talking a mechanic is necessary, but only part of the picture unless the mechanic is also experienced flying a lot of different aircraft. Buyer's agent or just consultant can be a great help. Where are you located? I have both brokered aircraft and more commonly helped pilots buy a plane.
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Thanks for your kind offer. Am based in Southern California
 
The good thing is that you're probably in the market for a 172 or PA28-180 with a decent panel already installed for your price range. Unless by commuter you mean you're flying it very regularly for work or over longer distances and need to go faster. I fly my Archer on multi-hour trips to visit family without any issues, but that's not the same as commuting. These aircraft, I have found, most mechanics are happy to work on. If you wanted to go more complex/faster then you really want to talk to your mechanic first.

I used a seller's broker and didn't have my own. The guy was older, used to do it for a living, but had since retired and was only helping a long time friend sell his plane. Very nice, practical, and made a recommendation for me to use the A&P the owner always used. That's where I had to respectfully decline and found my own A&P for the pre-buy just to avoid any conflict of interest.

Bottom line, my biggest advice is to have a mechanic do your pre-buy who has NEVER touched the plane you're interested in before. Even the most non-biased folks, if they are familiar with the plane, will overlook things or not bring up items they perhaps should have caught previously. My first annual with my plane went pretty well considering, and I think I owe that a lot to the independent pre-buy.
 
AU_James said:
The good thing is that you're probably in the market for a 172 or PA28-180 with a decent panel already installed for your price range. Unless by commuter you mean you're flying it very regularly for work or over longer distances and need to go faster. I fly my Archer on multi-hour trips to visit family without any issues, but that's not the same as commuting. These aircraft, I have found, most mechanics are happy to work on. If you wanted to go more complex/faster then you really want to talk to your mechanic first.

I used a seller's broker and didn't have my own. The guy was older, used to do it for a living, but had since retired and was only helping a long time friend sell his plane. Very nice, practical, and made a recommendation for me to use the A&P the owner always used. That's where I had to respectfully decline and found my own A&P for the pre-buy just to avoid any conflict of interest.

Bottom line, my biggest advice is to have a mechanic do your pre-buy who has NEVER touched the plane you're interested in before. Even the most non-biased folks, if they are familiar with the plane, will overlook things or not bring up items they perhaps should have caught previously. My first annual with my plane went pretty well considering, and I think I owe that a lot to the independent pre-buy.
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Excellent advice! Particularly regarding, someone who has never touched the target plane. Yes, the utmost importance of a pair of fresh eyes! Thanks a lot!
 
Find a broker with a good reputation for looking out for the buyer. Also a good mechanic will save you headaches, during the purchase and your ownership.
 
AirplanesUSA.com - Steve Feldman.

I bought my first plane, a Piper Arrow II in 2008. They more than paid for themselves, and taught me a LOT!
 
If you call a broker they’ll tell you that you need them.

Do research on the plane, when you find one buy it’s records online from Aerospace reports or whoever, give them to your IA or whoever will be doing annuals.

It is much cheaper in the long run to fully understand the systems and mechanical needs of an aircraft and it’s 1940’s technology then to open up your wallet whenever something comes up, oil changes, tire changes etc, a good way to learn is to read up and research known issues.

It’s a good starting point, go through the logs with the your mechanic, inspect it etc and once your ok you usually have some squawks you can use to barter on the price. There are no warranties on planes and a broker will not help you fix something if they missed it.

Once you and the mechanic are satisfied, shake hands, write a check and go flying
 
alaskan9974 said:
If you call a broker they’ll tell you that you need them.

Do research on the plane, when you find one buy it’s records online from Aerospace reports or whoever, give them to your IA or whoever will be doing annuals.

It is much cheaper in the long run to fully understand the systems and mechanical needs of an aircraft and it’s 1940’s technology then to open up your wallet whenever something comes up, oil changes, tire changes etc, a good way to learn is to read up and research known issues.

It’s a good starting point, go through the logs with the your mechanic, inspect it etc and once your ok you usually have some squawks you can use to barter on the price. There are no warranties on planes and a broker will not help you fix something if they missed it.

Once you and the mechanic are satisfied, shake hands, write a check and go flying
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Liked the approach you suggested. BTW, got my PPL done this week finally. Getting ready to practice your kind recommendation.
 
I did, the advantage is I didn’t have to travel, he was local to several planes I was interested in. He also did the test flight. And then gave me transition training when I picked it up. I knew what I wanted so I didn’t have to pay for time consulting me.
 
Congrats on the PPL!

Lots of good advice here. All I will add, is to have patience. It's the least expensive ally you have on your journey.
Good luck pilot.
 
Also join the type club for any & all types you're considering. They vary from free to really cheap and there is a world of insight to be found.
 
I bought my plane from the seller's broker and that made things relatively painless.
 
Did not see mention of, be sure you can get in-shonce, at a price you can stomach before settling on a type. Shouldn't be a huge issue for the fixed gear, low hp types mentioned here, but (if you want it), you should know where you stand well before buying. Lots of recommendations for brokers could be had here. I like Tom Hauge of Wings Insurance.
 
Think about your mission, and maybe show up to a fly in or two once they spool back up to sit in a couple aircraft and see how they feel.
 
I went a different route after having multiple wasted travel trips with "less than honest" sellers ... as suggested above, talk to mechanics.

For the Tiger, FletchAIR helped with the purchase and as suggested is an APIA mechanic. Did fairly similar with the current RV which I bought direct LONG before it ever had a chance to go to Barnstormers or any other for sale web site.

There's a local guy here with 11 aircraft that buys and sells them like trading sports cards. He's very well off and puts a TON into each aircraft. Vulture pilots here just wait for him to say he's selling one of them. He got tired of one of them last week and announced it, sold it, closed and got payment all on the same day ...
 
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