Anyone have any info on this Catalina crash?

Hump in the runway makes it look real short. Folks get on the brakes or otherwise loose it after touchdown. Downdraft warnings also encourage folks to land long and/or hot.
 
Not the first and sadly won’t be the last.
 
The hump also leads people to say to themselves, "The runway is longer than it appears." How much longer?!?
 
Another article proving that people without brains shouldn't write articles. *sigh*
I didn't know that 1,500ft was equal to two and half thousand kilometers. Interesting. I will need to re-learn my math.
Also, "There are no visual cues to determine altitude" makes it sound like I need to know my precise altitude when on final. So why do CFIs drill sight picture into our brains? How many of y'all stare at the altimeter when landing? Seems like those Catalina pilots might need to start doing just that to prevent rwy excursions. *sigh*

Nonetheless, glad that there were no fatalities. We'll see what the NTSB says in the end.
 
Ravioli said:
The hump also leads people to say to themselves, "The runway is longer than it appears." How much longer?!?
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Not too hard to count the taxiways you've passed. If you've touched down and are barely coming up on the second taxiway, there's a ton of space to the end.
 
a630653a9f520d76bda46180f6c6246d7d7a6292



Flight from Fullerton

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N4747H/history/20180725/1604Z/KFUL/KAVX

Pilot appears to likely be Edward M who’s a PPL SEL, SES, instrument.

3rd class medical 7/16


As to what happened, you’d have to ask the pilot, if I were to give you my guess, which is worth what you paid for it, he came in high and hot and had too much energy but tired to make it work.
 
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danhagan said:
Not too hard to count the taxiways you've passed. If you've touched down and are barely coming up on the second taxiway, there's a ton of space to the end.
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Agreed.
Which we can expand on by saying that a pilot should always review the airport diagram and rwy layout prior to arrival to know WTH to expect. There's even a FAR about that. ;)
Especially a seasoned pilot like Ed. (if he was the PF)
 
BigBadLou said:
Agreed.
Which we can expand on by saying that a pilot should always review the airport diagram and rwy layout prior to arrival to know WTH to expect. There's even a FAR about that. ;)
Especially a seasoned pilot like Ed. (if he was the PF)
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I've always been anal reviewing taxi diagrams. Learned in a C-152 in my area in summer and had a lot of 100 ft/min climbs get 'wiped out" with a sinker or downdraft. My CFI would call for a go-around right after the mains rolled on (which I hated, but later appreciated). Our field is on a mesa similar to Sedona and Catalina, so you get used to downdrafts on short final.
 
Did this thing drop off a cliff at the end of the runway? Im not familiar with the airport. They obviously hit friggen hard. Not a typical over-run.
 
Lndwarrior said:
Did this thing drop off a cliff at the end of the runway? Im not familiar with the airport. They obviously hit friggen hard. Not a typical over-run.
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so that's what I was wondering. I dont' recall the rwy #s, but one of them is basically a drop off, no where to go but down. the other side, the rwy is uphill and has room after the rwy (or so I've seen in pics, I never made it down that far) so he'd REALLY have to be moving to not stop in time. not to mention all the potholes to slow u down as well I KID, I KID. but he must have gone over on the island side, not the water side. me thinks.
 
2F97C55C-86B4-4A1F-AC28-B1C25AA4DF4B.jpeg He’s on a dirt path or trail, so I’d agree with James331’s guess that he came in hot on runway 22 and couldn’t stop in time.

Again, just a guess, but looking at the width of the path, the turn in the background, I’m thinking this is where he ended up.

Glad the pilot survived. Not sure if we’ll ever know what the conditions of flight and decision making was to make the landing. But a good reminder that we always have the option to go around.
 
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No excuse for this. If the runway was wet, maybe. But there is no excuse for going off the runway while dry humping
 
I live part time on the island and have landed my SR22 here at least 75 times...lost count. Here's my perspective:

* The runway is 3000 feet, so it's not a short one.
* I come in a bit high intentionally, because Cirrus SR22's drop like lead balloons when you cut power...and if I lose power, I want to make it to the runway.
* I have cut back on my flights there due to potholes all over the runway...and prop-nicking gravel; Justin in the tower told me the runway will be repaved in early 2018
* Never be afraid to go around at Catalina; I still do from time to time
* Regarding this crash, it's hard to imagine overrunning on this long runway...a PA32 is capable of much shorter, so I suspect something else contributed

FlyingMonkey said:
https://www.ktbs.com/news/national/...cle_13d85320-4acc-52cd-ad65-17cb8ad9db06.html

just looking for any more info on what happened....
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Hi everyone.
I over flew the rwy last week and decided not to land. You can see loose asphalt chunks and holes just about every where. I've been flying there since the mid 70s and this is the worst condition that I can remember. They need fix that thing ASAP. They've been saying that they will fix it for the last 3-4 years but they still did not do it.
In one of the pics you can see loose chunks in the middle and if you have fairings they can get jammed between the tire and the fairing, will AVX22Apch.jpg AVX-Damage.jpg AVX-MidRWY.jpg damage your fairings and tires, and they are a mess to clean up.
 
When I lived in Los Angeles working for Hughes Aircraft Flight Test Division in Culver City in the late sixties I flew into KAVX dozens of times without incident. I never thought of it as a particularly difficult destination. The posts in this thread about the current condition of the runway would give me pause today.
 
I just flew there yesterday for a pilot's fly out. One of my pax was a pilot, the other was not. The non flying pax saw the wreckage still there and started asking about.. I'm sure that's exactly what he wanted to be seeing lol

danhagan said:
Not too hard to count the taxiways you've passed.
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No.. not at all. Basically, if I am not firmly on the ground by the time I pass the first taxiway I go around. Mind you, this is in a Cirrus and with a 3K runway that "first" taxiway from 22 is about halfway down, meaning you have about 1,500 left.. which starts to get near the POH values for the plane. From runway 4 you can give yourself until the second taxiway but that is *really* pushing it. The runway at 3K feet is not short, but for many SoCal pilots that is going to feel short, especially from from 27R or 28R at SEE, MYF, etc. Most people around here are blessed with 5K runways.

SkyDog58 said:
It really isn't that difficult of an airport.
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No, it really isn't. But it does require some proficiency and confidence. The runway is not very long and from 22 has a pretty much sheer cliff on the approach end which can make for some interesting drafts in anything over 5-10 knots. From 4 the view is a little more innocuous, however the end of the runway is intimidating since there's nothing behind it. I think the visual illusions force some pilots to come in steep and fast, float, bounce, porpoise, etc. It's fun to watch people land after you've tied down and see people go around or bounce their way down the runway. I do recommend first timers to go there with someone else who's been there before. I think in this case it's pretty clear that they just didn't set up right and paid for it. They're lucky they survived, I can't imagine what going off that cliff feels like. Taking off from Catalina is great, you fly off the end of the runway and are catapulted 1,600 feet over the ocean
 
PS - if anyone from the airport management is reading this. Can we please get it repaved?? With the landing fees they collect and the amount of money they charge for the bus ride, it would be nice to refinish that runway. Borrego Springs (of all places) has a gorgeous brand new runway.. AVX, while not unsafe in my book, will give your suspension a workout and remands attention to keep weight off the NLG

PS - you would think almost as a point of safety and emergency resources they'd keep that airport in better shape. Any natural disaster, fire, etc., would be nice to depend on that airport.
 
Wish them speedy recovery!

Stan Cooper said:
The posts in this thread about the current condition of the runway
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Flew there as recent as last month.
At 1:56 you can see a little the condition of the rwy
and again for a few more seconds at 2:55
Video is not 4K but the asphalt does look as bad in real life as on the low quality vid, unfortunately :(
 
bluesideup said:
Hi everyone.
I over flew the rwy last week and decided not to land. You can see loose asphalt chunks and holes just about every where. I've been flying there since the mid 70s and this is the worst condition that I can remember. They need fix that thing ASAP. They've been saying that they will fix it for the last 3-4 years but they still did not do it.
In one of the pics you can see loose chunks in the middle and if you have fairings they can get jammed between the tireView attachment 65520 damage your fairings and tires, and they are a mess to clean up.
Click to expand...

I'd land on the taxiway.
 
Hippike said:
Wish them speedy recovery!


Flew there as recent as last month.
At 1:56 you can see a little the condition of the rwy
and again for a few more seconds at 2:55
Video is not 4K but the asphalt does look as bad in real life as on the low quality vid, unfortunately :(
Click to expand...

Those videos brought back some memories from my days flying in the area. Thanks for posting them.
 
The "aircraft carrier" runways do tend to make pilots fly base to final on the high side. I was just at Sedona yesterday (great breakfast potatoes, BTW) and sure enough, higher than I wanted to be on final, so a slip was in order. Much better than dragging it in, though.

Good news about the repaving. After it's done, I'll have to pay my $25 landing fee there and have a Bison Burger. Hope the fee doesn't go up, but maybe that's wishful thinking.
 
We have been waiting to repave our 3000 ft runway with grant money from the feds. The cost is about 1 million dollars give or take. Part of the deal is that we have to cough up 10% of the money. It’s not cheap!!!
Repair could be a better option depending on condition
 
1RTK1 said:
We have been waiting to repave our 3000 ft runway with grant money from the feds. The cost is about 1 million dollars give or take. Part of the deal is that we have to cough up 10% of the money.
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Thanks. Given the location I wouldn't be surprised if AVX cost more than that. Definitely not cheap.

But, according to airnav there are 45 ops per day, which I believe, the place gets busy. So 45 X 365 X 25 = $400K. That's assuming no other trustee money gets kicked in. The airport collects plenty of $$ annually, but none of it really seems to go back into it. Arguably back since 2005 they have needed a repave, so there's been plenty of time to save / repair

Oh well. I almost think they keep it rough maybe as a deterrent. Seems like the 22 side is in better health than the 4 side
 
Tantalum said:
Thanks. Given the location I wouldn't be surprised if AVX cost more than that. Definitely not cheap.

But, according to airnav there are 45 ops per day, which I believe, the place gets busy. So 45 X 365 X 25 = $400K. That's assuming no other trustee money gets kicked in. The airport collects plenty of $$ annually, but none of it really seems to go back into it. Arguably back since 2005 they have needed a repave, so there's been plenty of time to save / repair

Oh well. I almost think they keep it rough maybe as a deterrent. Seems like the 22 side is in better health than the 4 side
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Lol!

You must not be to CA or NY, so here how it works, first you need to pay off law-enforcement brass so you don’t go to jail, next is your drug or young boy habit, after that you have your condos, Mercedes, re election funds, nannies for all the legitimate and other wise kids, dry cleaning, etc

aaaaand after that we have like $100 a year to fix a runway.
 
James331 said:
aaaaand after that we have like $100 a year to fix a runway
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Pitiful how our money gets mismanaged isn't it. In Massachusetts Deval Patrick's office got an $11.3M make over.. but when any initiative would come on the ballot to limit or reduce taxes the violins would come out about how the school system has no money. It's a real headscratcher
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion...for-history/pg4Le3oMndKHOSbCyFXAfP/story.html


I don't think AVX is that bad, rather, I bet they just use that money for other items and would love to eventually close that airport.. you know, because planes are dangerous.. and that will force that many more people to ride the $75 ferry
 
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