Any wiggle room on the price of a factory-new plane?

bcool

bcool

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Bud
Not that I would ever be in the position to do so (hey, a guy can dream), but does anyone know if the "list" prices of new aircraft are negotiable?

Somehow I can't imagine haggling over the price like when buying a car, so I'm curious what goes on in that rarified atmosphere :)
 
I can’t tell you about an outright purchase. The deals I’ve been involved with included a trade and the main discussion was about the value of the airplane being traded in. I would however suspect that there may be some wiggle room on an outright sale depending on how much of the commission the dealer is willing to give up to make the transaction happen.
 
Aviat on their webpage says make an offer
 
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I can only speak to Cirrus but some years, at some times it was possible to get a <10% discount, some years they wouldn't really discount but let you load up a bunch of free stuff from their store (and there are some expensive things in the store), and some years, it is just "take it or leave it at list, we have a 10 month+ backlog". It has been closer to the latter for the past few years. There might be some exceptions for very high repeat buyers but those would be quite rare - and I'm just guessing on that front anyway...
 
^^^ This

As with any manufactured durable good you're likely to be able to negotiate when factory/dealer inventory is high (usually after the onset of a recession) and unlikely when demand is running at or above capacity, as it seems to be recently with all the liquidity sloshing around the world and record low credit costs.
 
Joe_B1 said:
In my experience, everything is negotiable!
Click to expand...


:yeahthat:

Years ago I remember watching a news story on a guy that would negotiate prices at McDonalds for the price of a Big Mac.....and not pay list price.

I used to sell used cars years ago to help pay for racing. The tactics used today makes the old time used car salesmen look like saints.

Car dealerships that advertise ''the price you see is the price you pay'' crack me up. Playing to the customer, ''we don't like haggling either so we will add 30% ADP* just so you do not have to haggle price''.... ''Just come in, sign the papers and drive away, easy easy for you, and extremely profitable for us.!!'' Or better yet, ''sell us your used car online for just pennies on the dollar and then we will come pick it up.!! No dealing with salesmen.!!''

Bad credit, no credit...No problem.!!! Oh boy, are you gonna pay for that. Then again, for some folks that have just gone through a really messy divorce or bankruptcy this can be an advantage.

*Additional Dealer Profit added to the price is a real thing. :yes:

MSRP..... manufacturers suggested retail pricing, not the actual price.

Only 3 folks know the actual price: the manufacturer, the dealer and God. Ain't no one talking so you will never know what the actual price is. ( a slick salesman will show you their dealer price, but it is fake) So, pretty much everything is negotiable. Have your top dollar in mind and always be prepared to walk out on negotiations.

All the above is based on my experience over 30 years ago, YMMV, but I am willing to bet not much has changed, except tactics.
 
In theory yes. But as for any negotiation, it has to be mutually beneficial for both sides. On the high end if you’re buying multiple aircraft or will trade the current plane in for the jet in a few years, you have leverage. In fact the Gulfstreams and Dassaults of the world will play that game with contracts covering multiple jets spread out over 10 years. When the new model comes out, I will trade in my current jet for it if you give me a discount on all of them. But if you’re just another guy in line to buy a new plane, not much leverage there. They won’t have much incentive to cut you a break when the next guy peeking his head in the door impatiently is willing to pay full price.
 
Tell Schmiiindy you're an Instagram follower that has to be worth at least a few bucks off a Cessna/Beechcraft
 
Internet pricing and widely available access on portable devices (smart phones) squashed most of the ADP out of car pricing. Not that they don’t play other games... But the ability to compare between dealerships before even leaving the house meant they had to advertise the lowest practical price. I have found that you have to ask for “internet pricing” sometimes when you get there. Now what happens after that in the “business manager’s” office is a whole ‘nuther story. The margins on financing, mats, paint protection, extended warranties, etc., etc. are outrageous.
 
Zeldman said:
Have your top dollar in mind and always be prepared to walk out on negotiations.
Click to expand...

I walked out of a motorcycle shop some years ago as it was pretty well known what the going price was for the model I wanted. After they ran a credit check the salesman basically said I was qualified for anything I wanted (I had a great job at that time). Made him an offer on the model I wanted and he began telling me all of his reason why that wasn't possible. When I told him I could verify that other dealers were taking the same offer out the door he wouldn't budge.

I got on my old bike and rode away. Had a great deal on another bike a few days later. I wanted to ride it over and show it to them but left it alone.
 
Daleandee said:
I walked out of a motorcycle shop some years ago as it was pretty well known what the going price was for the model I wanted. After they ran a credit check the salesman basically said I was qualified for anything I wanted (I had a great job at that time). Made him an offer on the model I wanted and he began telling me all of his reason why that wasn't possible. When I told him I could verify that other dealers were taking the same offer out the door he wouldn't budge.

I got on my old bike and rode away. Had a great deal on another bike a few days later. I wanted to ride it over and show it to them but left it alone.
Click to expand...

I remember years ago (1989?) going into a dealership knowing what the quote on exactly what I was looking for was. This dealer had a 4 door (I only needed a 2 door) with AC (didn't need that) and a few other odds and ends in a car that had been sitting on their lot for about 9 months. I offered them significantly less than what they were asking as I knew that 9 months of interest charges weren't cheap and they'd probably be happy to get it off their lot. The salesman said he'd have to check and walked off. I turned to my wife and said that he would go have a cup of coffee, and return a bit later with the offer sheet wadded up. When he did, we'd get up and leave. Sure enough, a few minutes later he did and we did. Went back to that other dealer and bought the car, a 1988 1/2 Ford Escort. The only mistake I made on that car was buying the extended warranty. Never used it, so that money was wasted. Most reliable car I've ever owned.
 
I was with my wife buying her a new car. She had her checkbook out, told the guy what she would pay, and of course he said "I'll be right back." No, he couldn't go that low.

She told him that's what she was willing to pay, and that she was ready to write the check. "I'll be right back." She told him if he left again, she wouldn't be there when he returned.

He left. She did too. I stuck around long enough to tell him he should listen to people with a checkbook and a pen in front of them.
 
As others have mentioned it really depends on the factory backlog. Frequently there are factory sales demonstrator aircraft that are more liberally discounted which may have 100 or 200 hours on it.

Others were more knowledgeable on tax law can confirm… I believe 2021 is the last year under the Trump tax bill to 100% expense aircraft. That has put upward pressure on aircraft production in the past couple years.
 
Zeldman said:
:yeahthat:

Years ago I remember watching a news story on a guy that would negotiate prices at McDonalds for the price of a Big Mac.....and not pay list price.

I used to sell used cars years ago to help pay for racing. The tactics used today makes the old time used car salesmen look like saints.

Car dealerships that advertise ''the price you see is the price you pay'' crack me up. Playing to the customer, ''we don't like haggling either so we will add 30% ADP* just so you do not have to haggle price''.... ''Just come in, sign the papers and drive away, easy easy for you, and extremely profitable for us.!!'' Or better yet, ''sell us your used car online for just pennies on the dollar and then we will come pick it up.!! No dealing with salesmen.!!''

Bad credit, no credit...No problem.!!! Oh boy, are you gonna pay for that. Then again, for some folks that have just gone through a really messy divorce or bankruptcy this can be an advantage.

*Additional Dealer Profit added to the price is a real thing. :yes:

MSRP..... manufacturers suggested retail pricing, not the actual price.

Only 3 folks know the actual price: the manufacturer, the dealer and God. Ain't no one talking so you will never know what the actual price is. ( a slick salesman will show you their dealer price, but it is fake) So, pretty much everything is negotiable. Have your top dollar in mind and always be prepared to walk out on negotiations.

All the above is based on my experience over 30 years ago, YMMV, but I am willing to bet not much has changed, except tactics.
Click to expand...
I’m only 18 months out of the business and a lot has changed in 30 years, but it’s still a tough business. It’s all supply and demand, certain trucks are hard to get, they are still discounted, but not like they were 2 years ago. I agree ADM or any addendum sticker is BS, but not sure anyone is selling Corvettes at sticker when used ones are $20-30K over MSRP! Depending on the part of the country you’re in, buying a car at the advertised internet price is a great deal, usually they want more! :eek:
 
I don’t know anything about new planes but on cars I’ve found Mazda’s website to be very useful. I search dealer inventory and find cars that are optioned exactly as I want. Then I call the dealer, speak to an internet salesman and tell him the VIN number of the car. Also that I do this regularly, I’m calling other dealers within 200 miles with in-stock VIN numbers and can buy a car immediately, cash or partially financed makes no difference to me. I do this every few years. One dealer in particular seems to get back to me quickly with pricing below my expectation, rolling in all the discounts he can come up with, stuff like splitting his commission from the finance company if I agree to finance some minimum amount. Being 120 miles away and willing to pick up the car immediately seems to show them I’m serious. Also, my spec tends to be slow movers, for example manual shift sedans, but the last two have been 20% off retail. FWIW.

Maybe a little intel to see if there’s a plane out there in inventory someplace that hasn’t moved might help?
 
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