Any tips for 300nm Cross Country for commercial?

Diamonds

Diamonds

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James
Hello fellow pilots. Long time lurker here and first post.

I am an instrument rated private pilot currently working towards commercial. I’m at a point where I will be completing the 300nm cross country requirement.

My proposed route is KLOU - KPDK - KCHA - KXNX - KLOU. I have spent most of my flying around KY Indiana, Ohio, and Nashville (no further south than there in TN). This will be the longest flight I’ve been on and the furthest south I’ve gone. My flight takes me right over higher terrain in the Chattanooga area. The Smokey Mountains are about 80 miles east of CHA. I’ve never flown above or around mountains. That being said, is this a flight I should take or should I get training in mountain flying first? I do not intend to fly over the Smokies and will not route my flight any further east than Chattanooga. Is there a difference between flying over hilly terrain and mountains? I’m thinking of factors such mountain wave, turbulence, downdrafts, updrafts etc.

Another question I have is in regards to how to flight is logged. My home airport is not LOU but an airport further south. LOU to PDK is at least 250nm straight line but my home airport to PDK falls just short of that requirement. I was thinking of starting the flight at LOU to take care of the 250nm straight line distance. I know you have to land at three points. Does the trip have to end at the same airport you begin at in order to count? Can I just fly back to my home airport at the end or do I have to fly to LOU, touch and go, and then return home? My main priority is to see Atlanta on this trip so I want to be able to spend the most time there. That’s why i want to go to PDK.

One last question. Are there any tips you all would be willing to share as far as taking long haul flights in a GA aircraft or for the 300nm cross country in general? I am looking forward to completing this flight, however it is daunting because I have never flown in a small plane that far of distance and for that long.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to any input!
 
Okay, I’ll chime in here — I’m in Chattanooga. Flying up this way from PDK is a total nothingburger. It couldn’t be easier! You won’t have any problem with mountainous terrain or anything of the like, as you’ll be well to the west of that and it will not require mountain flight training. Instead of flying into CHA, I’ll suggest you modify your routing to FGU, which is just east of CHA. Fuel is much cheaper, and we’re much easier in and out. We also have a crew vehicle if you’d like to make a lunch run. Avoid CHA
and come to FGU, I’ll be there to welcome you!
 
Diamonds said:
Hello fellow pilots. Long time lurker here and first post.

I am an instrument rated private pilot currently working towards commercial. I’m at a point where I will be completing the 300nm cross country requirement.

My proposed route is KLOU - KPDK - KCHA - KXNX - KLOU. I have spent most of my flying around KY Indiana, Ohio, and Nashville (no further south than there in TN). This will be the longest flight I’ve been on and the furthest south I’ve gone. My flight takes me right over higher terrain in the Chattanooga area. The Smokey Mountains are about 80 miles east of CHA. I’ve never flown above or around mountains. That being said, is this a flight I should take or should I get training in mountain flying first? I do not intend to fly over the Smokies and will not route my flight any further east than Chattanooga. Is there a difference between flying over hilly terrain and mountains? I’m thinking of factors such mountain wave, turbulence, downdrafts, updrafts etc.

Another question I have is in regards to how to flight is logged. My home airport is not LOU but an airport further south. LOU to PDK is at least 250nm straight line but my home airport to PDK falls just short of that requirement. I was thinking of starting the flight at LOU to take care of the 250nm straight line distance. I know you have to land at three points. Does the trip have to end at the same airport you begin at in order to count? Can I just fly back to my home airport at the end or do I have to fly to LOU, touch and go, and then return home? My main priority is to see Atlanta on this trip so I want to be able to spend the most time there. That’s why i want to go to PDK.

One last question. Are there any tips you all would be willing to share as far as taking long haul flights in a GA aircraft or for the 300nm cross country in general? I am looking forward to completing this flight, however it is daunting because I have never flown in a small plane that far of distance and for that long.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to any input!
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A long flight is nothing different than any other flight, it’s just longer, and 300nm really isn’t far, tbh. Send it
 
Re: your first question... I'm just a regular, 400TT PPL pilot who flew from Chicago to KCHA and around there for the first time this past year. I had no previous experience with elevation (no mtn training) and I found the "mountains" in the vicinity were a non-event. The elevation changes to the east of KCHA were a bit more scenic than my standard Illinois terrain, but they were certainly nothing to be intimidated by. You can easily clear them in any aircraft with plenty of room to spare.

And regarding the time you'll spend in flight? That's not very long at all. It'll be over before you know it. Especially since it sounds like you haven't done a ton of XC, so this should be a fun experience :cool:

Truthfully my best recommendation is to build a XC playlist on Spotify after you're done flight planning :). I find it's nice to have that playing in the background on a long cruise.
 
No, you do not have to return to the airport you started from. Don’t read anything into the regulations that isn’t there. It does not have to be a round-robin flight, it can be one-way. For example, I met the requirement by airlining out to buy an airplane, then flying it back home, making sure to stop three times along the way.
 
My understanding is the trip doesn't even have to be done within one day, let alone start and stop in the same place. I hope this trip allows you to broaden your horizons. My flying this Saturday alone will cover the requirement. 900 miles on tap.
 
RyanB said:
Instead of flying into CHA, I’ll suggest you modify your routing to FGU, which is just east of CHA. Fuel is much cheaper, and we’re much easier in and out. We also have a crew vehicle if you’d like to make a lunch run. Avoid CHA and come to FGU, I’ll be there to welcome you!
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Been a while since I've been over that way but RZR was a really nice place to stop in ...
 
I flew my 300 mile last December. I planned by drawing a circle on the map, and planning trips in different directions in case of weather and then finding the best restaurant. I live in central florida so for us the question is usually "north or south?" I had made a couple long cross-countries that met the requirement before but I wasn't solo. Most important tip is have fun!
 
Are you planning to do this IFR or VFR?

PDK is busy. If you are looking for that great. If VFR, be very aware of the airspace and where you are. If you would rather not deal with that then there are lots of other choices available. If you add 2 more airports (with landings) prior to PDK (or whatever your >=250 nm straight-line airport is) such as TZV & RZR then by the time you land at PDK (or whatever the >=250 nm airport is) then you have completed the CPL XC requirements. If the flight route itself has also covered >=300 nm. If not >= 300 nm @ PDK then likely first subsequent airport @ FGU or CHA would hit the >= 300 nm total distance. Everything after that is bonus.

If you want lower elevation, you can fairly easily drop your max ground elevation by about 1500' by moving the route around east or west if flying VFR.

I do NOT think mountain training will be relevant for your route.

Repositioning your aircraft is fine. I did that for one of my flights. It just worked out better. I flew "backwards" to an airport with a full stop landing although never got out nor shut off the engine. I logged that as its own flight and in the notes specifically called that a reposition flight. Then logged my flight for requirements in the subsequent logbook entry starting from that "reposition" airport as my "original departure point".

Diamonds said:
My main priority is to see Atlanta on this trip so I want to be able to spend the most time there. That’s why i want to go to PDK.
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For me, my main priority was completing the requirements. Where I went was not a big deal. You do get to pick your own priorities.
 
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I'm also IFR working on my commercial now and did the KRYY to KLOU and back for my X Country.

Agree 100% that PDK is a zoo. Suggest you avoid that. Start at KLOU and then head to KRYY via IFR flight plan. The tower people at KRYY are night and day friendlier vs PDK. One very long runway, and very easy to understand taxiways. Your second stop could be an easy VFR hop over to KPUJ - very quiet untowered field. Then pick up an IFR plan back to KLOU.

Keep in mind you'll be under the Atlanta Bravo for KRYY, hence the suggestion for IFR into KRYY.

Atlanta is a fairly wide area, and traffic can be difficult. You could spend the entire day at the Aquarium, Coke Museum, etc. I don't see how you can do this all in a day. In any event, the distance you'd have to Uber anyway to get to downtown makes PDK vs KRYY not an issue.

IF you wanted to take a few hours off after flying to KRYY, Uber over to Marietta Square. It's the old town square with a nice small park in the middle, lots of places to eat, and has a nice small museum.
 
Go somewhere new. Don't fly in the same old tired area. And the terrain is nothing to worry about. Just go to 9.5+ and you're golden.

Hawthorne will bone you for $75 at RYY just for taxiing by their ramp.
 
I did a simple afternoon flight from KIPT-KBTV-4B6-KIPT. KIPT to KBTV is 255NM, and 4B6 was almost in line with cheaper fuel. So I went and did a Touch & Go at Burlington, then stopped at Ticonderoga for fuel. Loaded up and headed back to KIPT.

Total flight time: 5.0
Total clock time: 5.4

It was a nothing flight. Just another cross country, but with a longer leg.

(For reference, this was in a 180hp 172M.)

A similarly spaced trip for you would be KLOU KGSP KAVL KLOU or KLOU KLWB 6L4 KLOU.
 
RyanB said:
No they won’t, I go there all the time. It’s $15 bucks and that’s if you don’t get fuel or anything.
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They must have changed the policy because I got hit for $75 bucks. Didn't even tie down.
 
EdFred said:
They must have changed the policy because I got hit for $75 bucks. Didn't even tie down.
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You were probably flying a snazzy Mooney or Bonanza and they saw you as a high roller.
 
EdFred said:
They must have changed the policy because I got hit for $75 bucks. Didn't even tie down.
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Must have. I go there often, and by often, I’m talking more than once per month. I park, use a crew vehicle for a couple hours and come back and it’s $15. There have been several times when the girl at the desk won’t even charge and I’m not sure that I’ve ever bought fuel from them. I’ve had great experiences from them each time I visit!
 
Hawthorn FBO at KRYY is indeed a nice place with great service. No self serve but the fuel truck comes right away
 
Hey all. Wow. I just wanted to say thanks for all your input. As far as going to Atlanta, I would plan to spend 2 hours or so on the ground. Maybe take a crew car to Starbucks (I collect all the "Been There" series coffee mugs for every state and city I go to) and a place to eat lunch. I really was not expecting to hit all the tourist spots, although that definitely will be on my list for a later trip. I'm particularly drawn to PDK because it is on the north side of Atlanta and the bottom shelf of the ATL Bravo is 70, so I could stay well clear of it on descent. Also, Elton John was based out of PDK when he was touring the eastern US, so as a fan, I thought it'd be cool to see where he flew out of. I've always have been fond of the Atlanta area and the scenery along this route of flight.

Just another question, if I chose to go further south to Macon, for example, what are the odds of being cleared VFR through the ATL Bravo? If I was lucky, would I be flown midfield over ATL to avoid being in the departure and arrival paths? Would I be better off just going completely around the ATL bravo? I think it'd be really cool to overfly Hartsfield, but I accept that there's probably slim chance because it is the busiest airport in the region after all.
 
Honestly - you’ll get nothing out of PDK related to Elton John. But your choice.

If you file IFR they’ll take you into Bravo. Overfly Hartsfield will be north to south at 5000 or so. If flying VFR, no you won’t get approved into Bravo and won’t overfly Hartsfield.

IMHO - don’t go to Macon, and flying around Bravo VFR is a LONG way around.

FWIW I live in Marietta between KRYY and PDK.
 
RussR said:
No, you do not have to return to the airport you started from. Don’t read anything into the regulations that isn’t there. It does not have to be a round-robin flight, it can be one-way. For example, I met the requirement by airlining out to buy an airplane, then flying it back home, making sure to stop three times along the way.
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Yep. By the same token, solo does mean solo. Not with a passenger. Non-human live cargo? Sure.
 
Great point. I’ve had many trips with my wife that would have counted but for it needing to be solo. Why solo? I don’t know.


BTW. Get your 10 night VFR landings and VFR night hours in now before the clocks change and days get longer.
 
I would concur with the folks saying this will not be as challenging as you’re thinking, and is not that long of a cross country. But from your relatively inexperienced perspective, I can understand your reservations. I’m not that familiar with the area, but I have traveled similar routing into CHA and Atlanta area to PDX when I had much less experience, but it’s just like any flight you might plan that you have never been to before.

To help your confidence, I might suggest to plan your routing to fly from KLOU to Louisville Vortac and follow V51 to HCH Vor then V311 to NELLO and then direct to PDK or RYY. By doing so, you have the advantage of MEAs listed on a well travelled routing. I would fly 8.5.-9.5 altitude if not IFR.

I would not fly at night, although you are IFR rated. You can file IFR, but to keep anxiety down I would prefer VMC. When I did this routing prior to my IFR, I was disconcerted by the mild up and downdrafts without visual cues in the mountains at night.

Going into Atlanta area, I’ll bet ATC gets you below the 6K floor of the class B into KPDK or KRYY, and even if the airspace is somewhat busy, just follow ATC and you will be fine. The biggest advantage to filing IFR is that Atlanta ATC will not drop you, as they could if they are too busy for flight following VFR. The other is to penetrate any high overcast over the mountains to stay high.

Going back, I might go back to NELLO and fly V5 to CHA Vortac then direct KXNX,and then direct KLOU.

If you figure out the mileage on this routing, I would think it gives you what you want as long as you make your requisite stops.

I would not drink Gatorade in the beginning, as that will go right through you and potentially make you uncomfortable; just water might be better. The wide mouth empty container however may be helpful.
 
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MajorTurbulence said:
I would concur with the folks saying this will not be as challenging as you’re thinking, and is not that long of a cross country.
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But the OP’s concern about the trip is probably the reason for the requirement, including the fact that it needs to be solo.
 
Re the east coast mountains, everyone is right that they're little compared to out west. Most of my flying crosses over the Berkshires, which are around 3000', more or less, and I usually cross around 1000' over, and perpendicular to the ridge. Sometimes that's a little bumpy, but not usually. On the downwind side of a ridge, maybe 500' or so above or less, depending on the day, you can get some turbulence or downdraft. A little. This is when ground winds are 20 or less and usually no more than 40-50 at 3k. Take all of this with a grain of salt...I'm just bringing it up to suggest that you don't have to be 2-3k above east coast mountains, day VFR, in my experience.

It is a LOT of fun to fly between ridges, where you're maybe 2k over the ground but looking over or up at the ridges, but it goes without saying that if you do that it's a good idea to make sure you know where you're at and where you're headed. Difference being that here in the east, you just climb to 4k-5k or so and you're above everything, even in a low performance plane, where out west you can get yourself stuck.

Don't run out of gas. Don't get lost. Don't forget about the weather. Have fun!
 
WDD said:
Great point. I’ve had many trips with my wife that would have counted but for it needing to be solo. Why solo? I don’t know.
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Because non-pilots can still run the radio, gps and provide comfort for those that don't like to fly alone.

61.129 has the only solo requirements, after the 10hrs for Private.
 
ja_user said:
Because non-pilots can still run the radio, gps and provide comfort for those that don't like to fly alone.

61.129 has the only solo requirements, after the 10hrs for Private.
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1) I can somewhat see your point. And it's not a deal breaker. What I would call a 1st world problem.

2) I fly with my wife. Help with radio, GPS, not going to happen. Comfort? Well, I can think of a lot of directions that can go. If that became a requirement you'd see a lot more getting their commercial license.
 
WDD said:
1) I can somewhat see your point. And it's not a deal breaker. What I would call a 1st world problem.

2) I fly with my wife. Help with radio, GPS, not going to happen. Comfort? Well, I can think of a lot of directions that can go. If that became a requirement you'd see a lot more getting their commercial license.
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They had to set the bar somewhere, and if the intent is to ensure you can make a long-ish trip without assistance, then the only way to ensure that is to be solo. Maybe for you, your wife is no help, but I know non-pilot spouses that typically do operate the radios, navigate, look for traffic, help with checklists, etc. Or, of course, maybe your spouse or friend who's along is an airline pilot making all the decisions and you're basically just a meat autopilot doing what they say to do.
 
WDD said:
1) I can somewhat see your point. And it's not a deal breaker. What I would call a 1st world problem.

2) I fly with my wife. Help with radio, GPS, not going to happen. Comfort? Well, I can think of a lot of directions that can go. If that became a requirement you'd see a lot more getting their commercial license.
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There a people that just flat won't fly solo, for whatever reason. But since know one knows your wife or the level of help you may or may not get, it's a solo requirement :)
 
Thanks everyone so far for your responses. It’s been interesting to see all of your perspectives. I should’ve mentioned this earlier but despite being instrument rated, I am not instrument current, but I’m going to be working on that shortly.

I want to take this in a new direction. I can go to PDK anytime I want to as part of my time building. I’ve had lots of ideas for this 300nm trip and I sometimes get paralysis by analysis because there’s so many places I want to go, but can’t settle on one.

Since the point of all this time building is to get experience and not numbers in the logbook, I want to challenge myself and go places I’ve never been. I’ve thought about a trip out to Kansas City, New Orleans, or somewhere that’s a little further than the minimum 250nm leg requirement. Flights like this being 400nm +, is this something you have to build endurance for? I can fly for 1.5- 2 hours and I feel beat afterwards. It seems daunting to fly 3 or 4 hour legs in a warrior or a 172. I guess at some point the only way to get it done is just to go ahead and do it, right?

I’m sure to make the flying I want to do realistic and practical I’ll have to get IFR current again. Somewhere along those 400+ miles there’s bound to be ceilings and less than ideal weather.

Thanks again everyone!
 
The key is that you are comfortable and each person has their own comfort levels. I would say to check the weather along the route, keep high enough altitude for gliding distance in case of an engine out, and be aware of airports en route as these could be landing areas for you in the event of an issue.

I got caught in a mountain wave before which was a little freaky as I was unable to maintain altitude and applied full power, but you basically have to ride those out and hope that you have enough altitude to ride the wave. Just something to be aware of.
 
midlifeflyer said:
why do people continually refer to the nonexistent 250 nm "leg" requirement?
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(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point.


Correct that it doesn’t say any leg needs to be 250 as long as you touchdown eventually at a point 250 miles away. It’s just easier to make a leg 250 miles.
 
midlifeflyer said:
why do people continually refer to the nonexistent 250 nm "leg" requirement?
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Because the old requirement had leg lengths.

And obviously people do not read and understand the regulations. Which is why, a number of them get to their checkride and find they do not have the required aeronautical experience.
 
WDD said:
Great point. I’ve had many trips with my wife that would have counted but for it needing to be solo. Why solo? I don’t know.


BTW. Get your 10 night VFR landings and VFR night hours in now before the clocks change and days get longer.
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The funny part is 61.129 is either solo or with an authorized instructor while the applicant is performing duties as pilot in command.

I know why that “or” was put in there, but that’s the one of the worst flights I could imagine as an instructor.
 
WDD said:
(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point.


Correct that it doesn’t say any leg needs to be 250 as long as you touchdown eventually at a point 250 miles away. It’s just easier to make a leg 250 miles.
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It is? I know plenty of people who have done intermediate landings, especially since you need at least three anyway. Isn't there a thread right now involving a flight like that? Besides, "it's easier" does not equal a regulatory requirement.

There is also a potential safety issue. You might encounter bad weather (or need to pee!) and instead of diverting to wait out the storm, you push on, thinking if you don't, you'd have to do it all over again.
 
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