Any times to pre-flight check pitch trim on Tomahawks?

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supernovae

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supernovae
Any tips to pre-flight check pitch trim on Tomahawks?

So I went up on Sunday for another fun flight and right upon takeoff It was pretty evident that the trim was perpetually in takeoff and I had to fly out to the practice area higher and slower as to not keep on climbing.

Any tips / tricks to check trim before takeoff or is this one of those once you land, report the issue and never checkout that aircraft again?

Obviously the neutral trim marker on the wheel wasn't exactly lined up as neutral trim when I checked that :)
 
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supernovae said:
So I went up on Sunday for another fun flight and right upon takeoff It was pretty evident that the trim was perpetually in takeoff and I had to fly out to the practice area higher and slower as to not keep on climbing.
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Huh? Don't understand. Are you saying the trim wheel was immovable?
 
midlifeflyer said:
Huh? Don't understand. Are you saying the trim wheel was immovable?
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While on ground, I checked trim wheel, it was marked as near neutral.. took off, tried leveling off in flight and neutral marketing was more aft trim than anything, rolled forward trim and airplane just kept wanting to climb and in straight and level flight kept singing to me with stall horn.

Wasn't the aircraft I normally flew in..
 
N801BH said:
NEVER trust a trim indicator ...:no::no:
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anything to look for that would show trim out of whack? Will the controls be less bouncy or not want to come in to neutral if the trim is out?

it was interesting flying it as it was, didn't feel unsafe but made it hard to work on radio et all when all I hear was bzz bzz bzz bbzzzzz bzz with every little bump and bounce..

super easy on landing though.. seemed really well trimmed :)
 
supernovae said:
anything to look for that would show trim out of whack? Will the controls be less bouncy or not want to come in to neutral if the trim is out?

it was interesting flying it as it was, didn't feel unsafe but made it hard to work on radio et all when all I hear was bzz bzz bzz bbzzzzz bzz with every little bump and bounce..

super easy on landing though.. seemed really well trimmed :)
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Look for subtle things during your preflight /walk around.... Most trim tabs will be in the same position as that is where they are usually left after the last landing... Other then that just be ready to re-trim on the takeoff roll, or better yet, get in the air and then trim it... I don't know of a plane that has a trim tab so big as to overwhelm the controls and prohibit takeoff... YMMV...
 
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Part of checking out in a plane should be to know where the trim tab should be when you set it for takeoff and look back at the elevator while doing your control checks as part of the pre-takeoff checklist.
 
Ron Levy said:
Part of checking out in a plane should be to know where the trim tab should be when you set it for takeoff and look back at the elevator while doing your control checks as part of the pre-takeoff checklist.
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Do people get a ladder out to check the elevator on a Tomahawk? the place I fly from has 4 Tomahawks and the one I usually get is a blast to fly and no problem with trim. I'm not sure how I could have found this trim issue out on the ground before flight otherwise.

I did full control checks at runnup, it didn't look like the elevator was stuck at a poor angle but maybe i'll mess around with the trim wheel a bit this weekend and pay closer attention to where it is so I can make sure it deflects fully in both ways or find a way to better see that deflection..

moral of the story.. double check trim somehow lol, otherwise it could be an interesting flight.
 
Eye ball: on the ground before the take off run, trim the aft of the elevator about 1-2 inches down. Not too reliable though.

You can figure out the trim in flight or in climb out. It is not hard to control or over power the trim on take off and easy to wheel it out in a jiffy.

Climb at Vx: 70 kts, trim hands off, now put a marker or Band Aid or similar to the top of the trim wheel. That, is your new take off trim setting.

Level out, speed up to 80-90 kts, power back to say 2250 rpm, speed stabilizes in level flight and roll three rolls forward to take the push off the yoke. Wait for the 3-4 pitch oscillation to settle and then fine tune the trim to hands off again. Note that setting on the trim wheel.

Throttle up to red line, pitch up to 70 kts attitude, trim 3 rolls back and then fine tune at 70 kts, trim hands off. Should be close to the original Band Aid/marker.

Trying to correct the trim tab to show under the index is quite a task, especially in the Tomahawk I. As always, a Band Aid takes the pain away.
 
The trim on a Tomahawk is spring based. You're tightening a cable to apply tension to a spring, which uses another cable to apply force to the elevator.

The springs can get weak, they can break. That's why there is a service life (1500 hr, IIRC) on them.

I'd put it down on a squawk list for the FBO and let them figure it out.
 
Fly the Warrior out there, not much more expensive and way more comfortable. Whose your CFI? They've got a good crew out there.
 
DavidWhite said:
Fly the Warrior out there, not much more expensive and way more comfortable. Whose your CFI? They've got a good crew out there.
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Tomahawks have 2 doors, a high seating position, and lots of glass. For a trainer or a Saturday flyer who only needs 2 seats, they are great airplanes.
 
DavidWhite said:
Fly the Warrior out there, not much more expensive and way more comfortable. Whose your CFI? They've got a good crew out there.
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I fly with Tommy right now, But everyone I've meet has been great. I may take out the Warrior later on, but I've already done quite a bit in the Traumahawks already. I really want to fly the CTSW they have just to try it out as well.
 
supernovae said:
it was interesting flying it as it was, didn't feel unsafe but made it hard to work on radio et all when all I hear was bzz bzz bzz bbzzzzz bzz with every little bump and bounce..

super easy on landing though.. seemed really well trimmed :)
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I don't understand what was going on here :confused: Are you saying you were flying straight-and-level with the engine throttled back, so that your airspeed was only just above stall? :yikes:
 
The trim wheels on the warriors get real stiff when its cold out. Imagine thawks might have same issue

Most aircraft wont outright stall with full nose up trim but they'll come close. If this condition occurs you can overpower the trim in trainers and fly a normal pattern and land.
 
deeruck said:
I don't understand what was going on here :confused: Are you saying you were flying straight-and-level with the engine throttled back, so that your airspeed was only just above stall? :yikes:
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I couldn't trim down.. after takeoff I noticed that the wheel all the way forward was still trimmed for Vy.. Just had to slow down a bit to keep from climbing and gain some altitude.. it was just a bumpy day and since it was the first time I used that aircraft, I don't know if stall horn was already sensitive but it went off with every bump.
 
supernovae said:
bit in the Traumahawks
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Regarding the stall warning, your right it is real sensitive, and you should pay attention to it! The fun thing about a Tommy is you will get a real strong warning that you're about to stall when the tail starts to wiggle and the controls get super mushy both right at about the same time… I am certain you have done some slow flight and stall recovery with a CFI. And if you can get your CFI to do some spin recovery with it take the opportunity..
 
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