Any stats on the number of non-certified pilots?

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John Galt

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John Galt
Are there any studies on the number of non-certified pilots in the US? I have heard that there is large percentage in Alaska but what about the lower 48?
 
Non-certified as in students?
 
John Galt said:
Are there any studies on the number of non-certified pilots in the US? I have heard that there is large percentage in Alaska but what about the lower 48?
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No one has that number. Remember, these people are flying illegally.

Here are who is flying legally as of 2010.


  • 118,657 student pilots (128,663 in 1990 and 93,064 in 2000)
  • 227 recreational pilots (87 in 1990 and 340 in 2000)
  • 4,066 sport pilots (did not exist until 2005)
  • 194,441 private pilots (299,111 in 1990 and 251,561 in 2000)
  • 120,865 commercial pilots (149,666 in 1990 and 121,858 in 2000)
  • 142,511 airline transport pilots (107,732 in 1990 and 141,596 in 2000)
  • 15,220 glider-only pilots (9,567 in 1990 and 7,775 in 2000)
  • 21,141 rotorcraft-(helicopter)-only pilots (7,833 in 1990 and 9,387 in 2000)


The numbers also include:

  • 97,409 certificated flight instructors (CFIs) (63,775 in 1990 and 80,931 in 2000)
  • 314,122 pilots overall who held instrument ratings (297,073 in 1990 and 311,944 in 2000)
 
No, non-certified as in they just fly anyway, taking passengers or whatever. It happens a lot in Alaska. Just wondering about in the lower 48.
 
Oh ok, that would be interesting to know, hopefully someone has some info on it.
 
John Galt said:
Are there any studies on the number of non-certified pilots in the US? I have heard that there is large percentage in Alaska but what about the lower 48?
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If you include Pt 103, there are going to be a few thousand.
 
Anecdotally about 1 in 4. More in the South, less in the North. So about 65,000 that are flying illegally in some manner. Either no medical, no certificate or no nothin'.

I've been amazed at how many I've met in my travels and most aren't shy to talk about it.
 
Wonder how many loose their medicals,and can't afford a light sport airplane,continue to fly.
 
To answer the original question - how could there be ? "We'd like you to register here if you're doing something illegal".
 
Pardon my ignorance.
If I lost my medical and got caught flying, is there a legal penalty?
 
CTLSi said:
Here are who is flying legally as of 2010.


  • 4,066 sport pilots (did not exist until 2005)
  • 194,441 private pilots (299,111 in 1990 and 251,561 in 2000)
...
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Those numbers do not include private pilots (and 'better') who are LEGALLY flying under the sport pilot rules without a current medical.

So, given that the FAA does not have statistics on how many certificated pilots are active...
 
Ask one of the activist groups who call always tell you exactly how many people weren't counted by the latest census. Bet they can figure it out.
 
Large number of our military...I flew 22 years without an FFA license...I also know some public use fire fighter types no license, but really not what your asking.
 
Quite a few fly old Lear 23's without a license, and have never had one. Definitely streamlines the Lear acquisition process. :goofy:
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Pardon my ignorance.
If I lost my medical and got caught flying, is there a legal penalty?
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There are several possibilities, in roughly this order:

  • Counseling not to do it again.
  • Administrative action such as a formal "Warning Notice" letter
  • Suspension/revocation of your pilot certificate
  • Civil penalty (essentially a fine of several thousand dollars) if you don't have a pilot certificate
  • Legal action to incarcerate you if none of the above convinces you to obey the law
They don't often get to the last step in getting pilots to stay legal -- I know of only two last year where that happened (neither over medical certificates). That said, I think what deters most people from doing this is the financial risk if they have an accident which won't be covered by insurance.
 
I wonder if you could extract from the NTSB Accident database how many of those pilots were uncertified/unmedicalled, and then extrapolate from there?
 
schmookeeg said:
I wonder if you could extract from the NTSB Accident database how many of those pilots were uncertified/unmedicalled, and then extrapolate from there?
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Only if you assume that uncertified/unmedicalled are no more likely to end up in the NTSB data base than certified / medicallated pilots.
 
I know 5 guys, personally, who are still flying (and have been for decades) without ever having bothered with the official process. Four of them are former military pilots, one is an Alaskan bush pilot. They own and maintain their own planes, and as far as I know, none of them has ever had an incident of any kind. My neighbor across the street was an Army Air Corps in WWII, B-26 pilot (Martin Marauder), 2 combat tours, then an instructor. Flew a P-18 Cub from KPOU to Albany every day (except icing conditions) for over 40 years. The day he retired he put the plane up for sale and never flew again. Never bothered with a license, and the FAA never once questioned him about it. He died a couple of years ago, so it's safe to tell his story.
 
schmookeeg said:
I wonder if you could extract from the NTSB Accident database how many of those pilots were uncertified/unmedicalled, and then extrapolate from there?
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Only if you assume that uncertified/unmedicalled are no more likely to end up in the NTSB data base than certified / medicallated pilots.
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But it seems it would be a good way to establish an estimate for the upper limit on the fraction that is flying who have never been certificated.
 
John Galt said:
This is all excellent news.
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Yep, if you just pay cash for the Lear, you can just fly it away. The chances of ever getting ramp checked are obscure and the penalties unlikely to be more than verbal reprimand, so go for it. You have enough time with MSFS it should be pretty easy to transition to the plane. I suspect you have at least 1000hrs in type so you know the numbers to use to fly it. Stick to that and your MSFS training and you'll probably never be questioned by the FAA. Practice your IFR Comms, that's the key to flying a Lear without a ticket.

Plus, if you pay cash, you also can save on the insurance and second pilot as well. Probably double your flight time per $.
 
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Got to love this country!

:D

So as long as you're okay not having insurance you can actually get away with it.
 
Not really any different than driver's licenses. I know quite a few family members that have had the joy of getting into an accident with an uninsured/unlicensed motorist. Its not a problem until you get caught, and most of the time, it is barely a problem then.
 
John Galt said:
Got to love this country!

:D

So as long as you're okay not having insurance you can actually get away with it.
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You in the LJ?

You'll die.

Really, that's how you will probably get found out,
after they piece together your caracas, or find a piece of a drivers license or something. It'll probably be on the first flight on take off or landing, maybe you'll just peg the ASI on a decent and breakup in flight.

Not that that's a bad thing, I kinda find you annoying, however it will make the industry look bad, so could you just stick to being cheesy and annoying on land please
 
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James331 said:
You in the LJ?

You'll die.

Really, that's how you will probably get found out,
after they piece together your caracas, or find a piece of a drivers license or something. It'll probably be on the first flight on take off or landing, maybe you'll just peg the ASI on a decent and breakup in flight.

Not that that's a bad thing, I kinda find you annoying, however it will make the industry look bad, so could you just stick to being cheesy and annoying on land please
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Nah, it doesn't make the industry look any worse than people already think it is. His flaming wreck would be a blip on the local news, have a few threads on the Internet boards and be forgotten in a month.
 
James331 said:
I kinda find you annoying
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:lol:

Don't worry about me. My skills are significantly superior to yours and I have flown every possible scenario and survived. What you meant to say is that YOU would die, and yes you would. Your reflexes and general skill level are most likely not there so you should stick with whatever you're flying now probably cessna 150 or some such. ;)
 
When I was looking for an airplane to buy out of less than half a dozen one turned out to never have been registered and the owner didn't have a ticket (no way to get it registered so I had to pass on that one - it looked like a nice ride - bummer). Another turned up in the NTSB data base as having been ground looped with damage by a non-certificated pilot. It appears that the owner got the "get a certificate" treatment.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
When I was looking for an airplane to buy out of less than half a dozen one turned out to never have been registered and the owner didn't have a ticket (no way to get it registered so I had to pass on that one - it looked like a nice ride - bummer). Another turned up in the NTSB data base as having been ground looped with damage by a non-certificated pilot. It appears that the owner got the "get a certificate" treatment.
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What stopped you from being able to get a registration on it?
 
mkosmo said:
What stopped you from being able to get a registration on it?
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There was no documentation that stated that it was "amateur built" because it was actually built at the kit factory (as I understood it). Plus it had a couple hundred hours on it.
 
John Galt said:
:lol:

Don't worry about me. My skills are significantly superior to yours and I have flown every possible scenario and survived. What you meant to say is that YOU would die, and yes you would. Your reflexes and general skill level are most likely not there so you should stick with whatever you're flying now probably cessna 150 or some such. ;)
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You are the epitome of what is wrong with this country today. Punk.
 
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