Any Recommendations for an IFR Communications Course?

VWGhiaBob

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VWGhiaBob
Halfway through IFR...need more training in IFR communications. I see Sporty's has a course for $35. King Schools has nothing. I remember a product called COMM 1 for VFR. Do they have an IFR course?

Any recommendations?

Thank you!
 
Which parts are you having trouble with, or are you just prepping?

For the most part, IFR Comm is simple. The thing that trips up some folks is copying clearances. There's a bunch of good examples of clearances being read to folks online all over the place, and airports that have Clearance Delivery or a lot of IFR traffic and are also available on LiveATC can be a help, just listening for free and copying the clearances yourself. Mostly it's about figuring out the order it'll be given in, and a shorthand way to write it.

And since it happens on the ground there's no rush. If you didn't quite catch all of it, readback what you've got and ask for the rest. No need to go blasting into the sky until you're sure you got the clearance and know where you're headed. :)
 
It is just a practice thing...and I mean real world practice. Coms is hard to "train" for.

What to say and technicalities...certainly there is lost of great material. ABILITY to say...that just comes with experience.

What are your stumbling blocks?

For me, it was learning to just blindly copy instructions and not think about them. If you try and process the information as it comes...good luck with the rest of what they are saying. I use CRAFT-V and pre filled in most of it for clearances before calling up then for all other instructions l write everything on my kneeboard with a shorthand...THEN read back...THEN start processing the information....THEN ask for a clarification cuz I can't read my scribble and remember what I just read back!
 
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ATC tells you something. You do it. What's there to 'train' for? It's not much harder than VFR commas except for copying clearances and that's just practice.
 
Enroute: fly with Flight Following... nearly all the phraseology is the same

Departure Clearances: Live ATC, CFI, or Buddies reading clearances to you to provide you practice hearing, scribbling, and reading back. Also learn the tricks of finding out what you will get in advance and having that already written on your pad. So if most or all is given to you by Clearance Delivery, you are ahead of the game.

Approach Clearances: Fly more with your instructor "in the system". Also learn when and how to ask ATC for your desired approach. (I usually do this with my final approach controller when checking on with him, "Podunk Approach, Skylane 55WB, level ____ thousand. I have weather/ATIS Code at Podunk Airport. Request the _____ Approach." Fills in the "Who am I, where am I, what info I have, and what do I want"boxes.
 
Enroute: fly with Flight Following... nearly all the phraseology is the same

Departure Clearances: Live ATC, CFI, or Buddies reading clearances to you to provide you practice hearing, scribbling, and reading back. Also learn the tricks of finding out what you will get in advance and having that already written on your pad. So if most or all is given to you by Clearance Delivery, you are ahead of the game.

Approach Clearances: Fly more with your instructor "in the system". Also learn when and how to ask ATC for your desired approach. (I usually do this with my final approach controller when checking on with him, "Podunk Approach, Skylane 55WB, level ____ thousand. I have weather/ATIS Code at Podunk Airport. Request the _____ Approach." Fills in the "Who am I, where am I, what info I have, and what do I want"boxes.
A good instructor should be able to simulate ATC, including clearances, while VFR or on the ground. Even a halfway decent instrument pilot.
 
Sporty's IFR Communications was okay but a little disappointing compared to their absolutely stellar VFR program. The IFR one is mostly a couple of flights to give basic examples rather than a large number of smaller lessons for the wide variety of things that you might have to say or listen to.
 
"Say again please," by POA contributor Bob Gardner. Best of the best!
411qJCgUQVL._SX402_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/Say-Again-Please-Guide-Communications/dp/1560277602
 
Members...thanks for the info. I may be over-thinking this, but that's' what I do in life. I use Flight Following all the time and am 100% comfortable with coms. That said, I need to bone up on the exact meaning of some phrases like "climb maintain". I understand sometimes they sound obvious but aren't.

Thanks for the help! This 62 year old can't wait to get through training!
 
Members...thanks for the info. I may be over-thinking this, but that's' what I do in life. I use Flight Following all the time and am 100% comfortable with coms. That said, I need to bone up on the exact meaning of some phrases like "climb maintain". I understand sometimes they sound obvious but aren't.

Thanks for the help! This 62 year old can't wait to get through training!

Many of the phrases are in the Pilot/Controller glossary. It's heavy duty since it covers nearly *everything* you'll ever run into, but a great reference. And free!

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/media/pcg.pdf
 
Halfway through IFR...need more training in IFR communications. I see Sporty's has a course for $35. King Schools has nothing. I remember a product called COMM 1 for VFR. Do they have an IFR course?

Any recommendations?

Thank you!

I found listing to clearance delivery at ATL or JFK to be helpful.
 
I use Flight Following all the time and am 100% comfortable with coms. That said, I need to bone up on the exact meaning of some phrases like "climb maintain".

If you're comfortable with FF, you'll be fine once you hear some IR comes a few times.

The 'climb maintain' is actually 'climb AND maintain' and it is what IR sounds like: go to an altitude and stay there.

Have fun and good luck. I'm about halfway through my IR training. My biggest worry was clearances. Now that I've done a few it's not that big a deal any more.
 
LiveATC, youtube, and if that's not enough, PilotEdge.

For youtube, search for "IFR flight atc", or there are a bunch of channels with good ATC audio for IFR flights:

CirrusMax - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnwxBsijr0eaDd18MJIAt4Q
Guido Warnecke - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKIERSbtj6SrJChnKPVUgWg
MrAviation101 - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKALXb2rTLNwVgH9DHVVPLw
Niko's Wings - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC69X4bHc6g3Lppr88AeJLfw
Premier 1 Driver - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG4IsPelLNPJZrL7sqZmBPQ
Steveo1kinevo - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT4l4ov0PGeZ7Hrk_1i-5Ug
 
^^ if you watch Steveo you can learn to say "there's the flash" at every transponder ident request. LOL.
 
Or the other useless one,"position checks."

Heheh. At least that one kinda has a purpose, as a reminder to the PILOT to see if where the controller said you were in radar contact is where you think you are. But the controller doesn't need to hear about your personal mental reminders over the air, agreed. :)
 
I stressed a lot over this during my IR training, and I had flown everywhere with flight following prior. To be honest, once you do it a few times, it becomes no big deal. I listened to LiveATC a bit, but what really did it for me was to develop my own shorthand, and to write-down what I expected (leaving room for corrections) and what I already knew. For example, from my airport to a destination I regularly fly too, they always give me departure instructions to turn left to hdg 200, then radar vectors to XXX, so I write that in ahead of time. I also write in the destination, the altitude, and the departure frequency before calling for my clearance. It helps a lot as there is less to write on the fly, and it is easy to cross something out and write to the side of it. Since I usually use Foreflight's 'recently cleared by atc' routes, I usually get what I expected, which makes the writing and readback more of a procedural requirement.
 
I stressed a lot over this during my IR training, and I had flown everywhere with flight following prior. To be honest, once you do it a few times, it becomes no big deal. I listened to LiveATC a bit, but what really did it for me was to develop my own shorthand, and to write-down what I expected (leaving room for corrections) and what I already knew. For example, from my airport to a destination I regularly fly too, they always give me departure instructions to turn left to hdg 200, then radar vectors to XXX, so I write that in ahead of time. I also write in the destination, the altitude, and the departure frequency before calling for my clearance. It helps a lot as there is less to write on the fly, and it is easy to cross something out and write to the side of it. Since I usually use Foreflight's 'recently cleared by atc' routes, I usually get what I expected, which makes the writing and readback more of a procedural requirement.


Exactly. If you learn to use CRAFT you can pre fill a LOT of the information before you even key up then a clearance is like just filling a few blanks of a Mad Lib vs trying to copy the whole thing blindly from the start.

...and for those too young to not know what a Mad Lib is...you struggle must be real.
 
Some people overthink communicating with ATC. All you have to do is just talk to them. Don't worry sounding professional or sounding like an overzealous d-bag pilot. Just talk! You know or will know all the terminology.
 
Talk to the guys at your local tower. Sit by them and pick it up.

I got my PPL mostly at non towered airports. I used FF for 2 years before I started my instrument ticket. After using FF for that long, I was GTG.

You are going to screw up, learn from your mistakes.
 
Some people overthink communicating with ATC. All you have to do is just talk to them. Don't worry sounding professional or sounding like an overzealous d-bag pilot. Just talk! You know or will know all the terminology.

That is easy to say as a seasoned pilot but as a student pilot a lot of it really is a foreign language.
 
I use CRAFT-V and pre filled in most of it for clearances before calling up then for all other instructions l write everything on my kneeboard with a shorthand...THEN read back...THEN start processing the information....THEN ask for a clarification cuz I can't read my scribble and remember what I just read back!

OK, I give up, what does the V stand for? I already know CRAFT (Can't Remember A F***ing Thing).
 
OK, I give up, what does the V stand for? I already know CRAFT (Can't Remember A F***ing Thing).

I fly out of an uncontrolled field but I can reach Approach from the ground on the radio to receive my clearance.

V for me is "Void Time" if not wheels up by which is part of the clearance they issue so you can go back to CTAF and do what you need to do to launch before making radio contact with Approach once airborne rather than an open ended time since they lock up that airspace for all other IFR traffic till you are off and they have radar contact.

You would also get a void time if you need to call in for your clearance on a land line.

You snooze you loose.

"V" of course would not be applicable at a towered field.
 
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Members...thanks for the info. I may be over-thinking this, but that's' what I do in life. I use Flight Following all the time and am 100% comfortable with coms. That said, I need to bone up on the exact meaning of some phrases like "climb maintain". I understand sometimes they sound obvious but aren't.

Thanks for the help! This 62 year old can't wait to get through training!

Just goes to show you CAN teach an old dog new tricks!

I used an audio tape program, Pilot's Audio Update (I think you can get them on CD now) from Richard Taylor. I could listen to the tapes as much as I wanted driving back and forth to work and to other cities when I was working full time. If you missed something, you could rewind. I think Richard retired, and I don't know if the program is still being done, but I thought it was very good. He had a three tape program on communications. I have the set on tape but you probably don't have a way to play it :(. Besides the three communications tapes, he had monthly tapes on all kind of subjects, and a few more series on things like flight reviews. It was a good way to stay fresh on aviating while you were battling traffic on the ground.
 
Comm 1 is decent and there is a "clearances on request" program too. However, the best thing is to develop this during your training by filing and flying IFR during your training missions.
 
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