Any nonbuilder/non-gearhead owners?
- Thread starter DMD3.
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That’s the ‘we don’t want to insure this, so don’t even bother trying’ price. At some point, they’ll just price everyone out - and themselves.
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Mantis Toboggan, MD
HullLiability or hull?
Nauga,
who will keep the rest of his opinion to himself
I hear liability only is 12-13k.
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What a bargain....
Nauga,
and Eddie Murphey
Nauga,
and Eddie Murphey
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Drake the Outlaw
The insurance on my RV-6 is about $800/yr against a hull value of $55K, which is probably on the low side. What are people with similarly valued tailwheel, 200 mph, certified airplanes paying?
Insurance on a sonex is running about $1500 a year for 30k hull or $400 a year for just liability. It was a lot more when I first finished my plane but I was a 120 hour pilot with a brand new tail wheel endorsement flying a plane that I built and hadn’t even flown 40 hours yet. Secondhand ownership after the 40 hours are flown off for an experienced pilot is about the same as a commercially produced airplane of the same value.
Adam Weiss
Pre-takeoff checklist
Wow...that's really good data to know.
I only pay $950 for $80K hull in my RV-9A.
I love the Velocity, but based on those insurance rates, I don't think I'd make that jump.
That, and like most RV fanboys, I'm just as passionate about my RV-9A as you are about your Velocity.
But damn if those Velocity's aren't sexy!
For the OP, I'm not the original builder, and while not inept, I'm certainly no mechanic either.
I haven't had any trouble finding an A&P.
There are probably a dozen RVs at my home base, and my mechanic built an -8.
I did have an emergency, landing in the middle of nowhere with an electrical failure, and the mechanic onsite had no idea about Vans (or E/AB).
He was totally cool with it, and we fixed the alternator wiring together in about an hour.
hindsight2020
Final Approach
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Those are great rates. I'm paying 1k now for a piddly 52k hull arrow, and lost territorial coverage in the last renewal. I think my days of patronizing the aopa spinoff broker are coming to an end.
donjohnston
Pattern Altitude
One thing to keep in mind is there are some differences here. The risk (for the carrier) between a $80k, 2-seat, 160kt plane that stalls at 45kts vs. a $160K, 4 or 5 seat, 200kt plane that stalls at 60kts is pretty significant. That difference translates to higher premiums.
I'm waiting to see what my renewal quote will be... last year I paid $362 liability and $978 for $25K hull on my Hatz. This hear I passed 100 hours in type and 1000 hours TT (850 tailwheel) so hopefully that will offset the increases.
@kyleb, that sounds like a great price... who are you getting it from?
@kyleb, that sounds like a great price... who are you getting it from?
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Drake the Outlaw
It is coming from AIG through Skysmith.
DMD3.
Pre-takeoff checklist
Retractable gear is also a factor.
Ravioli
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Does metal vs composite also factor in to the higher rates? I don't know, but I've been told, that repairing metal skinned machines is less expensive.
AlphaPilotFlyer
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A lot of speculation in these post. I have past, recent and current experience with the EX vs cert comparison, and can share my experience. I took a couple of Cessna 172’s and put aluminum V8 engines on them, for a number of reasons. They now operate in experimental category under an multi purpose certificate.
as far as insurance: cost was same as stock c172. The carrier is Starr, which is one of the biggest and most established. Experimental market is out pacing certified, and there seems to be plenty of carriers even though the insurance carriers are shrinking.
RE: inspections- it requires a basic part 43 D list, but I have mostly combined the Cessna annual/100 hr list, and the A&P does not require a AI. The engine also has a more detailed inspection list than just the appendix d. I have not had any issues finding A&Ps for inspections. In fact, I use a different one each year so I get different prospectives.
RE cost: experimentals are a lot cheaper to operate and upgrade, especially if using an alternative non certified engine. I put a IPad EFIS in the c172…. Neat system, it’s small, plugs into the pitot static tubes and has ADSB for traffic and weather. There are several apps that are compatible (most such units now use a universal standard of connecting) and currently trying Fore flights EFIS display. The system cost less than $1K and is constantly being upgraded, allowing neat features such as synthetic vision and head up display. The Garmin G5, for example, comes in 2 versions, cert and exp, but the exp cost half.
when the same plane was still in standard AC, I needed to replace some stupid parts, such as door locks that A&P demanded be from Cessna or a PMA’d source, or junk yard with documentation…. as soon as it was in experimental a local locksmith had new exact same lock cores and even rekeyed them to the original Cessna key for about $30 (seems same locks were widely used in old file cabinets).
the above remarks about simply removing a data plate to make it experimental isn’t correct, and would advise researching before doing anything.
If your goal is to operate your certified plane cheaper, experimental exhibition category may be something to think about. It will have about same operating limitations as an AB but research what’s needed to make the crossover with a local DAR. We put some related info on our website www.corsairpower.com which may help.
another option is converting to primary category, which allows same op limitations as standard, even being able to rent it out as long as not being used for charter. Also allows more owner maintenance,
the experimental conversions works fine for us. I went from $64/hr to less than $20/hr to operate, and with way more performance. Most can afford $20hr for a 4 seater. The Faa allows flight training in all categories of experimentals (as long as there is no compensation for plane use) and I’m teaching my daughter in it for her PPL. It really makes getting a pilots license a reality for many. The engine is the most expensive part of the aircraft, so any exp you consider I’d suggest finding an alternative engine.
One more suggestion….. there are plenty of half built kits for sale. I know of a few guys that buy em cheap and have A&Ps help complete the build, then sell them. Consider finding some local A&Ps that can do most of the work and you’d likely end up with a nice AB well below cost…..fly it and sell when you want something bigger or faster, likely for more than you paid.
hope this was helpful.
as far as insurance: cost was same as stock c172. The carrier is Starr, which is one of the biggest and most established. Experimental market is out pacing certified, and there seems to be plenty of carriers even though the insurance carriers are shrinking.
RE: inspections- it requires a basic part 43 D list, but I have mostly combined the Cessna annual/100 hr list, and the A&P does not require a AI. The engine also has a more detailed inspection list than just the appendix d. I have not had any issues finding A&Ps for inspections. In fact, I use a different one each year so I get different prospectives.
RE cost: experimentals are a lot cheaper to operate and upgrade, especially if using an alternative non certified engine. I put a IPad EFIS in the c172…. Neat system, it’s small, plugs into the pitot static tubes and has ADSB for traffic and weather. There are several apps that are compatible (most such units now use a universal standard of connecting) and currently trying Fore flights EFIS display. The system cost less than $1K and is constantly being upgraded, allowing neat features such as synthetic vision and head up display. The Garmin G5, for example, comes in 2 versions, cert and exp, but the exp cost half.
when the same plane was still in standard AC, I needed to replace some stupid parts, such as door locks that A&P demanded be from Cessna or a PMA’d source, or junk yard with documentation…. as soon as it was in experimental a local locksmith had new exact same lock cores and even rekeyed them to the original Cessna key for about $30 (seems same locks were widely used in old file cabinets).
the above remarks about simply removing a data plate to make it experimental isn’t correct, and would advise researching before doing anything.
If your goal is to operate your certified plane cheaper, experimental exhibition category may be something to think about. It will have about same operating limitations as an AB but research what’s needed to make the crossover with a local DAR. We put some related info on our website www.corsairpower.com which may help.
another option is converting to primary category, which allows same op limitations as standard, even being able to rent it out as long as not being used for charter. Also allows more owner maintenance,
the experimental conversions works fine for us. I went from $64/hr to less than $20/hr to operate, and with way more performance. Most can afford $20hr for a 4 seater. The Faa allows flight training in all categories of experimentals (as long as there is no compensation for plane use) and I’m teaching my daughter in it for her PPL. It really makes getting a pilots license a reality for many. The engine is the most expensive part of the aircraft, so any exp you consider I’d suggest finding an alternative engine.
One more suggestion….. there are plenty of half built kits for sale. I know of a few guys that buy em cheap and have A&Ps help complete the build, then sell them. Consider finding some local A&Ps that can do most of the work and you’d likely end up with a nice AB well below cost…..fly it and sell when you want something bigger or faster, likely for more than you paid.
hope this was helpful.