Any Legal Issue with this scenario?

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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Hypothetically, if a film student (Not named Bryan) were working on a documentary about airplanes and wanted to to a high speed pas... Er a Runway insp.... I mean had to go missed and happened to have a law enforcement friend on the ground with a radar gun to get the speed of the aircraft (Not a Comanche) as it passed, would there be an authority that would have an issue with something like this?

There would also be a radar detector in the plane so the aforementioned film student (Not me) could see how far out the radar gun signal could be detected.

Would any laws be broken if one were to shoot radar at an inbound aircraft?

If so, I will tell my film student friend "That's a big no no"
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Hypothetically, if a film student (Not named Bryan) were working on a documentary about airplanes and wanted to to a high speed pas... Er a Runway insp.... I mean had to go missed and happened to have a law enforcement friend on the ground with a radar gun to get the speed of the aircraft (Not a Comanche) as it passed, would there be an authority that would have an issue with something like this?

There would also be a radar detector in the plane so the aforementioned film student (Not me) could see how far out the radar gun signal could be detected.

Would any laws be broken if one were to shoot radar at an inbound aircraft?

If so, I will tell my film student friend "That's a big no no"
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Is the hypothetical airplane going to get closer than 500' to any hypothetical person, vessel, vehicle, or structure when not necessary for takeoff or landing?
 
If I was a taxpayer I might get my nose out of joint if I thought the LEO was on gov't time, or using gov't property for personal use/gain. But that would an issue with the LEO, not a pilot not named whoever.
 
Gee. I wonder how Corky Fornof got cleared to take that Bede Jet through the hangar for the James Bond movie?
 
Some technical issues just came to mind. If one were to stand in front of a plane (metal prop) parked with the engine running, would the radar detect any speed? I recall a Marine telling me that when he was stationed at a certain USMC Air Station, the CO became concerned. The boys were taxiing those F-4s just a little too fast. He had the MPs set up their radar gun and clock them. They got readings in the 400 KT range. It seems that the radar was "looking" into the engine inlets and recording turbine RPM. Somebody help me out.
 
Sounds to me like an unknown police officer might be patrolling the airport grounds with the radar on when a landing aircraft (Not a Comanche) is forced to do a go around at high speed because of wildlife on the runway. Tony Spicer (of the Sonex video Right Seat with Tony Spicer fame) would call that a "sheep clearing pass" ... :D

42:20 in the video -

 
Maxnr said:
Gee. I wonder how Corky Fornof got cleared to take that Bede Jet through the hangar for the James Bond movie?
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Waivers are routinely issued for things like that.
 
1.) Don't tell anyone you're going to do it.
2.) Don't get seen doing it.
3.) Don't shoot the cinematographer.
4.) If you post it in a video, make sure to mention that it was all done with special effects.
 
Seems totally legit. I’d suggest your friend do it with camera rolling, then post the video in the media section of POA. Full send. No ragrets. Anyone who doesn’t like it is a teetotaler.
 
Pull the breaker on the transponder and get some duct tape over the n number
 
declare an emergency on final and you’re good to go.
 
pre-file a NASA report and you’re good to go.
 
make your radio call “731NR low pass” and you’re good to go.
 
First you'd need an aircraft capable of high speed...
 
Lindberg said:
Is the hypothetical airplane going to get closer than 500' to any hypothetical person, vessel, vehicle, or structure when not necessary for takeoff or landing?
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This would likely be the issue. Our FSDO has told me it considers the Runway and signage as structures, so unless the landing exception applies it is a violation. Gear up 200kts, probably isn't with the intention of landing.

On the other hand I have seen the FAA grant waivers for certain operations and events, so go chance to punch FAA frequent visitor card.

Brian
 
Unless I'm totally wrong, those radar guns should work both coming and going. I would ask the officer what the range is on one of those things and place him behind the plane (outside the fence if the range is good enough) to catch it as it comes in for a touch-n-go. At that point, he's not even on airport property and the plane only did a touch-n-go.

I don't see how aiming radar at a plane breaks any regulations considering all the radar in use.

Then again, I have no clue what the range is, so he might have to be (dangerously) close and that would be a problem.
 
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DaleB said:
1.) Don't tell anyone you're going to do it.
2.) Don't get seen doing it.
3.) Don't shoot the cinematographer.
4.) If you post it in a video, make sure to mention that it was all done with special effects.
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In other words. No it can’t be done lol
 
Years ago, a local TV station came out to my airport to shoot a piece on homebuilts. I worked with a bunch of local homebuilt owners to have some good examples, and got a buddy with a Stearman to fly their camera operator for in-flight shots.
Film Group - KIRO copy lowres.jpg
(Ignore the big twin in the background)

One of my friends was with Stoddard-Hamilton, and he brought down their Glasair II demonstrator. Let's call him Fred. The first set of video they took were ground shots. The TV guy wanted us to take off one after another, and we nixed that. Then he asked us to takeoff, and each do a high-speed pass for the camera.

"Just remember, guys," Fred sternly warned us. "There's a 200-knot speed limitation for this area!"

I was the last to takeoff, and saw most of the passes. The Sonerai came through at about 120 MPH. The T-18 at about 150, the RV-6 about 170.

But Fred had sandbagged us. He had that Glasair wide open, and came REALLY low down the runway. Swore I saw blue shift as he approached. Really impressive footage, afterwards.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Did the film student have any baby bunnies in the plane with him/her?
 
Not a lawyer, but a risk manager of sorts…

Outside the discussion about FARs on landing/missed approaches/etc, the other risk is misappropriation of govt assets, I.e. time and wear on LEO equipment. Now it’s not a material amount - say $0.00005 perhaps. No one would notice, except for the fact that people are generally A holes and might use this to get you or LEO in trouble.

You could formalize the relationship with the LEO department to manage that risk. They can use it in a commercial! But then the FAR question would absolutely have to be settled and documented (rather than left for “judgement”).

Is it worth the risk?


:popcorn:
 
2-Bit Speed said:
Unless I'm totally wrong, those radar guns should work both coming and going. I would ask the officer what the range is on one of those things and place him behind the plane (outside the fence if the range is good enough) to catch it as it comes in for a touch-n-go. At that point, he's not even on airport property and the plane only did a touch-n-go.

I don't see how aiming radar at a plane breaks any regulations considering all the radar in use.

Then again, I have no clue what the range is, so he might have to be (dangerously) close and that would be a problem.
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Depends on the radar unit in question-but yes, typically it has approach/away selections, and sometimes “both” to allow both reading both directions. Effective range is somewhat limited. LIDAR (laser) has much greater range and accuracy (operator focuses it on the target with a red dot sight, vs aiming for a general area like radar).

Both May experience issues with trying to get a speed as the AC approaches, particularly LIDAR. On cars/trucks at any distance it typically takes hitting the front plate or a flat grille/bumper to get a reading.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Cover your N-number with a decal that says “N1”.
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Even easier! If @SixPapaCharlie covers up the "20P" of his tail number, he becomes:

351340.jpg


Which, even better, is actually a deregistered FAA Flight Check airplane, adding to even more fun and confusion!
 
I just want to point out how sad it is that doing a planned go around is illegal.
 
The words you are looking for are "panel check". It is a safety of flight related inspection, and can only be successfully accomplished at high speed and low altitude due to the requirements for high speed and low altitude. :)
 
35 AoA said:
The words you are looking for are "panel check". It is a safety of flight related inspection, and can only be successfully accomplished at high speed and low altitude due to the requirements for high speed and low altitude. :)
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Light Sport planes are allowed 120 knots at sea level but that's kinda difficult to check so a low pass down the runway (it is an airport environment & close to sea level) at max cruise speed is needed to confirm that the instruments and aircraft are performing within the specifications given in the regulations. So that logic could be applied here & verified with a calibrated instrument from the police. :D

OK ... I totally made that up but it sounded good in my head before the caffeine got in there ...
 
I have always been told, if yu have to ask - then it is not kosher.
 
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