Any Hunters in Here?

CJones said:
Other than my father-in-law, that is the first 6.5x55 Swede I've seen in someone else's stock.
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Mine is a Mark Penrod custom built on a Swedish 98 action (that I traded a bottle of bourbon for) :D Stock was done by Wenig.

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Reviving this thread for a semi-related question. What type of self-defense ammo do you prefer? As usual, there's always the "anything works with good shot placement", but I'm getting the better-half a concealed carry 9MM for Christmas and she'll eventually need some ammo other than the typical Blazer/Federal 115gr target ammo. Federal 124gr HST? Hornady? Love to hear some opinions.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Reviving this thread for a semi-related question. What type of self-defense ammo do you prefer? As usual, there's always the "anything works with good shot placement", but I'm getting the better-half a concealed carry 9MM for Christmas and she'll eventually need some ammo other than the typical Blazer/Federal 115gr target ammo. Federal 124gr HST? Hornady? Love to hear some opinions.
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Hornady Critical Defense for all my personal defense pistols.
 
good2eat said:
Hornady Critical Defense for all my personal defense pistols.
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Any reason you run that round specifically? I haven't done much research on 9MM defensive rounds since I don't generally carry. I have a single box/magazine of the Federal HST, but it's just because it was available at the time, so that's what I keep loaded in the gun safe. I've never even fired a round of it at the range. Some seem to prefer heavier-grain rounds in the defensive stuff as well, compared to typical range ammo. I'll have the wife put plenty of cheap ammo down range for practice with the new firearm, but I'd also like her to run a few mags worth of the defense bullets to see the difference in feel and accuracy.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Reviving this thread for a semi-related question. What type of self-defense ammo do you prefer? As usual, there's always the "anything works with good shot placement", but I'm getting the better-half a concealed carry 9MM for Christmas and she'll eventually need some ammo other than the typical Blazer/Federal 115gr target ammo. Federal 124gr HST? Hornady? Love to hear some opinions.
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Fed 9mm/150gr HST is my 9mm choice for <4” bbl.
I run Speer Gold Dot , Sig V-Crown and Hornady Critical Defense 9mm, those two are usually 124gr projectiles for all other 9mm pistols.

Any of those are going to be roughly equivalent performance for a self defense load.

FBI chose Critical Duty 135 +P over back to back contracts and it’s a fine choice for firearms rated to +P in their owner’s manual. It will have slightly more recoil though.
 
TCABM said:
Fed 9mm/150gr HST is my 9mm choice for <4” bbl.
I run Speer Gold Dot , Sig V-Crown and Hornady Critical Defense 9mm, those two are usually 124gr projectiles for all other 9mm pistols.

Any of those are going to be roughly equivalent performance for a self defense load.

FBI chose Critical Duty 135 +P over back to back contracts and it’s a fine choice for firearms rated to +P in their owner’s manual. It will have slightly more recoil though.
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The gun we're getting (M&P EZ 9mm) is +P rated, but I think we'll stick with standard rounds. She loved the .380 model of that same gun (incredibly low recoil) but I didn't want to have to keep another caliber of ammo so she's getting the 9MM, lol. It is a 3.9" barrel, and only 8+1 capacity. I'm tempted to get her the Performance Center version with a better trigger, ported barrel, tritium sights, and some minor weight savings, but we'll see.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Any reason you run that round specifically? I haven't done much research on 9MM defensive rounds since I don't generally carry. I have a single box/magazine of the Federal HST, but it's just because it was available at the time, so that's what I keep loaded in the gun safe. I've never even fired a round of it at the range. Some seem to prefer heavier-grain rounds in the defensive stuff as well, compared to typical range ammo. I'll have the wife put plenty of cheap ammo down range for practice with the new firearm, but I'd also like her to run a few mags worth of the defense bullets to see the difference in feel and accuracy.
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All my pistols eat it without fail. Good stopping power and easy to stay on target with successive shots. Plus, it works just as well for my wife. +P for her, she had a difficult time staying on target.
 
from a different perspective: frangible ammo. Doesn't have the stopping power of the purpose-made self-defense rounds. But, and this is the key point, you don't have to be much concerned with wall penetration and ricochets.

(given the cost of frangible ammo, recommend practicing with similar weight cheaper ammo)
 
SoonerAviator said:
Any reason you run that round specifically?
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The question wasn't for me, but I'll answer anyway. While there were a number of fine rounds called out in the thread--if I lived elsewhere, I'd be comfortable with any of them as long as they fed reliably--Hornady Critical Defense and Critical Duty are kinda the official state defensive ammo in NJ. Why? Because NJ bans hollow point ammo, except for some specific narrow carve-outs that it is easy to run afoul of. NJ also bans handguns, except for some carve-outs, but that's another story...

Anyway, and I assume this is because some politician here owns a lot of Hornady stock, the state police issued a letter stating that Hornady Critical Defense and Duty are NOT hollow points, because there is a bit of plastic covering the hollow point. So it's harder to get jammed up on a technicality. No other hollow point round has received such preferential treatment here.

Fortunately, I find it to be a great round and it does feed reliably in my guns, but so do a number of the options that aren't state-sanctioned.
 
GaryM said:
The question wasn't for me, but I'll answer anyway. While there were a number of fine rounds called out in the thread--if I lived elsewhere, I'd be comfortable with any of them as long as they fed reliably--Hornady Critical Defense and Critical Duty are kinda the official state defensive ammo in NJ. Why? Because NJ bans hollow point ammo, except for some specific narrow carve-outs that it is easy to run afoul of. NJ also bans handguns, except for some carve-outs, but that's another story...

Anyway, and I assume this is because some politician here owns a lot of Hornady stock, the state police issued a letter stating that Hornady Critical Defense and Duty are NOT hollow points, because there is a bit of plastic covering the hollow point. So it's harder to get jammed up on a technicality. No other hollow point round has received such preferential treatment here.

Fortunately, I find it to be a great round and it does feed reliably in my guns, but so do a number of the options that aren't state-sanctioned.
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Damn, and I thought komnifornia was bad......Well I guess if our governor and coherts ban all guns there won't be a need for ammunition.....
 
Bob Noel said:
from a different perspective: frangible ammo. Doesn't have the stopping power of the purpose-made self-defense rounds. But, and this is the key point, you don't have to be much concerned with wall penetration and ricochets.

(given the cost of frangible ammo, recommend practicing with similar weight cheaper ammo)
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Yup, that's why we use the $18/50rd range ammo for less impact to the wallet. Running a box or two of the defensive rounds should be sufficient to adjust to any differences in ballistics vs the range rounds. Stuff is about 4Xs the cost per round, so it gets spendy if you are firing defensive rounds. The frangible stuff seems to be about 2X's as expensive as range ammo per round, but certainly something to consider.
 
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GaryM said:
The question wasn't for me, but I'll answer anyway. While there were a number of fine rounds called out in the thread--if I lived elsewhere, I'd be comfortable with any of them as long as they fed reliably--Hornady Critical Defense and Critical Duty are kinda the official state defensive ammo in NJ. Why? Because NJ bans hollow point ammo, except for some specific narrow carve-outs that it is easy to run afoul of. NJ also bans handguns, except for some carve-outs, but that's another story...

Anyway, and I assume this is because some politician here owns a lot of Hornady stock, the state police issued a letter stating that Hornady Critical Defense and Duty are NOT hollow points, because there is a bit of plastic covering the hollow point. So it's harder to get jammed up on a technicality. No other hollow point round has received such preferential treatment here.

Fortunately, I find it to be a great round and it does feed reliably in my guns, but so do a number of the options that aren't state-sanctioned.
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Definitely a great point to be made. Never even thought about the little plastic tip being a legal way to subvert hollow-point laws.
 
Morgan3820 said:
NJ is a wonderful state for people from NJ. I think that they should stay there and enjoy all of the benefits it offers
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I don’t object to them fleeing the PRNJ and seeking asylum in the US, as long as they don’t come to Florida.
 
eman1200 said:
Care to explain this?
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NJ prohibits possession of a handgun outside of one's residence by anyone who does not have a concealed carry permit, EXCEPT N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6 1 lists a number of carve-outs from that ban. Virtually all are for law enforcement, but for private citizens it is legal to transport a (secured, unloaded, inaccessible to anyone in the vehicle) handgun from a dealer to one's residence, and from one's residence to and from an approved range so long as the transport is by the shortest possible route, with no unnecessary stops. That's it. No stopping for groceries, or for a meal, or to visit friends or family, no shooting except at an approved range. And all gun clubs must submit a list of their members to the state on an annual basis.

There are a bunch more restrictions, a big one being that NJ did not issue concealed carry permits to private citizens prior to this summer's Bruen ruling by the Supreme Court. They've since reluctantly issued a few, but A4769 recently made it out of committee and if passed will prohibit concealed carry by civilians on all public and virtually all private property, including all forms of transit with carry in private vehicles called out specifically as not legal.

It's a real mess here...
 
GaryM said:
NJ prohibits possession of a handgun outside of one's residence by anyone who does not have a concealed carry permit, EXCEPT N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6 1 lists a number of carve-outs from that ban. Virtually all are for law enforcement, but for private citizens it is legal to transport a (secured, unloaded, inaccessible to anyone in the vehicle) handgun from a dealer to one's residence, and from one's residence to and from an approved range so long as the transport is by the shortest possible route, with no unnecessary stops. That's it. No stopping for groceries, or for a meal, or to visit friends or family, no shooting except at an approved range. And all gun clubs must submit a list of their members to the state on an annual basis.

There are a bunch more restrictions, a big one being that NJ did not issue concealed carry permits to private citizens prior to this summer's Bruen ruling by the Supreme Court. They've since reluctantly issued a few, but A4769 recently made it out of committee and if passed will prohibit concealed carry by civilians on all public and virtually all private property, including all forms of transit with carry in private vehicles called out specifically as not legal.

It's a real mess here...
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Ok, that’s different from “banning all handguns”.
 
D64B92DC-7C22-478D-BAA3-58C4996A83A6.jpeg For self defense there are various types, Hornady ‘Critical Defense’ & others are fine. I’m one that doesn’t get to wrapped up in marketing, for the most part. Of course I’d want to test for reliable cycling, and at least accuracy within handgun expectations. Not to dismiss the idea, most of us are better off to avoid the bad guys than shoot them.

With some loadings(38 spcl) any hollow point often doesn’t expand, can be the same with many 380 loads. I’ve been loading some lighter for round Lehigh Defense copper bullets. They go faster, don’t expand, and offer deep penetration. They are offered as loaded rounds for those that don’t handload.

Speaking of hunting, off to IL today for the annual deer hunt. I have the Knight muzzle-loader impact confirmed, 50 yards. I see next year they will allow centerfire in IL for deer, with restrictions. I’m halfway thinking of using my 444 Marlin, though I doubt it shoots better than my Knight, trigger isn’t as nice either.

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When I went to Gunsite several years ago, we had a dinner conversation about choice of self defense ammo. The instructor reminded us that, any time we might use a gun in self defense, we could wind up defending ourselves in court. For that reason, he really hated rounds like DOA, with it’s kill-‘em-dead sort of advertising and offensive-sounding name. Much better for the jury to see that you were using something called “Defense.”

It’s something to think about when choosing a home defense gun, too. To a jury, a lever action carbine is American — almost friendly, whereas an AR or especially an AK, is a terrorist’s gun.
 
sourdough44 said:
For self defense there are various types, Hornady ‘Critical Defense’ & others are fine. I’m one that doesn’t get to wrapped up in marketing, for the most part. Of course I’d want to test for reliable cycling, and at least accuracy within handgun expectations. Not to dismiss the idea, most of us are better off to avoid the bad guys than shoot them.

With some loadings(38 spcl) any hollow point often doesn’t expand, can be the same with many 380 loads. I’ve been loading some lighter for round Lehigh Defense copper bullets. They go faster, don’t expand, and offer deep penetration. They are offered as loaded rounds for those that don’t handload.

Speaking of hunting, off to IL today for the annual deer hunt. I have the Knight muzzle-loader impact confirmed, 50 yards. I see next year they will allow centerfire in IL for deer, with restrictions. I’m halfway thinking of using my 444 Marlin, though I doubt it shoots better than my Knight, trigger isn’t as nice either.
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100%. This isn't an issue of putting yourself in a bad position to start with. She works at a surgical hospital and often is the last one to leave the private practice after work. The trip from the building exit to the parking garage can be a target point for an attacker, especially for a female. Even more harrowing at night. It's just a peace of mind issue to have a hand on the gun in her purse holster to be prepared if the need should arise.

OneCharlieTango said:
When I went to Gunsite several years ago, we had a dinner conversation about choice of self defense ammo. The instructor reminded us that, any time we might use a gun in self defense, we could wind up defending ourselves in court. For that reason, he really hated rounds like DOA, with it’s kill-‘em-dead sort of advertising and offensive-sounding name. Much better for the jury to see that you were using something called “Defense.”

It’s something to think about when choosing a home defense gun, too. To a jury, a lever action carbine is American — almost friendly, whereas an AR or especially an AK, is a terrorist’s gun.
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Yeah, I don't have an AR (but probably will at some point). Even then I doubt it would be my choice for home defense, especially inside the home. If the Mossberg 500 (w/short barrel installed) doesn't do it, the 9MM handgun would be the next man up.
 
SoonerAviator said:
…Yeah, I don't have an AR (but probably will at some point). Even then I doubt it would be my choice for home defense, especially inside the home. If the Mossberg 500 (w/short barrel installed) doesn't do it, the 9MM handgun would be the next man up.
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The AR platform is available in 9mm chambering along other pistol-caliber chamberings. I will say you will have less over penetration using the mini-shells over full house loads in a shotgun.

Shotgun vs AR in a home defense scenario is mostly about what you’re comfortable with. I encourage folks to do a one or two day course defensive rifle or shotgun course with a good instructor though. Lots to learn in that space.
 
TCABM said:
The AR platform is available in 9mm chambering along other pistol-caliber chamberings. I will say you will have less over penetration using the mini-shells over full house loads in a shotgun.

Shotgun vs AR in a home defense scenario is mostly about what you’re comfortable with. I encourage folks to do a one or two day course defensive rifle or shotgun course with a good instructor though. Lots to learn in that space.
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I should say, I was speaking more along the lines of the "traditional AR-15" in 5.56 with a fixed stock and 16" barrel. They obviously make lots of pistol-style AR variants that make it a much more manageable weapon in close quarters. Getting around the corner with a long rifle/shotgun can be a challenge, especially if you haven't trained in how to do so effectively.
 
My goal with home defense is non penetrating, stopping power to let the wife get the kids out of the house.

After that the cops will be there.

I have an AR45 that uses grease gun mags. Good round count with low penetration for initial contact.
 
In an ideal world, a fully auto PCC such as an Uzi or an MP5 would be an ideal close in defense weapon, but unfortunately by the time you dumb it down to "California legal" standards, you end up with either an oversized pistol with no more carrying capacity than a compact concealed carry pistol, or a stocked weapon with a barrel so long you might as well be using an AR type carbine (e.g. M4.) So you are back to either a pistol, if you are good with one, or maybe a pistol grip shotgun if you aren't.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
When I went to Gunsite several years ago, we had a dinner conversation about choice of self defense ammo. The instructor reminded us that, any time we might use a gun in self defense, we could wind up defending ourselves in court. For that reason, he really hated rounds like DOA, with it’s kill-‘em-dead sort of advertising and offensive-sounding name. Much better for the jury to see that you were using something called “Defense.”

It’s something to think about when choosing a home defense gun, too. To a jury, a lever action carbine is American — almost friendly, whereas an AR or especially an AK, is a terrorist’s gun.
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Unfortunately, you are correct.

Sac Arrow said:
In an ideal world, a fully auto PCC such as an Uzi or an MP5 would be an ideal close in defense weapon, but unfortunately by the time you dumb it down to "California legal" standards, you end up with either an oversized pistol with no more carrying capacity than a compact concealed carry pistol, or a stocked weapon with a barrel so long you might as well be using an AR type carbine (e.g. M4.) So you are back to either a pistol, if you are good with one, or maybe a pistol grip shotgun if you aren't.
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We have similar nonsense in the state of Washington. Thanks to a number of left wing loons (and I will include my state senator in that bunch) we are now limited to purchasing magazines that will hold no more than 10 rounds. If you have legally owned magazines that you purchased prior to 1 July 2022 you may still own and use them. How they tell when you bought them is anyone's guess.
 
If you look at magazines on eBay now...........for the most part they are ALL 10-rounders, regardless of what they actually are.
 
kgruber said:
If you look at magazines on eBay now...........for the most part they are ALL 10-rounders, regardless of what they actually are.
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I did buy a few Lancer ar10 20rd mags, and Ar15 25rd mags a few months back. Don't own either of those two, but I figure it was worth having them in my possession early on just in case I need to be grandfathered in, lol
 
kgruber said:
If you look at magazines on eBay now...........for the most part they are ALL 10-rounders, regardless of what they actually are.
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The same exact PMAG can hold 30 rds of 5.56 or ten rounds of 458SOCOM or 450 Bushmaster.
 
Just got back from a weekend deer hunting in Tennessee. I was using a Ruger Mini 30, which is chambered for 7.62 x 39. Never saw a deer to shoot at. My brother deer hunted in Tennessee with a friend for years, mainly because you can use a high powered rifle. His caliber of choice was the 30 - 06, although he sometimes used other guns depending on what he had bought recently. I started hunting with him when I retired 5 years ago. My first year I used my AR 15 in .223 but never saw a deer. The next year I decided I wanted something a little more powerful, so I got an AR 10 in >308. Once again no deer. I decided the AR 10 was a little too heavy for my taste and ended up getting a Ruger Mini 14 to use the following year. I finally got a shot at a deer but missed. I later found out the scope had loosened and was off by a mile. Last year I used that same gun and shot two bucks with it.

The guys I hunt with mostly use the 30 - 06 for deer. I am keeping my eyes open for a bolt action rifle in .308 and Rossi has a lever action rifle in .44 magnum that could be used in Ohio. Most of the shots we take are around 100-125 yards.
 
so, you like taking your gun for a walk in the woods?

;)
 
Just back a week ago from my annual hunting trip to upstate NY. If anyone was monitoring the weather you might have seen it being dumped on with snow. It was white out conditions on the way to the Syracuse airport for the flight home. I was unsuccessful but it was because I’m looking for the buck to hang on the wall. I had opportunities for smaller bucks but chose to let them grow for next year.
 
For 100-150 yds out, and in the brush. The old lever action like 30-30, and 45-70 is hard to beat. But ammo for the 45-70 is getting hard to find.
 
Just as an update to the thread, I decided to go with an LR308 (AR-10) and build it up on my own. It's probably going to be a range gun rather than an outright hunting rifle as originally intended, but with a bipod/tripod it would probably do well for hogs or stationary (sitting in a blind) hunting. I have all of the components after trying to find some deals here and there, but I bought mostly mid-tier/high-tier stuff for the items that matter (barrel, BCG, trigger). Here's a pic of the dry-fit before I take it to get a Cerakote design on it. Haven't decided on the optic yet, but leaning towards something like a NightForce NXS 5.5-22x56 or Vortex Viper 5-25x50.

I figured I might want to get plenty of practice at the range with a decent optic for 100-500yds and being able to learn with that before going with a lighter hunting-specific bolt gun.

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I run a Vortex Diamondback 4-16x44 FFP with the MRAD reticle on my 6.5C rifle. Great optic at a great price; I use MRAD reticles as a standard across all my rifles, but you may find it easier to find a .308 BDC reticle unless you intend to branch into other calibers later.

I prefer fixed focal plane when shooting various ranges beyond 100 yds because with a second focal plane optics, the reticle hashmarks are only calibrated at the highest magnification. Might as well just get a fixed-power optic in my mind.
 
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