Any good landing tips while on final?

You say you flare a bit too soon? Have you ever smashed the gear onto the runway from not flaring? Or flaring too late? If not, then flare later next time and the time after that, etc. until you get it! But ask your CFI.
 
Whitney said:
Definitely this.

Many focus way too close in front of them.

If you are driving down the highway at landing speeds, do you only focus 100' or 200' in front of your car? The answer is no, you're looking way down the highway.
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Definitely this…I need to get my eyes to the end of the runway…
 
WDD said:
Most bad landings I've made is because I added extra corrections that weren't needed because there was nothing wrong. So resist the temptation to make things better in the round out and flare to make thing better - and they will be.
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good advice. Thanks.
 
SkyChaser said:
I struggled with starting my flare too high just like you are, and I was following all the tricks - looking way down the runway, etc. Two things helped - one, I got a cushion to sit on so I had better visibility. I'm only a few inches over 5', so I couldn't actually see over the nose of the Archer I was flying until I got the cushion. Being able to see helped a lot, and something you want to fix if you are short like me. The other thing that helped was using my peripheral vision. There is a moment as you come down close to the runway when the runway seems to widen and flatten out of the corner of your eye. I started waiting until that moment to begin my flare/pitch up, and I have yet to flare too high since! :)
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Racerx said:
70 knots on final seems a touch fast for a warrior. I had trouble at first too. Being afraid to get too close to Vso. Really nailing the speed helps that ground effect balloo and stall that I (and sounds like you as well) initially had trouble with.
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"The airplane should be trimmed to an initial approach speed of about 70 KIAS with a final approach speed of 63 KIAS with flaps extended."
 
Pinecone said:
"The airplane should be trimmed to an initial approach speed of about 70 KIAS with a final approach speed of 63 KIAS with flaps extended."
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That airplane has a flaps-extended stall speed of 44 knots. Approaching at 70 means you're at 1.6 Vso, when the old general rule-of-thumb was 1.3 Vso. The restart Cessnas AFMs also have similarly inflated approach speeds, and I can only presume it's because the OEMs are afraid of pilots stalling on final or something. And yet, high approach and landing speeds often result in damaged or wrecked airplanes. Bouncing, porpoising, ballooning and stalling, wheelbarrowing, runway overruns, burned-out brakes and blown tires. Lots of risks associated with too much speed.
 
Just got my ppl, had same issues with landing.

All in C-172. Any extra speed on final made my landings so much harder. Early/high flare, 1500' float down the runway while ballooning. Made me tense and landings much worse because I knew I was doing something wrong.

That something was control of airspeed and power. I would not use the throttle to correct my rate of sink, which made me carry extra airspeed which made it much harder to land.

Get the correct downwind/base/final speeds and stick them. Every time. Not 5kts over, not 1kt over.

If you're slow/sinking too much on final just add power - wayyyy easier than scrubbing airspeed on the runway. And if you're a few feet high and feel the plane about to thump into the runway, use your soft-field technique and add just a few rpms to cushion that sink.

I had some poor instruction previously and never flew in much wind or on bumpy days. My current instructor is 75, and we flew in whatever.

The more aggressive the headwind, the more it showed my lack of power and speed management on final. It finally clicked when I had to add what felt like far too much power on final to compensate for the headwind.

It wasn't like the car where you lift the throttle coming to a stop, you have to manage throttle all the way to touchdown. It seemed elementary after the realization, but was a real hangup for me.

Hope this novella made sense and best of luck!
 
FancyG said:
Get the correct downwind/base/final speeds and stick them. Every time. Not 5kts over, not 1kt over.

The more aggressive the headwind, the more it showed my lack of power and speed management on final. It finally clicked when I had to add what felt like far too much power on final to compensate for the headwind.

It wasn't like the car where you lift the throttle coming to a stop, you have to manage throttle all the way to touchdown. It seemed elementary after the realization, but was a real hangup for me.
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One can adjust the glideslope to land in stronger headwinds. Nothing says that you have to maintain the same glide angle no matter what. If the wind is strong, stay higher until you're closer to the runway, then cut the power and use attitude to govern airspeed. The airplane will reach the runway without having had to use a lot of power to beat the wind.

It takes practice, but there is another benefit to it. Someday, maybe, when your engine packs up and the only landing option is a small field not far away but upwind, attitude flying can get you there.


FancyG said:
I had some poor instruction previously and never flew in much wind or on bumpy days. My current instructor is 75, and we flew in whatever.
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Yup. Primacy matters. Poor instruction is not only a waste of money and time; it takes more money and time to correct the ingrained bad habits.

FancyG said:
Get the correct downwind/base/final speeds and stick them. Every time. Not 5kts over, not 1kt over.
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I used to tell my students that the landing started way back on downwind. Sloppiness there carries forward to add to whatever further sloppiness the pilot inserts into the base and final legs. One of the BIGGEST mistakes a pilot can make is to dive at the runway when he /she finds him/herself too high. It doesn't work. It just results in excess speed that is then carried into ground effect, usually too far down the runway already. Either an aggressive slip, or raising the nose to kill airspeed and getting more sink, is the way to fix that. One needs to fool with that stuff at altitude, especially the low airspeed sink stuff. I taught it in taildragger training; it helped the students understand not only the use of drag to get lower, but that trying to stretch the glide by raising the nose is useless. One can get the airplane well down, then lower the nose and recover the airspeed you need for the flare. It should be done with a CFI first, one that knows about this stuff and isn't afraid of a 1.2 Vso or something.
 
Mxfarm said:
especially if your fast.
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If I bounce a landing I will usually go around. With a small bounce and enough runway I add a touch of power and make it a three pointer (tail wheel).
 
Learn what the view on final looks like when both airspeed and descent rate are proper and then don't look at the airspeed indicator.

Covering the ASI on downwind is SOP for me when I see a pilot chasing airspeed and descent rate. I did it just the other day with a transitioning pilot. His second lesson in a new type. Was struggling to get it right so I covered the offending instruments. Pulled off the sticky just before it was time to flare. Exactly in target. Not one knot more or less.
 
Don't over control. Many learners are constantly moving the ailerons & elevator. I accuse them of trying to wear out the hinges. One you have a stabilized approach established make very small corrections but only as needed. Of course, shifty winds with changing velocities require more control input.
 
saddletramp said:
Don't over control. Many learners are constantly moving the ailerons & elevator.
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Everyone’s different. I recall my primary instructor’s frustration at my undercontrolling. I was apparently always trying to gently nudge the plane’s controls to get the desired performance and failing. Though perhaps not the best instructing technique, I still remember him grabbing the controls from me on final and yelling, “Dammit Benson, look at what I can make the airplane do!” and horsing the controls around dramatically. What I had to get over was my desire to be smooth on the controls and just do whatever it takes.

I guess I’d rather see a student a little jerky on the controls and accurate at first than smooth and all over the place. Easier to add smoothness to accuracy than accuracy to smoothness, IMHO. But, yes, both over- and undercontrolling may need to be addressed early on.
 
Here's the advice I give. Bear in mind I'm not a CFI, but this is what finally made landings "click" for me. Don't "flare". Get the airplane a couple of feet over the runway and try not to let it land. Try to hold it off the ground and not let the wheels touch. You'll fail, of course, but the idea is to fail gracefully. As you get slower you'll need to pull the nose up higher, and you'll sink onto the runway since you have no power. The flare occurs not as something you do on purpose, it occurs as you try to hold the wheels off the runway.

I spent hours and hours trying to time the flare just right, and what I finally figured out was that every time the wind speed or direction, amount of fuel or weight carried, or anything else changes, so does the precise point where that flare needs to happen for a nice smooth touchdown.

So, don't think of the "flare" as something you do; it's something that happens naturally. Hope that idea helps. Oh, and do this at one or two feet, not ten or twenty. That part is pretty important too.
 
saddletramp said:
Don't over control. Many learners are constantly moving the ailerons & elevator. I accuse them of trying to wear out the hinges. One you have a stabilized approach established make very small corrections but only as needed. Of course, shifty winds with changing velocities require more control input.
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I get a queasy feeling when I see these YouToob pilots landing, and it looks as if they're in some kind of tree-cutting contest while they land.
 
Dan Thomas said:
...
I used to tell my students that the landing started way back on downwind. Sloppiness there carries forward to add to whatever further sloppiness the pilot inserts into the base and final legs. One of the BIGGEST mistakes a pilot can make is to dive at the runway when he /she finds him/herself too high. It doesn't work. It just results in excess speed that is then carried into ground effect, usually too far down the runway already. Either an aggressive slip, or raising the nose to kill airspeed and getting more sink, is the way to fix that. One needs to fool with that stuff at altitude, especially the low airspeed sink stuff. I taught it in taildragger training; it helped the students understand not only the use of drag to get lower, but that trying to stretch the glide by raising the nose is useless. One can get the airplane well down, then lower the nose and recover the airspeed you need for the flare. It should be done with a CFI first, one that knows about this stuff and isn't afraid of a 1.2 Vso or something.
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I used that technique right to the edge once, in a cub with an instructor who'd been flying cubs for 30+ years. I was never taught it. I was too high, slowed down almost to buffet, lost some altitude, then nose down to pickup speed. This is starting about 80-100'. He may have been covering, but didn't touch the controls, and didn't say a word until we were on the ground. Then he asked, more or less "where the hell did you come up with that?" And I really didn't know. It sounds like great learning exercise, but I think I'd reserve it for calm wind days. If we got a 5-10 mph gust from behind, I'm not sure I'd be writing this right now.

Thinking back, I think what I did was remember that in slips I did learn to slow way down, to the point of near stall, and that absolutely will increase descent rate. So I was doing that, but without entering into the slip, because I'd never entered one that low before. I used half the technique. In a cub, full sized wing anyway, if you're in a slip that works great, but I'd be cautious practicing it without a CFI, because it's a whole different feeling, and the airspeed indicator isn't going to be much help to you.

CFI's don't get paid enough...
 
Me personally use the compass as a reference, I know when the runway is about the top of the compass is time to flare (not to transition).
 
I’m not sitting through 20-plus minutes of some guy’s clickbait video to see what the “one thing” might, in his opinion, be. Is it the same “one thing” the gut doctor urges everyone to avoid? Or the same “one weird trick” that … oh, never mind.
 
DaleB said:
I’m not sitting through 20-plus minutes of some guy’s clickbait video to see what the “one thing” might, in his opinion, be. Is it the same “one thing” the gut doctor urges everyone to avoid? Or the same “one weird trick” that … oh, never mind.
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Me neither ...
 
Do what your instructor has been telling you. There is no way a total stranger can be of more value than your instructor sitting beside you. You have to figure this out by practice....and more practice.
 
Dan Gordon said:
I'm right at the point of soloing, but am having an issue on final. When I'm about to land I have a tendency to overcorrect and rather than tease the plane down to the ground by holding the nose, I flare a bit too soon. Any good tips on maintaining the right nose attitude so i don't bounce the plane or balloon. I'm flying a Piper Warrior, I have good speed control, usually at 70 Knots on final.
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Trim, trim trim
 
Are you shifting your focus forward as you near touchdown? Fly it a little longer and just pitch as it sinks. Warriors are great.
 
The one thing I've found that helps is to watch how the runway widens as you descend. At the proper flare height, its widening speed will increase dramatically. At that point, gently apply back pressure to try to stop the descent, but not balloon, either. This is assuming you aren't dragging it in. If you're dragging it in, try not to scrape the landing gear off with the fence. As the plane slows, you'll need to pull the nose up some to stop the descent, and still try not to balloon.

As you slow, the rudder and aileron inputs will need to be increased to achieve the same effects
 
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