Have you read "Buying and Owning Your Own Airplane" by James E Ellis? It is a really good read with good evaluations of dozens of different types. It helped me when I was looking.
Another "What plane to buy" thread
- Thread starter Spacedoc
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My 2 cents- 182RG turbo. More than 100k but still a good price point(150kish). Less worry about DA, can be set up for whatever avionics you wish. Even large NA engines will be affected by altitude and temp. Plus the speed is more than fine for your mission. Forget all the "182s are boring" nonsense. You aren't competing in aerobatics, not much difference between GA aircraft in point to point flying other than getting to a 45 deg bank a hair of a second quicker.
schmookeeg
En-Route
Your airplane wants and needs are gonna change profoundly between 20 and 200 hours, I can't imagine it makes any sense to buy yet, without taking rides in about 5 or 6 different types. Particularly at the height of the market, which this surely is. Next year, the twin nutpunches of soaring insurance and market losses may conspire to discount everything with wings by like 20%.
I missed whether you were in NoSoCal or SoSoCal, but if your're by San Diego, consider a flying club like PlusOne for a year, and try everything they've got. The "right" plane may be clear as day once you've flown it.
I missed whether you were in NoSoCal or SoSoCal, but if your're by San Diego, consider a flying club like PlusOne for a year, and try everything they've got. The "right" plane may be clear as day once you've flown it.
Yep, very good advice. I plan on doing exactly that- trying different planes to figure out what I do and don't like, and getting a feel for what my true "mission" ends up being. All the same, I find it useful (and fun) to think about this now even though it's admittedly a bit of armchair quarterbacking.
I'm in LA so there are plenty of opportunities to find a variety of planes to rent once I get my ticket. I'm not sure if there's a club up here with quite the variety of PlusOne all under one roof, though.
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
Yeah, I can't tell you how many people who's jaws drop when I tell them I cruise climb at 105 KIAS and still do 500 fpm. Vy for my Tiger is basically the same as my Bonanza.
The R182 is so much better than the fixed versions. I prefer them to 210s.
There is no club like Plus One anywhere but Plus One.
Jim Carpenter
Line Up and Wait
Your initial mission description is nearly exactly the 182, though I get the sentiment that they're not very exciting (but, at my stage of my aviation career, my job is to do everything I can to avoid any excitement in an airplane!)
The suggestions for Bonanza, Mooney, etc., are worthwhile, but as a (soon to be) new low-time pilot, you should get some idea of insurance costs, some of the higher-performance retractables may come with pretty high premiums for you right now.
The suggestions for Bonanza, Mooney, etc., are worthwhile, but as a (soon to be) new low-time pilot, you should get some idea of insurance costs, some of the higher-performance retractables may come with pretty high premiums for you right now.
Juliet Hotel
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Disagree. Lots of people buy sporty BMW's and the like even though they will never take them on a track or otherwise drive them any faster or more aggressively than they would drive a pickup truck. The 182 is a fine airplane, but it flies like a truck. And one need not be flying aerobatics or anything close to aerobatics in order to prefer to fly something that handles a bit differently in the air.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Which is EXACTLY what you should have for a first aircraft.
The 182 isn't the best airplane at anything, but it's pretty damn good at EVERYTHING.
It'll get you into the next speed class above the trainers, which will get you anywhere you want to go in a reasonable amount of time (I landed in ~30-35 states in one flying out of Wisconsin)... But it won't be fast or temperamental enough to get you into trouble.
It'll get you in and out of high DA (I took off from KLXV with a DA of 12,200 feet...) but doesn't have turbos or retracts to maintain. Speaking of maintenance, it's harder to find a mechanic that HASN'T worked on a 182 than one that has, and it's mechanically relatively simple so it's a very easy bird to maintain, which is good for your first experience in ownership.
It'll get you in and out of backcountry strips, grass, whatever, wherever. It'll allow you to "spread your wings" in many ways in your early flying years and find the niches of aviation that appeal to you the most... At which point the 182 is a piece of cake to sell if you decide that there's a different bird that fits that newly-found mission better.
Tantalum
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None of that is wrong, or would I disagree with it. It just has no real sex appeal for me. Flying is part pragmatic, but part romantic. Otherwise we'd all be flying the same thing.
UngaWunga
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So you fly biplanes?
AA5Bman
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I'm stickin' with my story. The Tiger is a pig at high DA. It's not a high-lift, heavy-hauling kinda plane, it's a "go fast and efficiently" plane, and something has to give.
Caramon13
Pattern Altitude
Maybe also consider what's currently available on the market? There aren't many Tigers for sale right now. You can always find a 182, tons to pick from. Which means more haggle room.
RV's are hit and miss too..
RV's are hit and miss too..
Juliet Hotel
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Stated mission is rarely more than 2 seats occupied, rarely more than normal baggage, operations in an out of high density airports once in a while and wants to go faster than a typical 172 if possible. A 182 would work but the ability to carry a load of anvils (182's claim to fame) is not needed. The 182 should do ok flying from high strips, but almost any airplane will work ok for those operations so as normal precautions are taken. I'd probably be looking at a good Cardinal which should work just as well as a 182 for 95% of the mission but it would be more comfortable and burn less fuel doing it.
Tantalum
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Some of them are sexy, but they're in a specialty group
In my eyes, talking typical single engine only, 1-6 place, in order of sexiest to least. Basically, how likely am I to keep turning around walking away from it on the ramp. If they're not on the list I don't care enough to judge them or I forgot (what does that say?)
-C190/195
-Piper Comanche
-Navion
-let's leave some distance
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-okay, rest of list:
-Mooney J
-Bonanza V35
-Ercoupe
-Cirrus g3 or higher SRXX series
-TTx
-Socata Trinidad/Tobago
-Rest of the Bonanza line.. I know sacrilege, but I don't like how far back they "lean" on the ramp
-Cirrus g1/g2 SRXX (they sit too low, not enough ramp presence)
-Tiger
-Yak 18T (fine, less typical)
-C210 (the ones that look like this)
-The PA28/32 versions can all be lumped here..
-C177
-C210 (all the other ones)
-C182
-C172
Tantalum
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^that is based *entirely* on looks. With no consideration for performance, etc. Yes. I also judge books by their covers.
*But, the cool part is, if we factor in performance, a strong case could be made for the top 2-3 on there to stay at the top 3
*But, the cool part is, if we factor in performance, a strong case could be made for the top 2-3 on there to stay at the top 3
schmookeeg
En-Route
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
It really depends how you set the plane up. Lots of ways to get more power.
Did you just say to 99.95% of the forum that their ladies are uggo?
172s are awful
AA5Bman
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Well fine, but once we go down the mods route...
I actually think a Tiger would be a pretty good choice for the majority of OP's use. Partially because it's a great first plane - simple, cheap, easy to maintain. Plane ownership (especially first plane ownership) is more than just performance/capability considerations. That said, I think he needs to be realistic about what to expect, and shouldn't gloss over that the Tiger's weakness is it's DA performance and hauling ability. If that's okay, then great. The 182's performance will not be great at Mammoth in the summer either, but I pretty much wouldn't worry about flying a 182 with three and bags and fuel to fly to San Diego whereas that's (almost) a non-starter in the Tiger. It was a non-starter for me when I owned a Tiger and flew to Mammoth (a lot).
Tantalum
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N1120A
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3 + bags and tabs on KMMH-KMYF is still an hour reserves in a Tiger
ChemGuy
Cleared for Takeoff
Anyone say Bellanca Super Viking yet?
Or Cardinal?
I know the usual answer is some form of 182, Bonanza or Mooney...but man there are a lot of other planes out there...
Or Cardinal?
I know the usual answer is some form of 182, Bonanza or Mooney...but man there are a lot of other planes out there...
AA5Bman
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I’m missing your point. I’d be careful taking off from there with 2 (total, not passengers) and fuel to tabs. My wife and I used to do this trip a lot before kids, and in the summer with she and I and fuel to tabs, would have to circle to climb out and it was about as much as I’d want to ask from the plane. And that was typically at about 8-9 in the morning.
Tantalum
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pressurization is nice, one of our board members had a pressurized one and flew it all over the country for 20 years, loved itI prefer the ones that look like this (as long as I'm not paying for MX)
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yet, you put the Cardinal below the PA28. I think you need to get your eyes checked.
And that's exactly why you want something that's very common - That makes it much easier to maintain, buy, and sell. Owning an airplane is a skill unto itself, and I would hate to have someone who's new to GA and excited about it get run out of it by buying an airplane that requires support from a type club, knowledgeable mechanics and instructors, all of which may be scattered across the country, and have an experience that either sours them on GA or ends up as such a money pit they can't afford it any more.
When it comes to learning how to own an airplane, common and boring are your friends...
Which is why nobody has said Super Viking yet.
mr_happyland
Pre-takeoff checklist
OK. How much you got?
pilotod
Pre-takeoff checklist
I've got enough. Present your product.
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
Yet, you put the Cardinal below the PA28. I think you need to get your eyes checked.
Cardinals are not good looking - no Cessna high wing without a radial engine is. That isn't to say Cardinals aren't nice performers - they definitely are.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Disagree... The cardinal is the sexiest flat-engine high-wing there is, and certainly more attractive than the lowly, boring Cherokee.
mr_happyland
Pre-takeoff checklist
I have to agree. I flew a Cardinal for 8 years and always thought it was a sleek looking airframe, especially compared to most other cessnas. That said, I’ll take a low-wing almost any day.