Another FF + iPad question

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Mooneymayhem

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Mooneymayhem
Hey everybody
I'm currently looking to buy an iPad mini 6 to pair with Foreflight. The general consensus is to buy one equipped as a cellular model to get the internal GPS positioning feature. I won't be using the cellular feature for anything else except for GPS positioning. Will Foreflight alone show traffic and weather as well, or will I need to purchase an external receiver (Sentry or similar)?
If I need to purchase an external receiver, there's no sense in buying an iPad that's cellular equipped, correct?
Thank you!
 
Unless the battery in your Sentry goes dead, or you reach in your flight bag and it's not there.
No, FF will not show traffic or weather without external help
 
Got it, thank you for the clear answer!
 
I use a mini and FF - got the mini without cellular/gps, and use a Sentry as a GPS and ADSB in source. If I want connectivity for the mini on the ground where Wifi isn't available I tether it to my cell phone
 
I recommend the iPad without cellular and using Sentry instead. Been using it for 3 years and the battery life is amazing.
Perhaps use the money from cellular savings to increase the size of the HD (I only use my iPads for ForeFlight and the smaller one is constantly at max hard disk usage when I download multiple states charts/plates/etc).
Just my 0.02$
 
This topic comes up frequently and my answer is always the same. Don’t get the cellular version and spend your money on something else—extra HD space would be good.
I’m on my fifth iPad now and have always used an external GPS, Stratux, and now a Sentry (because of the CO monitor function). I’ve never needed the cellular function.
The ADSB tower is on a mountain near my field so I can get traffic and weather on the ground. If I need more than that on the ground, I have a cell phone that can pull up weather on the ground from AWC.
 
"Need?" No. "May prefer?" Maybe. That's up to you.

FWIW, I use my iPad for much more than aviation. It's my everyday tablet and I haven't taken my laptop on vacation or a trip for years. Even used it professionally before I retired. If you use it as generally as that, you "may" want the cellular version for its mobile network capability. Or you "may" want it so there's a GPS signal capability backup In flight If other methods fail.

I've been a Foreflight/iPad user for a dozen years. Never a cellular iPad. Haven't missed not having it (phone Hotspot when WiFi not available and even that less and less every year). But my choices don't have to be yours,
 
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I'm in the cellular camp; never had an iPad without it, as I want to be able to just pull it out and the internet works without any extra fuss. But I am filing IFR pretty much everywhere I go too, and have XM weather and traffic in the panel.
 
I've had two iPads with cellular and now one without. I can't tell a difference.

But honestly, since I got an iPhone 13 Pro Max, I use the iPad less and less.
 
I have both an iPad 9 and a Mini 6. Both are cellular.

Originally, I did not have a SIM in either, but found it is nice to have to flight planning and weather before I fire up the airplane.
 
My mini-6 is non-cellular. If I had to buy another one I would definitely get a cellular enabled one for the reasons @Pinecone mentioned.
 
Mooneymayhem said:
Hey everybody
I'm currently looking to buy an iPad mini 6 to pair with Foreflight. The general consensus is to buy one equipped as a cellular model to get the internal GPS positioning feature. I won't be using the cellular feature for anything else except for GPS positioning. Will Foreflight alone show traffic and weather as well, or will I need to purchase an external receiver (Sentry or similar)?
If I need to purchase an external receiver, there's no sense in buying an iPad that's cellular equipped, correct?
Thank you!
Click to expand...
Do you own your own plane? If so, what is it equipped with in terms of avionics, and specifically connectivity to the iPad?
Do you fly other planes frequently that are differently equipped?
Do you have a smartphone with tethering capability?

I have always had cellular iPads, and I have purchased a cellular plan for them ($30/mo unlimited). Nice for filing flight plans and checking weather at remote airports, provides a GPS for the iPad that can either be used as primary or as a backup when you're connected to other devices, etc...

However, a few months ago AT&T finally killed off my grandfathered $30/mo unlimited data plan, and they made it a pain in the ass to sign up for a new one, so I just didn't. All of the aircraft I fly on a regular basis have the FlightStream 510 in their various Garmin boxes, so I get GPS, ADS-B traffic and weather, and attitude supplied to the iPad that way. I can tether it to my phone if I need to file a flight plan or check weather...

*If* you can tether *and if* you own an airplane with something like a GTX-345 that provides position and ADS-B to the iPad, then you really don't need the cellular iPad and you also don't need a Sentry type device. If you rent, or own an airplane without the ability to supply position and ADS-B to the iPad, you might want to get a Sentry. If you really want the iPad to have a backup GPS source, buy the Cellular one (you don't need a cell plan). If you don't have a phone and plan that allow tethering, get the cellular one and a data plan.
 
Get the cellular version. Why would one not want to have am onboard GPS just because? In flight use ship’s power so battery delta is none since it’s powered. Note that Sentry, if part of the solution, will tuck into a Bose A20 headset bag very nicely outside of an earcup.
 
Steamflyer said:
Get the cellular version. Why would one not want to have am onboard GPS just because?.
Click to expand...

$

Price difference is $150 IIRC, plus monthly cellular service fees. That’s a lot for the convenience of not connecting it to iPhone which you like have anyway.
 
I have had four iPads without cellular, and never once needed it. I fly five different airplanes, and it flawlessly connects to the ADSB in each of them. I also have a Bad Elf gps, but haven't used it for the last couple of years.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
$

Price difference is $150 IIRC, plus monthly cellular service fees. That’s a lot for the convenience of not connecting it to iPhone which you like have anyway.
Click to expand...
The cellular is needed only to have an on-board GPS receiver - actually buying the service is optional.
 
I vote for cellular version…I have an adsb source for location in my plane, but then I often jump in my buddies plane as a safety pilot and use my own iPad.
Plus I use mine for flight planning, filling ifr flight plans etc.
 
I've had both non cell and cell Ipads. I prefer cell for the ease of use when I'm on the ground looking at weather filing flight plans etc. Just yesterday I filed for our quick flight home while we were eating lunch. I like the fact I don't have to connect to wifi everyplace I go unless I want to. In the air I connect to my GTX-345. Could I do with a non cell and use my phone on the ground. Yes I could, but I'm spoiled and its also tax deductible mostly I'm spoiled...:cornut:
 
midlifeflyer said:
LOL! It's just Foreflight's browser interface.
Click to expand...
I've been a Garmin Pilot/diehard Android phone guy that got an iPad for flying. Pretty much never carry my iPad when I'm not flying. This doesn't look as advanced as I'd like, but not being a FF subscriber won't let me see a terrible lot either. (And already used up my free trial awhile ago). FF has a number of cool features lacking from GP that have me so close to the tipping point, all it would take is a decent bit of polish on a mobile web interface (mobile-oriented pages without the constant need to zoom & pan), and I might just jump...
And nope, not getting an iPhone.
 
Stan Bergey said:
I've been a Garmin Pilot/diehard Android phone guy that got an iPad for flying. Pretty much never carry my iPad when I'm not flying. This doesn't look as advanced as I'd like, but not being a FF subscriber won't let me see a terrible lot either. (And already used up my free trial awhile ago). FF has a number of cool features lacking from GP that have me so close to the tipping point, all it would take is a decent bit of polish on a mobile web interface (mobile-oriented pages without the constant need to zoom & pan), and I might just jump...
And nope, not getting an iPhone.
Click to expand...
The Foreflight web interface is for subscribers. It's useless in flight and it's not optimized (or even intended) for a mobile device. You have to "Get Desktop Site" with its downside. But you can do things like plan flights, file flight plans, get briefings, define aircraft, make logbook entries, get track logs. Good enough for my purposes.

I'm curious what you are looking at as the features leading you to think of switching from Pilot. I'm a EFB geek and a few cool features aside, I don't see that much separating FF from Pilot's iOS version. The Android version of Pilot may be...well...less feature rich, but at least there is one so you phone is covered. I'm a diehard Android phone user - every time I get a new phone I think about switching to an iPhone (last time was about a month ago) but I don't. I stick with ForeFlight because I've been using it for 12 years - the interface and flow is too natural to give up (at least until I stop flying IFR), even though the Garmin Pilot interface is damn good.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The Foreflight web interface is for subscribers. It's useless in flight and it's not optimized (or even intended) for a mobile device. You have to "Get Desktop Site" with its downside. But you can do things like plan flights, file flight plans, get briefings, define aircraft, make logbook entries, get track logs. Good enough for my purposes.

I'm curious what you are looking at as the features leading you to think of switching from Pilot. I'm a EFB geek and a few cool features aside, I don't see that much separating FF from Pilot's iOS version. The Android version of Pilot may be...well...less feature rich, but at least there is one so you phone is covered. I'm a diehard Android phone user - every time I get a new phone I think about switching to an iPhone (last time was about a month ago) but I don't. I stick with ForeFlight because I've been using it for 12 years - the interface and flow is too natural to give up (at least until I stop flying IFR), even though the Garmin Pilot interface is damn good.
Click to expand...
One of the biggest ones for me would be FF's acquisition and integration of JetFuelX, which was a website that aggregated data from all of the major contract fuel programs (CAA, AvFuel, Everest, WorldFuel, etc). Once you tell FF what contract programs you/the company you fly for are enrolled in, it will display all the relevant contract fuel prices where they're available. This negates the need to hunt through various websites in order to plan fuel stops around contract fuel FBOs, as contract prices are only available behind logins for the specific contract program.
For the turbine market, FF also recently released Runway Analysis, which works in conjunction with data from the aircraft AFM, integrated W&B, and local weather to analyze the runway requirements for your specific plane & conditions.
And when it comes to after-the-flight debriefing/flight profile tools, there are more options available to FF flight profile data than GP.
 
Depending which foreflight subscription you have, you’ll have access to different data sets. Some data is provided by ADSB-in (which is either through your panel if equipped or via an external source such as Sentry, Garmin ADSB, etc), and some data is provided by cellular (that of course only updates when you have cell service - which depends on your location and altitude).

When you are connected to ADSB-in using Foreflight, click devices to see the different data sets and when they were last updated. Having only ADSB-in (without cellular) I believe you get things like cloud tops, radar weather, and traffic. You won’t have critical information such as updated weather at airports, TAF’s, cloud layers. I experienced this flying through areas without ADSB and without cellular, so it made go/no-go decisions more challenging having outdated data. You can also click the layers icon in foreflight while connected to ADSB-in and cellular and you’ll see different data sets and foreflight will specifically show (ADSB) next to ADSB data, you can therefore assume other data is provided by cellular or data download.

The cellular feature, getting a separate SIM card and plan, is kind of overkill. I do think having data is helpful so I’d probably do a WiFi hotspot with your mobile phone to get updated data to your iPad. With that being said, be mindful that some ADSB-in connect via WiFi and some connect via Bluetooth, so learn your setup first to make sure it works. Last thing you’d want is having two items needing WiFi and you have to keep swapping back and forth to get updated data.

With all that being said, I changed my panel mount and I just use my iPhone with foreflight, it has data (there are plenty of spots en-route that it kicks in and updates everything - for most flying) and it connects to ADSB-in, once you get the hang of it, works fine. Some people don’t like the smaller screen on the iPhone and that’s a fair comment. I also have my iPad in my flight bag but I rarely use it now. The iPhone foreflight is good enough for me.
 
Stan Bergey said:
One of the biggest ones for me would be FF's acquisition and integration of JetFuelX, which was a website that aggregated data from all of the major contract fuel programs (CAA, AvFuel, Everest, WorldFuel, etc). Once you tell FF what contract programs you/the company you fly for are enrolled in, it will display all the relevant contract fuel prices where they're available. This negates the need to hunt through various websites in order to plan fuel stops around contract fuel FBOs, as contract prices are only available behind logins for the specific contract program.
For the turbine market, FF also recently released Runway Analysis, which works in conjunction with data from the aircraft AFM, integrated W&B, and local weather to analyze the runway requirements for your specific plane & conditions.
And when it comes to after-the-flight debriefing/flight profile tools, there are more options available to FF flight profile data than GP.
Click to expand...
For turbine..yes...I can definitely see FF advantages in the market they are aiming many of their initiatives at.
 
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